Cheshire Bus News (was East Cheshire Bus News)

[Navigation Roa]

Why are Spath Lane and Wilmslow deemed worthy of capital letters in this posting but not the following:-
wythshenshawe (sic)
heald green (sic)
colshaw farm (sic)
lacy green (sic)....which I suppose is intended to be Lacey Green

I didn’t realise you had to be the bard to discuss regional bus travel...

 

[Navigation Roa]

Wilmslow and Handforth are both parts of Cheshire East. Heald Green is most certainly not, as those residents there who pay their local dues to Stockport will duly so attest.

Doesn’t the 88 and it’s split offs go through three local authority areas?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Doesn’t the 88 and it’s split offs go through three local authority areas?

None of which includes any part whatsoever of Heald Green as mentioned in your posting.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I didn’t realise you had to be the bard to discuss regional bus travel...

Regional bus travel discussion is not an excuse for the usage of poor phraseology.

 

[pemma]

Doesn’t the 88 and it’s split offs go through three local authority areas?

88 is a contracted service and the reason a lot of services now run Altrincham-Wilmslow-Knutsford-Macclesfield or Altrincham-Wilmslow-Knutsford then Knutsford-Northwich is because someone in the Cheshire East office played with a bean counter.

 

[pemma]

Wilmslow and Handforth are both parts of Cheshire East. Heald Green is most certainly not, as those residents there who pay their local dues to Stockport will duly so attest.

The fact that there's a council boundary between Heald Green and Wilmslow shouldn't affect how much demand there is for public transport between the two towns. However, the fact that they are in different council districts would likely make it harder for a contracted service to exist. Although, as there is already a train service between Wilmslow and Heald Green it means the chance of a bus service starting is severely reduced.

 

[pemma]

True but no one will get in to the habit of using any of these services when they keep chopping, changing and cancelling every month. Once people have faith in a regular punctual service they may use it.

Bus operators prefer those who need to use the bus to get to work, medical appointments, the shops etc. so will become regular passengers opposed to those who might decide an occasional trip to somewhere might make a change.

Saying they change every month is a over exaggerating a bit as operators have to give 8 weeks notice if they want to change or cancel a commercial service. Even the 130 Macclesfield to Manchester Airport will have run for almost 3 months when it gets withdrawn.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The fact that there's a council boundary between Heald Green and Wilmslow shouldn't affect how much demand there is for public transport between the two towns. However, the fact that they are in different council districts would likely make it harder for a contracted service to exist. Although, as there is already a train service between Wilmslow and Heald Green it means the chance of a bus service starting is severely reduced.

There is still (as far as I am aware) a 130 bus service from Heald Green, through Handforth, onto Wilmslow.

In addition to the train service from Manchester Piccadilly - Styal Line- Crewe that you mention above, the two elderly lady friends of my good lady wife use this service from Heald Green to Holmes Chapel (another part of Cheshire East) to visit friends in the McCarthy and Stone development there.

Perhaps you could assist, thinking of areas from our Cheshire East one to Heald Green that once existed, as I am sure that a service 379 from the Poynton area of Cheshire East to Heald Green, en route to another place, once ran quite some years ago but was deemed not to be financially viable.

 

[pemma]

Perhaps you could assist, thinking of areas from our Cheshire East one to Heald Green that once existed, as I am sure that a service 379 from the Poynton area of Cheshire East to Heald Green, en route to another place, once ran quite some years ago but was deemed not to be financially viable.

I don't really know much about past Poynton area bus services but I'm sure we have someone on this forum who's from Poynton.

 

[daodao]

I don't really know much about past Poynton area bus services but I'm sure we have someone on this forum who's from Poynton.

The main services serving Poynton used to be run by NWRCC and were quite comprehensive:

• 20/20A M/c (Chorlton St)-Stockport-Woodford (joint with M/c & Stockport Corporations)
• 7/8 Stockport-Macclesfield (via Adlington/Bollington)
• 32 M/C (LMS) to Higher Poynton via Southern Cemetery/Parrs Wood/Bramhall [I remember this route well as it passed very close to where I was brought up in South M/c]
• X1 Express M/c-Macclesfield-Derby (joint with Trent Motor Traction)

The only surviving service is a derivative of former route 8.

