Cheshire Bus News (was East Cheshire Bus News)

[Maxonian206]

In competition with Arriva? So there goes the subsidy.

This is my local route. I’d be interested in knowing what is happening.

 

[childwallblues]

I wouldn't be surprised if D & G get most of the services from Arriva. Winsford depot is falling apart, driver shortages, bus shortages the lot.

From reports that you read Winsford/Macclesfield do appear to have problems in getting dedicated 38 route buses 4489-91 out on the road.

 

[ag51ruk]

In competition with Arriva? So there goes the subsidy.

The D&G services from Crewe are at 0650, 0800 and then every hour until 1600, plus 1700 as far as Congleton (so mostly in between the current Arriva service at x.35 from Crewe, although they do run 5 minutes before the Arriva service 37 as far as Sandbach).

Only the evening Arriva journeys are subsidised by Cheshire East, this new service won't affect those.

 

[daodao]

The D&G services from Crewe are at 0650, 0800 and then every hour until 1600, plus 1700 as far as Congleton (so mostly in between the current Arriva service at x.35 from Crewe, although they do run 5 minutes before the Arriva service 37 as far as Sandbach). Only the evening Arriva journeys are subsidised by Cheshire East, this new service won't affect those.

It will abstract traffic from Arriva's service, but be of limited use to passengers making return journeys because there won't be ticket inter-availability. I expect D&G's service to be pulled after a few months, unless it further undermines the local Arriva operation and they throw in the towel completely in Macclesfield.

 

[markymark2000]

Given D&Gs relationship with Arriva, could D&G be getting ready to take over Winsford depot?

I think it's a shame D&G don't properly compete as I reckon they would get a LOT of passengers. Too much working with and not against in my opinion but it is good to see them expand.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I think it's a shame D&G don't properly compete as I reckon they would get a LOT of passengers. Too much working with and not against in my opinion but it is good to see them expand.

There is an unwritten rule in the bus industry that you don't tread on another operators toes. If D&G directly competed with Arriva, Arriva could easily throw all their resources at it, and effectively take D&G off the road. Or, they could just pull out and leave D&G to it-be careful what you wish for.
When Bakers ran the 94 Biddulph-Newcastle, it was a double decker every 30 minutes, and we struggled to get seats most mornings and the 99 Biddulph-Congleton was also every 30 minutes. Now D&G have run the services down so much, they are combined into one hourly route, with a small solo on, and that has empty seats. They are not very (at all!) customer focused. Personally, I would not shed a tear to see d&G disappear.

 

[markymark2000]

There is an unwritten rule in the bus industry that you don't tread on another operators toes. If D&G directly competed with Arriva, Arriva could easily throw all their resources at it, and effectively take D&G off the road. Or, they could just pull out and leave D&G to it-be careful what you wish for.
When Bakers ran the 94 Biddulph-Newcastle, it was a double decker every 30 minutes, and we struggled to get seats most mornings and the 99 Biddulph-Congleton was also every 30 minutes. Now D&G have run the services down so much, they are combined into one hourly route, with a small solo on, and that has empty seats. They are not very (at all!) customer focused. Personally, I would not shed a tear to see d&G disappear.

Arriva could throw all resources at it but given that a lot of companies make profit from directly competing with Arriva, it's fair to say Arriva aren't like First and will not throw their toys out of the pram. They play daft by throwing the odd extra in (or I believe they have asked drivers to be so late that they are infront of the competitor) but it doesn't last long. Most of their tactics don't work but they give them a go just in case.

D&G are very good if you ring them or email but they do seem a bit back in time. The website is basic with no maps of journey planning tools of any kind. The lack of social media is a big one I think. They seem to take passengers for granted some times and don't put effort in with advertising. They have up and down sides like many companies. The drivers which I have encountered from D&G were very friendly and customer focused.

Tenders they get paid regardless of any passengers and commercial routes seem to stem from them having lower costs so can take over 'unprofitable' routes from larger companies. There is no thought really going into the routes and see what they could do differently.
That said, they do seem to have gone a bit out of their way on the Chester - Northwich 82. Dedicated timetables. route branded vehicles were used, a few specific drivers on the roster. Also the extension to Rudheath to use up dead time. They seem to be doing things very different to normal so could this be how D&G proceeds... We will find out when the 38 starts.

