East Anglia MK 3's look grubby

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by cambsy, 12 Nov 2011.

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  1. cambsy

    cambsy On Moderation

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    Been on National Express East Anglia and immediately thought the mk 3 stock looked grubby on outside,the running northbound was late and quite a lot of services were late,think line could do with upgrade like Chiltern,i think last upgrade was when 100 mph was introduced,I'm sure 110 mph could be done now they have mk 3 stock,is there reason why it has lacked attention in terms of upgrade?
     
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  3. ginger

    ginger Member

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    the entire fleet is "grubby".......when they had a C3 a few years ago all they did was change the seat covers and a few panels.....they still have the incredibly uncomfortable IC70 original seats.....and then the added bonus of all the galvanic rust around the windows......

    they are due a C6 next year.....I doubt the Dutch or DAFT will actually pay for the internal rebuilds they desperately need!
     
  4. dk1

    dk1 Established Member

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    Chiltern is a quiet country branch line compared with the GEML. Any small delays soon have a huge knock on effect. 110mph will not happen. To intense a service with mixture of stopping, freight & Intercity & all AHBs would need conversion to CCTV at huge cost for just 10mph increase. Signalling was only updated a few years ago South of Colchester & nothing really wron North thereof.
     
  5. ginger

    ginger Member

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    whats the point of 110mph? the line is so congested south of Colchester it is pointless.....

    the money should be spent of desperately needed refurbs after 8 years of National Disgrace neglect!
     
  6. dk1

    dk1 Established Member

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    Exactly. However apart from a promised 'heavy' clean dont i dont expect very much to change til the 15yr franchise gets under way.
     
  7. ginger

    ginger Member

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    forgive me but when passengers pay through the nose is it too much to ask for a "clean" train.....even if it is tatty and unrefurbished?

    To me this is a basic......that NX cut or put to the bottom of the pile.....the new 2 1/2 yr franchise is a joke.....purely designed by DAFT/Ministers to get as much premium payment out of the East as they can.....

    However, the MKIIIs are due a C6 so they cant duck it.......will it be a minimalist "refresh" or a rebuild aka the "mallard" rebuild on East Coast?

    If they duck it and go cheap will that mean that they might actually order some new long distance EMUs for the Inter City service to Norwich? Makes sense.....get rid of the loco and DVT and add 2 extra coaches to each train!
     
  8. O L Leigh

    O L Leigh Established Member

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    It's RHTT season. These bad boys kick up a lot of crud with their high pressure hoses, so when you pass one you do get a liberal application of muck to the outside of the train. I hooked a couple of Cl315s together this week and one looked just like it had been driven through a ploughed field, but it was simply that the RHTT was around.

    NXEA has a very large fleet and probably not quite enough wash plants. The one at Ilford has recently been moved so that trains can be washed as they enter or leave the depot rather than it having to be a specific shunt move (which took time and tied up the yard neck when it was being done, thereby preventing any other movements between the shed and the yard) and the carriage sidings at Orient Way has a similar arrangement. I'm not sure what Clown Point's washing arrangements are, but on the WA the wash plants at Cambridge and Chingford require a specific shunt move which can be time consuming. Not every train is washed every day which isn't ideal, but then not every train visits a location with wash plant.

    What doesn't help matters much is that the old 'one' livery is beginning to wear quite badly and is starting to look tatty. The sooner the franchise changes and a properly reliverying scheme is put in place the better for all.

    O L Leigh
     
  9. bignosemac

    bignosemac Established Member

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    Clown Point? I like it! Was that deliberate? :lol:

    I do have a rose tinted fondness for IC70 seats. But only ones that have been maintained to a high standard.

    My recent experience of a Mk3 on NXEA (1st Class) was interesting. I pressed the button to recline the seat and the whole cushion under my butt slid off the frame and I was intimately acquainted with the carpet. Raised a laugh with my travelling companion. Just a shame no one had a video recording of me ending up on the floor. The £250 from 'You've Been Framed' would've come in handy!
     
    Last edited: 12 Nov 2011
  10. mralexn

    mralexn Member

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    im very sorry, but could you please explain what a C6 is? thanks :)
     
  11. ginger

    ginger Member

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    C6 is the heavy general overhaul.....usually carried out every 10 years.
     
  12. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I thought the various C overhauls were done on the basis of the mileage covered since the last one rather than the time between overhauls?
     
  13. ginger

    ginger Member

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    you are probably correct.....I was repeating what a Senior NX Manager told me......bound to be wrong then LOL
     
  14. Yew

    Yew Established Member

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    It could be based on milage, but the milage takes about 10 years to cover for regional stock, and intericty stock would have a higher milage, but with its higher speed takes around 10 years also

    Also could you give examples of some C3 and C6 refurbs?
     
  15. ginger

    ginger Member

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    this is a great example of what CAN be acheived............

    http://www.wabtecrail.co.uk/Wabtec_NXEC.pdf

    Do not be fooled by the NX livery......those penny pinching racketeers had NOTHING to do with the spec for this refurb......it was all decided by and contracted by GNER way before NX got hold of East Coast.....

    But it does go to show what NXEA did in the C3 6 years ago was way off the current standard! Cheapskates......
     
  16. Derbyshire Gra

    Derbyshire Gra Member

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    Not quite - C6 is a body repair which is carried out to a time periodicity. The scope can vary, but usually includes attention to things above the sole bar, including corrosion, windows, gangways, paint etc.

    A C4 is a mileage based exam for the running gear and mechanical components primarily below the solebar (eg bogies, brake gear, couplers) and is undertaken on completion of the prescribed number of miles operated.

    A C3 is a combination of a C4 and C6 undertaken simultaneously which occurs on a few fleets where mileage operated approximately equates to time between body overhauls.