 

[martinsh]

The main services serving Poynton used to be run by NWRCC and were quite comprehensive:

• 20/20A M/c (Chorlton St)-Stockport-Woodford (joint with M/c & Stockport Corporations)
• 7/8 Stockport-Macclesfield (via Adlington/Bollington)
• 32 M/C (LMS) to Higher Poynton via Southern Cemetery/Parrs Wood/Bramhall [I remember this route well as it passed very close to where I was brought up in South M/c]
• X1 Express M/c-Macclesfield-Derby (joint with Trent Motor Traction)

The only surviving service is a derivative of former route 8.

I think the 32 became the 157 and was worked by Bullocks at one stage ?

 

[daodao]

I think the 32 became the 157 and was worked by Bullocks at one stage ?

NWRCC route 31 (not 32) became the 157, and is now the 42B.

Until its demise, NWRCC ran an extensive network of outer suburban and interurban services from M/c to surrounding suburbs and towns south and east of M/c. Very few now survive, particularly as through services from M/c. Those that do (current and former service numbers quoted) are

• the 180/184 (ex-NWRCC 10 and 14) & 181/182 (ex-NWRCC 2) up Oldham Road
• the 42B and 130 (ex-NWRCC 31 and 29) via Parrs Wood
• the Trans-Peak (ex-NWRCC X2, but diverted to Derby instead of Nottingham)
• the 253 (limited service inbound), 255 and 256 to Flixton (ex-NWRCC 12, 5 and 11 respectively); the 255 has been extended to Partington to replace ex-NWRCC 222.

 

[pemma]

NWRCC route 31 (not 32) became the 157, and is now the 42B.

Until its demise, NWRCC ran an extensive network of outer suburban and interurban services from M/c to surrounding suburbs and towns south and east of M/c. Very few now survive, particularly as through services from M/c. Those that do (current and former service numbers quoted) are

• the 180/184 (ex-NWRCC 10 and 14) & 181/182 (ex-NWRCC 2) up Oldham Road
• the 42B and 130 (ex-NWRCC 31 and 29) via Parrs Wood
• the Trans-Peak (ex-NWRCC X2, but diverted to Derby instead of Nottingham)
• the 253 (limited service inbound), 255 and 256 to Flixton (ex-NWRCC 12, 5 and 11 respectively); the 255 has been extended to Partington to replace ex-NWRCC 222.

I'm sure NWRCC operated a 130 and it transferred to Stevensons when the Macclesfield NWRCC services were sold off.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Perhaps you could assist, thinking of areas from our Cheshire East one to Heald Green that once existed, as I am sure that a service 379 from the Poynton area of Cheshire East to Heald Green, en route to another place, once ran quite some years ago but was deemed not to be financially viable.

Did anyone find out the name of the operator and the final destination of this service?

 

[Dentonian]

Bus operators prefer those who need to use the bus to get to work, medical appointments, the shops etc. so will become regular passengers opposed to those who might decide an occasional trip to somewhere might make a change.

Saying they change every month is a over exaggerating a bit as operators have to give 8 weeks notice if they want to change or cancel a commercial service. Even the 130 Macclesfield to Manchester Airport will have run for almost 3 months when it gets withdrawn.

Unfortunately, this has just been reduced back to 6 weeks (42 days) by the DfT - who with modern day Whitehall efficiency didn't tell anyone (Operators, LAs ...even VOSA!!!) until the day after it was implemented (24 April). This is presumably why this service is being withdrawn at seemingly short notice.

 

[pemma]

Unfortunately, this has just been reduced back to 6 weeks (42 days) by the DfT - who with modern day Whitehall efficiency didn't tell anyone (Operators, LAs ...even VOSA!!!) until the day after it was implemented (24 April). This is presumably why this service is being withdrawn at seemingly short notice.

Someone posted elsewhere that can only happen if they consult with the local authority over the change before submitting the request to the Traffic Commissioner.