As soon as they put money into advertising and social media, they will be unstoppable in my opinion. Only thing holding them back.

 

[Deafdoggie]

D&G run for their benefit, not the passengers, and that is their biggest problem. They have no interest in growing the passenger numbers, indeed, they like to shrink them to fit the bus sizes they have, rather than grow them and get bigger buses. Cancelling peak hour journeys regularly like D&G do, never goes down well with regular commuters. Then they change the bus times every couple of weeks to get rid of a few more people who can no longer get to work on time.
When they took on the 94 there were full double deckers every 30 minutes, now there is a partially full small solo hourly, their ability to drive passengers away is quite astounding. Advertising and social media would attract passengers so that is why D&G show no interest in it, and never will. They are also fully aware that social media would make all the complaints public and they would be exposed, this way they can keep compalints as if they don't happen.

 

[LOL The Irony]

D&G run for their benefit, not the passengers, and that is their biggest problem. They have no interest in growing the passenger numbers, indeed, they like to shrink them to fit the bus sizes they have, rather than grow them and get bigger buses.

In my neck of the woods, they & CEC have managed to screw everything. They operate buses that break the contract (Supposed to have 38 seats, 2 wheelchair spaces and 1 buggy space - Use tiny ex London & ex go goodwins solo's) and Cheshire East just couldn't give one.

Advertising and social media would attract passengers so that is why D&G show no interest in it, and never will. They are also fully aware that social media would make all the complaints public and they would be exposed, this way they can keep compalints as if they don't happen.

Maybe one of us should set up a social media page "for them" and allow people to complain and make it public.

 

[33117]

I was chatting with a winsford based arriva driver the other day who told me there'll be an announcement regarding the future of arriva's UK bus network in september.

So for now things are slightly up in the air. The big question is though however who'd take over the operations at winsford & macclesfield???

Stagecoach I doubt would be interested as their nearest operation is manchester & also chester.

First are in the potteries so again might be too far out of area for them.

D&G, well who knows. As has been said above they run for their own benefit plus would they have the resources?

High peak have been mentioned as they have previously run quite a few east cheshire services.

So interesting times ahead as arriva are supposedly looking to sell their UK operations.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Stagecoach I doubt would be interested as their nearest operation is manchester & also chester.

I wouldn't rule them out, Macclesfield isn't that far from Stockport.

D&G, well who knows. As has been said above they run for their own benefit plus would they have the resources?

High peak have been mentioned as they have previously run quite a few east cheshire services.

I'd hope not d&g but they're most likely to take both. High Peak would be a good call if d&g decide not to take Macclesfield.

 

[Simon75]

Both D&G and High Peak 50% owned by Julian Peddle

 

[Man of Kent]

In my neck of the woods, they & CEC have managed to screw everything. They operate buses that break the contract (Supposed to have 38 seats, 2 wheelchair spaces and 1 buggy space - Use tiny ex London & ex go goodwins solo's) and Cheshire East just couldn't give one.

I'm not sure any bus in the UK could meet that spec. Two wheelchair spaces and a buggy space? A Streetlite Max, which has 39 fixed seats and 6 tip ups, can accommodate one of each but not all three.

 

[markymark2000]

D&G run for their benefit, not the passengers, and that is their biggest problem. They have no interest in growing the passenger numbers, indeed, they like to shrink them to fit the bus sizes they have, rather than grow them and get bigger buses. Cancelling peak hour journeys regularly like D&G do, never goes down well with regular commuters. Then they change the bus times every couple of weeks to get rid of a few more people who can no longer get to work on time.
When they took on the 94 there were full double deckers every 30 minutes, now there is a partially full small solo hourly, their ability to drive passengers away is quite astounding. Advertising and social media would attract passengers so that is why D&G show no interest in it, and never will. They are also fully aware that social media would make all the complaints public and they would be exposed, this way they can keep compalints as if they don't happen.

