East Coast Drivers Edinburgh

[A-driver]

I think Edinburgh drivers can get as far as York, if the service is disrupted.

They will either sign it or not, nothing to do with disruption. If they sign to York then they will need enough work in the roster to maintain their route knowledge.

 

[SkinnyDave]

They will either sign it or not, nothing to do with disruption. If they sign to York then they will need enough work in the roster to maintain their route knowledge.

Controversial thought..(only a thought)
Is York not a better Half way point for a drivers depot instead of having Newcastle and Doncaster one?? Edinburgh to York then York to Kings Cross similar to Virgin having Glasgow to Preston to London

 

[Failed Unit]

Controversial thought..(only a thought)
Is York not a better Half way point for a drivers depot instead of having Newcastle and Doncaster one?? Edinburgh to York then York to Kings Cross similar to Virgin having Glasgow to Preston to London

Problem is the depot. It makes sense to have crew at Newcastle because of Heaton.

 

[ainsworth74]

Problem is the depot. It makes sense to have crew at Newcastle because of Heaton.

Also a lot of services start/finish at Newcastle so if you had the drivers based at York you'd have to use a lot of taxis to get them to/from their trains!

 

[junglejames]

Edinburgh drivers only drive to Newcastle. That is where the changeover point is. Youd never keep the route knowledge if it was only for emergencies, as no service trains change at York in normal service. No point.
You probably have a handful of Newcastle drivers sign the full route from London to Edinburgh. Cant be sure, but its certainly been the case before.
As for the Highland Chieftan. Ive seen people on here before, say that Newcastle drivers work to Inverness 1 direction, and Aberdeen the other. However ive never known this. Ive always known the same Newcastle driver do the Inverness both ways.
I shall check for sure sometime though.
There is 1 Aberdeen I cant account for. So could be a Newcastle jobbie. Depends how many non lodging turns Edinburgh has. Cant remember right now.
Either way, there has to be at least 1 lodging turn with less than 12hrs off.

Ah, If my head is on correctly, I cant find enough Edinburgh men for the first 2 up trains from Aberdeen. I think there is only 2 lodging turns for the Edinburgh men. One of them works back in the afternoon. So it is possible one of the morning up trains is worked by a Newcastle man.

 

[cawky22]

My Grandad finished work as the 91 s were coming online , he did sign from Newcastle to Kings Cross and also to Edinburgh a while back though.

 

[Liam]

Some services also change crew (not sure about drivers) at Berwick. I'm sure the 1600 KGX-ABD is one of these services.

 

[calc7]

Some services also change crew (not sure about drivers) at Berwick. I'm sure the 1600 KGX-ABD is one of these services.

From what I've gathered by speaking to the teams, catering crew diagrams change on a weekly basis. Some weeks a crew does London - Edinburgh and return, then the next week they will only go as far as Newcastle on their journeys. Happy to be corrected.

 

[Mintona]

I know London men sign to Newcastle so I would be highly surprise if Newcastle men did not sign to London. I'd imagine a lot of turns would be Newcastle - London and back, or 2 Edinburghs.

 

[junglejames]

I know London men sign to Newcastle so I would be highly surprise if Newcastle men did not sign to London. I'd imagine a lot of turns would be Newcastle - London and back, or 2 Edinburghs.

Newcastle men do sign to London. You have some in the London link, and some in the Edinburgh link who sign to Edinburgh, and possibly further. Im guessing you have a handful who sign the whole route. But obviously wont do it in one go.
Newcastle being the only depot who have anybody signing the whole route (if they do).

 

[34D]

but need 12 hours from when you book off to when you book on

I'm assuming this is a union agreement, and not legislation?

 

[A-driver]

I'm assuming this is a union agreement, and not legislation?

It's neither. It's a reccomendation followed by almost all rail companies following the report into the clapham junction crash which was blamed largely on fatigue.

Both staff and the company would be liable for prosecution if not followed as happened not too long ago to 3 bus drivers following an audit. Each fined personally for working more hours than allowed or working through breaks/without minimum rest between duties etc.

 

[reb0118]

Prior to privatisation you would not need as many lodging turns as today. This was because the depots at Inverness, Perth, Aberdeen, Edinburgh, & Newcastle would probably be able to cover almost all work and still allow the traincrew to return to their home depot at the end of their shifts.

However after privatisation due to the limited number of through EC services North/West of Edinburgh it does not made sense for EC to have full Traincrew depots at these locations and therefore more driving lodging turns came into existance for these routes. (Mainly taxis to/from Glasgow Central prior to/at the end of each shift for this route).

I believe (on hearsay evidence though) that originally GNER Edinburgh drivers refused to do lodging turns so Newcastle picked up the work. Things change however and Edinburgh now wants the work back (although you could say they never had it in the first place?). Newcastle depot is resisting this however.

 

[SkinnyDave]

Prior to privatisation you would not need as many lodging turns as today. This was because the depots at Inverness, Perth, Aberdeen, Edinburgh, & Newcastle would probably be able to cover almost all work and still allow the traincrew to return to their home depot at the end of their shifts.