Either way I don't think there's any requirement for the operator or local authority to publicise the change as soon as it's approved.

 

[Dentonian]

Someone posted elsewhere that can only happen if they consult with the local authority over the change before submitting the request to the Traffic Commissioner.

Either way I don't think there's any requirement for the operator or local authority to publicise the change as soon as it's approved.

True - but it is a practical nightmare. Not so much in this case - although it means publicity for the 130 will have to be produced before knowing if Arriva are changing theirs again in July or September - but it means the timescales for producing publicity are reduced by 14 days. This doesn't just apply to Paper Timetables, as I understand computerised Journey Planners have a cut off date of 19 days before the change. Thus the window is cut from 37 days to 23 days to produce timetables for the National JP sites, and don't forget in such as GM, there are an average of around 100 (and increasing!) changes every "change date".

 

[pemma]

True - but it is a practical nightmare. Not so much in this case - although it means publicity for the 130 will have to be produced before knowing if Arriva are changing theirs again in July or September - but it means the timescales for producing publicity are reduced by 14 days. This doesn't just apply to Paper Timetables, as I understand computerised Journey Planners have a cut off date of 19 days before the change. Thus the window is cut from 37 days to 23 days to produce timetables for the National JP sites, and don't forget in such as GM, there are an average of around 100 (and increasing!) changes every "change date".

Surely if the operator consults with the local authority, the local authority should know there's about to be a timetable change before the request gets sent to the TC's office.

There's always been a risk that when one operator hears another is changing their timetable, they change theirs in response. If Cheshire West council were producing timetables of all Warrington to Northwich services when GHA entered in to a bus war with Network Warrington, they've be printing new versions of the timetable every few weeks.

 

[spargazer]

I am sure I spied in Wilmslow a 130 bus going to Manchester, then one to Macclesfield, both Arriva, then a D&G 130 to the airport. It is unusual to see the same route number on three routes.

 

[pemma]

I am sure I spied in Wilmslow a 130 bus going to Manchester, then one to Macclesfield, both Arriva, then a D&G 130 to the airport. It is unusual to see the same route number on three routes.

Two routes not three routes. Arriva run Macclesfield-Alderley Edge-Wilmslow-Colshaw Farm-Handforth-East Didsbury-Manchester and D&G run Macclesfield-Alderley Edge-Wilmslow-Styal-Manchester Airport. Originally D&G ran Macclesfield-Alderley Edge-Wilmslow-Colshaw Farm-Handforth Dean but diverted the service to the Airport when the 200 contract was withdrawn.

Wilmslow doesn't really have provision for bus services terminating in the town centre, while people at Colshaw Farm and in Handforth need a bus to Macclesfield for Macclesfield Hospital so it makes sense for the Arriva 130 to be a through service, rather than two separate services.

 

[Dentonian]

Surely if the operator consults with the local authority, the local authority should know there's about to be a timetable change before the request gets sent to the TC's office.

There's always been a risk that when one operator hears another is changing their timetable, they change theirs in response. If Cheshire West council were producing timetables of all Warrington to Northwich services when GHA entered in to a bus war with Network Warrington, they've be printing new versions of the timetable every few weeks.

The "LA" knows, but the details are Confidential until the 42 days notice period starts. Thus, LA officers involved in discussing/liaising with Operators cannot release the details to any other department. Indeed, it also puts pressure on their own staff in forwarding such information in the reduced time frame.

 

[Dentonian]

I am sure I spied in Wilmslow a 130 bus going to Manchester, then one to Macclesfield, both Arriva, then a D&G 130 to the airport. It is unusual to see the same route number on three routes.

Arriva run the main, original Macc-Manchester service, so no confusion there surely, unless its to do with turning arrangements for "short" journeys. Again, it has always been normal service to use a single number for part route journeys, provided the actual route doesn't vary. It is the D&G choice of number 130 for a completely different route that is confusing and nonsensical.