    C2 and C1 are effectively half life or major rebuilds, whilst a C5 is unscheduled work. These classifications are rarely used now.

    The work on a C6 does NOT include interior work, although this is often undertaken in conjunction with a C6 programme. Interior work can be as great or as lilttle as the operator is prepared to pay for or deems necessary, hence the difference in levels between Major Refurbishments (GNER Mallard) and Refreshes (NX Mark IIIs).

    Hope this helps
     
  17. captainbigun

    captainbigun Member

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    NXEA Mk3s are undergoing C4X, not C6.
     
  18. ginger

    ginger Member

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    note to self.....do not take NXEA Management comments as true......I recall reading it in Rail a few editions ago.

    So, the next logical question is what will be involved in a C4X?
     
  19. mappman1000

    mappman1000 Member

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    Doubt anything major will happen until this mini franchise that starts in 2012, finishes!

    People constantly hack off NXEA for their operations on the Great Eastern, but they have to compete with a heck of alot of freight trains running infront of them, very poor condition wires and alot of cable thefts.
     
  20. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I don't know, according to Today's Railways the annoucement included expectations to:

    • Deep clean all rolling stock (except 379s), including all surfaces and floor coverings, toilets and lighting, with the interior of the 321s to be refreshed and the 17 321s from LM to be fitted with CCTV.
    • Cleaning and painting 141 stations
    • Free refreshments for first class passengers on London-Norwich and Stansted Express
    • New information desks at Liverpool Street, Norwich and Stansted Airport. And new information kiosks at various stations.
    • OYPAG to be extended (that's been discussed elsewhere on the forum)
    • 28 new TVMs across the network and introduction of online season ticketing.

    There were a few other bits and pieces including more parking at a few stations but those are the main bits. Seems an impressive list, though me thinks they'll have to get a shifty on to get the work on the rolling stock done in 29 months but certainly it seems like they don't plan on sitting around doing nothing at all.
     
  21. Pyromaniac

    Pyromaniac Member

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    Genuinely, I said wow when I saw the interior pic!

    Still I am yet another person who has to use NXEA every so often. Desipte the Mk3's looking rather old inside I do not dislike them and actually find the seating comfortable, although this could be down in part living on 321's and 360's otherwise :) .

    I am looking forward to all what is listed from this new 29 month franchise, the 321's do need some help inside. Strangely I travelled on one a few months ago and one complete back to back 3 seating row was missing from under the pantograph, didn't catch the number as I was tired and dragging a wheelie suitcase...and dodging rather irate commuters :D .

    Cheers

    PT
     
  22. RichW1

    RichW1 Member

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    It is an unfortunate fact that nothing can be done south of the line at Ipswich and possibly even Stowmarket; too busy and congested and no tracks to do anything with! North of Stowmarket you could clear the line for as fast as you like but for 35 odd miles, I'm not sure what difference 10mph would make. This coming from someone who finds speeds unacceptibly slow in this country yet even I think this line is at its limit!

    Without new track and vast sums spent which would in all honesty be better spent elsewhere on balance (not that it doesn't deserve upgrading, just limited budgets tell me cost opportunity of money, it would be better targeted at other places with much better results).

    I am sad though about all this; Great Eastern could and should be a higher speed intensive suburban railway and IC as far as Norwich. In the future the whole Essex/Suffolk corridor is looking like being one big low density metropolitan area and commuter flows are already packed to capacity. I just don't see what you could do that wouldn't break the bank? Unless someone has any smart ideas?
     
  23. tom1649

    tom1649 Member

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    I find it surprising that people find these so uncomfortable. I think they're the most comfortable seats around and should be retained where possible. Is it so difficult to design a modern seat which actually has some padding and isn't too high backed?
     
  24. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    Routing all of Felixstowes fright across via Ely would be a start. None of it should so much as enter the tunnels at Ipswich.

    Expensive/fantasy solutions? Four track from Liverpool Street to Norwich- with Crossrail using a third, dedicated pair of tracks as far as Shenfield. Fast lines to high-speed standards- in technological terms, it should be possible to have a Norwich-Ipswich-Liverpool Street fast service that takes about an hour. A well specced "varisty line" from Cambridge would help with distributing freight heading from Felixstowe to places to the south and west.
     
  25. captainbigun

    captainbigun Member

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    That's because some of this is already in progress and has been for some time. Abelio are going to do didly squat, in fact things might actually be worse. Next Roger Ford column will explain.
     
  26. Pugwash

    Pugwash Member

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    Double Deck trains for the GEML as far as Ipswich would be relatively cheap, if network rail had any foresight they would have done most of the work with the recent re-wire, but I doubt this is the case.
     
  27. Bungle73

    Bungle73 On Moderation

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    What about the loading gauge?
     
  28. Pugwash

    Pugwash Member

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    I have no idea what could be accomodated, something for the engineers to see what is possible.
     
  29. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Ah, I take it I've fallen foul of some rather extravagant spin then on the part of Abellio? Somewhat like the DfT announcing the arrival of new carriages for Northern which are in fact 20 year old 322s?

    My apologies in that case for painting a better picture than perhaps I should have.
     
  30. mappman1000

    mappman1000 Member

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    6 tracks to Shenfield? I bet the residents of east London who's houses back onto the tracks would be mighty pleased!
     
  31. RichW1

    RichW1 Member

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    I'm loving the fantasy GEML ideas, although the freight one does make sense. Of course the full East-West arc would be a god send for freight services and for passengers!

    By the way (I know off topic) but does anyone know why we have to have AC powered air-con making the mark 3's sound like whining commuter multiple units? Sounds awful and VERY annoying! Just wondered what the problem was with the old way?
     
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