Is it not in D&Gs best interest to attract passengers? More passengers means more revenue. I don't think they want to kill off routes, it's just a lack of communication and lack of willingness to keep the passengers. I don't think complaints can be that bad as I have never had an issue with them. It's just some of their decisions are a bit confusing.

In my neck of the woods, they & CEC have managed to screw everything. They operate buses that break the contract (Supposed to have 38 seats, 2 wheelchair spaces and 1 buggy space - Use tiny ex London & ex go goodwins solo's) and Cheshire East just couldn't give one.

Maybe one of us should set up a social media page "for them" and allow people to complain and make it public.

I have thought about that before but I wouldn't want them to be annoyed and go generally go ape about it. While yes they should have Social Media, even if they are appreciative, why should we put any of our time into the page when it provides little benefit to us and we can hardly help customers. I don't know which route are on about but the 88 apparently is also messy with certain trips meant to have higher capacity vehicles on and it isn't happening. Another forum has had regular posts about buses being used on routes which aren't upto contract specs

I was chatting with a winsford based arriva driver the other day who told me there'll be an announcement regarding the future of arriva's UK bus network in september.

So for now things are slightly up in the air. The big question is though however who'd take over the operations at winsford & macclesfield???

Stagecoach I doubt would be interested as their nearest operation is manchester & also chester.

First are in the potteries so again might be too far out of area for them.

D&G, well who knows. As has been said above they run for their own benefit plus would they have the resources?

High peak have been mentioned as they have previously run quite a few east cheshire services.

So interesting times ahead as arriva are supposedly looking to sell their UK operations.

To clear up all rumours this is just an announcement about who Arriva is selling their whole UK ops to and nothing to do with the local operations as far as I know. Speculation on this sale should really be on it's own thread as it could go very far off topic locally.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Is it not in D&Gs best interest to attract passengers? More passengers means more revenue. I don't think they want to kill off routes, it's just a lack of communication and lack of willingness to keep the passengers. I don't think complaints can be that bad as I have never had an issue with them. It's just some of their decisions are a bit confusing.

They don't have a desire for growth, it costs them more, they would rather have less income and less expense. They have a phobia of double Deckers, they had some with the take-over of Wardles, but sold them, even though they provided useful capacity. Passengers are way down their list of things to be bothered about.

 

[ag51ruk]

They don't have a desire for growth, it costs them more, they would rather have less income and less expense. They have a phobia of double Deckers, they had some with the take-over of Wardles, but sold them, even though they provided useful capacity. Passengers are way down their list of things to be bothered about.

There are some well-regarded companies that don't use double deckers (Trent Barton the obvious one). I also don't get the obsession with social media, it doesn't bother me at all that they don;t use it. I would rather they used the capability of their new ticket machines to provide live bus tracking through the Ticketer app.

In separate news, D&G have announced fare rises from next week on their routes subsidised by Cheshire East, blaming the refusal of TSS (on behalf of the council) to provide an inflationary increase in the fees paid for the contracts.

That seems odd, surely any annual increase in costs would have been built into the contract and both sides aware of what was coming?

 

[Deafdoggie]

There are some well-regarded companies that don't use double deckers (Trent Barton the obvious one). I also don't get the obsession with social media, it doesn't bother me at all that they don;t use it. I would rather they used the capability of their new ticket machines to provide live bus tracking through the Ticketer app.

In separate news, D&G have announced fare rises from next week on their routes subsidised by Cheshire East, blaming the refusal of TSS (on behalf of the council) to provide an inflationary increase in the fees paid for the contracts.

That seems odd, surely any annual increase in costs would have been built into the contract and both sides aware of what was coming?

Are Trent Barton leaving passengers at stops because they need bigger buses? D&G went straight from full Double Deckers to small solos, that hacked off a lot of passengers as you can imagine! It is not social meadia per se, but contactability with D&G many of their passengers have tried to complain and get no response back at all.

 

[Martin2012]

Does anyone know if D&G currently charge the same fares on the Sunday and Public Holiday 38 as Arriva do during the week?