 

[pemma]

Arriva run the main, original Macc-Manchester service, so no confusion there surely, unless its to do with turning arrangements for "short" journeys. Again, it has always been normal service to use a single number for part route journeys, provided the actual route doesn't vary. It is the D&G choice of number 130 for a completely different route that is confusing and nonsensical.

Although, when they started running a Macclesfield to Handforth Dean service the majority of the route duplicated the Arriva 130 so giving it a different number might have caused more confusion for passengers e.g. to get from Wilmslow to Macclesfield you don't have to go through Alderley Edge, Nether Alderley, Broken Cross or go past Macclesfield Hospital but both the D&G and Arriva buses do.

 

[daodao]

I'm sure NWRCC operated a 130 and it transferred to Stevensons when the Macclesfield NWRCC services were sold off.

NWRCC ran routes 29 and 30 from M/c to Macc until its demise in 1972; the routes became Crosville E29 and E30. Between M/c city centre and Parrs Wood, the 29/E29 ran via Anson Road and Kingsway, whereas the 30/E30 ran via Stockport Rd/Slade Lane and Parrs Wood Road. A little while after deregulation in 1986, the Macc operations of Crosville passed to Stephensons of Uttoxeter, which later became part of Arriva. At some point, the services were renumbered (I presume as 129/130), but the current 130 essentially follows the route of the former NWRCC 29 between Parrs Wood and the city centre; it was diverted to Piccadilly when LMS bus station was closed.

 

[daodao]

Again, it has always been normal service to use a single number for part route journeys, provided the actual route doesn't vary.

M/c Corporation Transport used to add an "x" suffix for short workings, e.g. 210x for trolleybuses from M/c to Denton to distinguish them from services running the full 210 route to Gee X.

 

[323235]

Did anyone find out the name of the operator and the final destination of this service?

Hulme Hall Coaches ran the 379 for about 6 months - a strange trial funded by Cheshire County Council which started on Dickens Lane and did a full circuit of Poynton and also served Handforth Dean.

 

[323235]

Sorry should have said - Ran to the Airport.

 

[gnolife]

Sorry should have said - Ran to the Airport.

I remember that for a time, it ran Wythenshawe - Woodford

 

[Statto]

The main services serving Poynton used to be run by NWRCC and were quite comprehensive:

• 20/20A M/c (Chorlton St)-Stockport-Woodford (joint with M/c & Stockport Corporations)
• 7/8 Stockport-Macclesfield (via Adlington/Bollington)
• 32 M/C (LMS) to Higher Poynton via Southern Cemetery/Parrs Wood/Bramhall [I remember this route well as it passed very close to where I was brought up in South M/c]
• X1 Express M/c-Macclesfield-Derby (joint with Trent Motor Traction)

The only surviving service is a derivative of former route 8.

The X1 went through a few changes of operators & numbers after D-Reg i remember it being numbered 201 through GMS/Stagecoach Manchester era before First took the contract, now theres no service North of Macclesfield & you have to change at Leek & Ashbourne nowadays.

 

[pemma]

NWRCC ran routes 29 and 30 from M/c to Macc until its demise in 1972; the routes became Crosville E29 and E30. Between M/c city centre and Parrs Wood, the 29/E29 ran via Anson Road and Kingsway, whereas the 30/E30 ran via Stockport Rd/Slade Lane and Parrs Wood Road. A little while after deregulation in 1986, the Macc operations of Crosville passed to Stephensons of Uttoxeter, which later became part of Arriva. At some point, the services were renumbered (I presume as 129/130), but the current 130 essentially follows the route of the former NWRCC 29 between Parrs Wood and the city centre; it was diverted to Piccadilly when LMS bus station was closed.

I think there's some crossed wires here. Routes were passed from Stockport based NWRCC to Crosville but then Crosville routes passed to a new NWRCC based in Aintree. The Macclesfield depot and routes didn't go straight from Crosville to Stephensons, they went from Crosville to Aintree based NWRCC (who later became Arriva North West) to Stephensons (who were later acquired by Arriva Midlands North.) What I was saying is I thought it was Aintree based NWRCC who introduced the 130, with it then passing to Stephensons and then Arriva as 130.