Early Morning Empty Coaching Stock Moves

[Condor7]

I’ve noticed that particularly on an early morning (although this could apply anytime) there are many multiple unit positioning moves from one station to another. As an example 5C07 Harrogate to Knaresborough leaving Harrogate at 6.30am. Once at Knaresborough it forms the 2C09 at 06.55am back to Harrogate and onwards to Leeds.

Is there any reason why the 5C07 could not be used as a fare paying train, I would imagine it would be fairly lightly loaded but some income could be obtained for the journey?

 

[142094]

In some cases it may be tha case that there isn't a guard on the inbound working, and therefore it couldn't pick up passengers. Also some ECS movements are tightly timed so would not have time to stop at stations.

 

[30907]

Maybe because it runs just ahead of a passenger service and has to clear the down line at Knaresborough pronto?
And would it generate any new traffic?

 

[Toby Atkinson]

There is a last service from BIF to Millom which returns as empty stock for some reason? Millom isn’t a depot so the conductor has to come back on it

 

[robbeech]

These sorts of questions crop up from time to time.
The above answers are some of the reasons why it is like it is. To run it in passenger service they’d have to be 100% sure it would run on time and with a guard every day. Would the income generated by such a service be worth that commitment from the TOC?

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I’ve noticed that particularly on an early morning (although this could apply anytime) there are many multiple unit positioning moves from one station to another. As an example 5C07 Harrogate to Knaresborough leaving Harrogate at 6.30am. Once at Knaresborough it forms the 2C09 at 06.55am back to Harrogate and onwards to Leeds.

Is there any reason why the 5C07 could not be used as a fare paying train, I would imagine it would be fairly lightly loaded but some income could be obtained for the journey?

Units stabled overnight at Harrogate are not necessarily at a platform, ie a number stable on the centre road. It may be that 5C07 is normally formed from one of these and would therefore need to be shunted to a platform prior to running as a public service. Quite possibly not worthwhile in terms of additional crew duty time to do this.

 

[cuccir]

There is a last service from BIF to Millom which returns as empty stock for some reason? Millom isn’t a depot so the conductor has to come back on it

Is there? I don't see it on RealTimeTrains

Edit
Sorry my mistake, I thought you were saying that there's a late service which runs as ECS from BIF to Millom!

 

[MikeHoward940]

Check out the following site:

www.charlewoodhouse.co.uk/rail/liverail

This is a good site for checking on both freight and passenger services.

Cheers Mike

 

[Condor7]

Although I used the Harrogate to Knaresborough as an example, let’s look at that one in light of the above comments.

Unless it is picking up a full crew at Knaresborough it is likely to have the full crew to start with.

There is a 12 minute gap before the next train at Knaresborough but if that was too tight why not set off from Harrogate a few minutes earlier?

If the unit is stored overnight on the centre road, or even in the sidings, is it such a difficult job to run it into the platform, after all it is only a two coach multiple unit? Or even stable it at the platform, there are no overnight trains before it. Even better take down the picket fence by the bay platform and use that.

As far as the question of how well it would be used, has it ever been tried?

Just my thoughts, but it would be interesting to find out.

 

[robbeech]

By full crew you will of course mean 1 person, the guard. It’s a perfectly sensible assumption that the guard will travel from Harrogate and doesn’t live at
Knaresborough.

There are a couple of things to note though. Drivers and guards don’t work the same shift patterns and same number of hours between breaks. If a guard starts working a train in service half an hour earlier this might completely shake up the rota.
The other thing to note in this example is that there is 2C00 following behind it now in service slightly earlier than the old 2C02. I think in this instance running a train 15 minutes (now less than 10) minutes earlier in service with the potential headaches it causes isn’t going to be favourable.

 

[Southernrover]

Check out the following site:

www.charlewoodhouse.co.uk/rail/liverail

This is a good site for checking on both freight and passenger services.

Cheers Mike

Website doesn't seem to exist.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Website doesn't seem to exist.

Seems to work if you simply do http://charlwoodhouse.co.uk/