 

[33117]

Does anyone know if D&G currently charge the same fares on the Sunday and Public Holiday 38 as Arriva do during the week?

Aye it's £5.50 for a day saver which covers the whole of the D&G network.

 

[Martin2012]

Thanks for explaining.

One other question, do you know if D&G accept Arriva tickets and passes on the Sunday 38 journeys?

If they currently do I wonder if they'll continue to do so after they launch their own weekday service.

 

[Deerfold]

To clear up all rumours this is just an announcement about who Arriva is selling their whole UK ops to and nothing to do with the local operations as far as I know. Speculation on this sale should really be on it's own thread as it could go very far off topic locally.

I've not seen anything about Arriva selling their UK operations. Where did you see about that?

DB is selling Arriva as a whole at the moment. Splitting it whilst looking for investors sounds unlikely.

 

[markymark2000]

I've not seen anything about Arriva selling their UK operations. Where did you see about that?

DB is selling Arriva as a whole at the moment. Splitting it whilst looking for investors sounds unlikely.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/deutsche-bahn-arriva-unit-attention-204512397.html

 

[Deerfold]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/deutsche-bahn-arriva-unit-attention-204512397.html

Thanks - that's the first mention I've seen of a possible sale of parts of Arriva. I'd be surprised if they took those offers as they've had offers for the whole business which would presumably need to be renegotiated if parts were sold separately.

 

[MalaiseForever]

Anybody aware of recent news on buses serving crewe? I’ve only just come across this thread.

 

[markymark2000]

Anybody aware of recent news on buses serving crewe? I’ve only just come across this thread.

Should we have any news? Crewe just seems to tick along with it's abandoned buses and bus station.

I was hoping D&G would start being a bit more competitive but they just seem to sit stable doing nothing. Interestinly they haven't uploaded the new timetables for the 88/288 and they haven't put their notes on the 737. They are normally quite quick at noting people of service changes.

The latest news I know which could remotely relate to Crewe is that all Arriva Winsford maintenance is being done at Runcorn depot so vehicles will mix between Winsford and Runcorn possibly regularly.

 

[theshillito]

abandoned buses and bus station

Well, now that Santander and Boots Opticians have moved out, they can knock down the town centre for the new bus station, etc. I wonder what the arrangements will be while the bus station is being demolished/built.

 

[MalaiseForever]

Should we have any news? Crewe just seems to tick along with it's abandoned buses and bus station.

I was hoping D&G would start being a bit more competitive but they just seem to sit stable doing nothing. Interestinly they haven't uploaded the new timetables for the 88/288 and they haven't put their notes on the 737. They are normally quite quick at noting people of service changes.

The latest news I know which could remotely relate to Crewe is that all Arriva Winsford maintenance is being done at Runcorn depot so vehicles will mix between Winsford and Runcorn possibly regularly.

I was just wondering if there was anything at all, rather than specific. Thanks for your comments.

 

[MalaiseForever]

Well, now that Santander and Boots Opticians have moved out, they can knock down the town centre for the new bus station, etc. I wonder what the arrangements will be while the bus station is being demolished/built.

looking forward to this, really needs sorting out there.

 

[markymark2000]

Well, now that Santander and Boots Opticians have moved out, they can knock down the town centre for the new bus station, etc. I wonder what the arrangements will be while the bus station is being demolished/built.

Something needs sorting there. Even Macclesfield Bus Stn is better than Crewe and that is saying something!

It can't be hard for them to do. I think it's just a reluctance to do it. Arriva is having too much fun getting money for nothing on the departure fees to easily give it up. Personally, I would knock down the shops in Queensway and build the bus station there (basically turn it 90 degrees clockwise). Entrance and exit onto Delamere Street only. There you go, the rest can be redeveloped. The best example of what Crewe needs can probably be found in Andover. Really small but presentable and welcoming.

 

[theshillito]

The plans for the "Royal Arcade" are already out, and the bus station features on the left of this image.

Seems a road parallel to Lawrence Street (alongside the Job Centre) is the plan. It is rotated 90 degrees clockwise too!