However after privatisation due to the limited number of through EC services North/West of Edinburgh it does not made sense for EC to have full Traincrew depots at these locations and therefore more driving lodging turns came into existance for these routes. (Mainly taxis to/from Glasgow Central prior to/at the end of each shift for this route).

I believe (on hearsay evidence though) that originally GNER Edinburgh drivers refused to do lodging turns so Newcastle picked up the work. Things change however and Edinburgh now wants the work back (although you could say they never had it in the first place?). Newcastle depot is resisting this however.

One of the reasons Edinburgh may be after the work again is the reduction of Glasgow Central Turns

 

[spacehopper]

4 driving links.

North Link
South Link
Heaton Relief Link

and Lodge Link.

Another possible historic reason could be mileage payments?

 

[calc7]

4 driving links.

North Link
South Link
Heaton Relief Link

and Lodge Link.

Another possible historic reason could be mileage payments?

Could you explain the term "driving links" and describe the four you mention?

 

[junglejames]

Could you explain the term "driving links" and describe the four you mention?

Each depot will have groups of drivers to do particular runs. Each group being a link. North Link must mean Newcastle to Edinburgh and Glasgow, South Link is to London, lodging link are the group of drivers who sign Inverness, and possibly Aberdeen. Heaton relief link? Not sure.
So basically, you have a group of drivers that sign London, a group that sign Edinburgh, and a group that sign past Edinburgh up to Inverness.

Make sense?

Note, this sounds like its for Newcastle depot.

 

[SkinnyDave]

I'd love to work for East Coast at Edinburgh as a driver at some point but I wonder if working for XC would be more varied?

 

[ainsworth74]

I'd love to work for East Coast at Edinburgh as a driver at some point but I wonder if working for XC would be more varied?

Doubtful as XC at Edinburgh sign pretty much the same stuff as EC!

 

[SkinnyDave]

Doubtful as XC at Edinburgh sign pretty much the same stuff as EC!

Think they go as far as Leeds and back in one turn

 

[Kentish Paul]

As a matter of interest does a driver have to have driven every permutation of a route when signing for it. I'm thinking of multi track locations and approaches to large Stations where the possible routings can be many and varied depending on circumstances.

Also in my time commuting (on what is now Southeastern) from Ashford there were a few occasions when diverted to other routes along bits that never saw timetabled trains (Petts Wood to Bickley Jnc fast lines). This happened on a few occasions upon diversion to Victoria after problems on the Charing Cross line. The trains never slowed on the diversion. I realise east Kent (Ramsgate etc) drivers have probably signed both routes to London (Chatham to Victoria and Ashford to Charing Cross) but how many would have actually driven that short 1/2 mile section that were only used by Eurostar before the move to St Pancras. Was this a case of nightime ECS movement to retain route knowledge?

Again back in my commuting days, the last train to Ashford (11:30 ex Charing Cross) was often pathed on the UP line between Paddock Wood and Ashford as the engineers got to work on the down line. Would a driver have to have physicaly driven this "wrong line" to be able to sign it. (note: The line is bi directionaly signalled).

 

[junglejames]

As a matter of interest does a driver have to have driven every permutation of a route when signing for it. I'm thinking of multi track locations and approaches to large Stations where the possible routings can be many and varied depending on circumstances.

Not sure about this. Possibly may just be a case of proving you know what you are doing. Saying that, during the course of route learning, the chances are you would cover virtually all possible permutations.

Also in my time commuting (on what is now Southeastern) from Ashford there were a few occasions when diverted to other routes along bits that never saw timetabled trains (Petts Wood to Bickley Jnc fast lines). This happened on a few occasions upon diversion to Victoria after problems on the Charing Cross line. The trains never slowed on the diversion. I realise east Kent (Ramsgate etc) drivers have probably signed both routes to London (Chatham to Victoria and Ashford to Charing Cross) but how many would have actually driven that short 1/2 mile section that were only used by Eurostar before the move to St Pancras. Was this a case of nightime ECS movement to retain route knowledge?

That short section, plus most usual diversions, will no doubt be a necessity for anyone who signs the Tonbridge mainline. Doubt you will find a driver who doesnt sign them. Diversions are frequent around this neck of the woods.

Again back in my commuting days, the last train to Ashford (11:30 ex Charing Cross) was often pathed on the UP line between Paddock Wood and Ashford as the engineers got to work on the down line. Would a driver have to have physicaly driven this "wrong line" to be able to sign it. (note: The line is bi directionaly signalled).

More than likely, but if you say it often happened, then no doubt all drivers would have done it at some stage during route learning.

 

[34D]

As a matter of interest does a driver have to have driven every permutation of a route when signing for it.

On LU if they are passed on one track they are deemed competant on an adjacent track (so I was told 5 years ago when I worked there) but when I worked with a mainline OC it appeared that training was supposed to be on every discrete line but refreshing could be on any adjacent (one example here would be the through road at wakefield westgate which sees one pas and one ecs a day - with shifts and amendments could be once a year that a driver gets on this.

 

[Dieseldriver]

When I was out road learning on LU we had to ride over sections of track a set amount of times (eg, Harrow on the Hill to Wembley Park 'fast' 6 times). The shunt moves tended to be a choice of either theory or practical purely due to operational issues.