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East Coast franchise discussion (Previously: Rumour VT/Stagecoach to win)
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Manchester77
Established Member
But that was part of their contract? They had the option to take up an extension and they declined because it would mean that the franchise would be changing at the height of GWML route modernisation.
Suraggu
Member
Actually The Express broke the story on Sunday (When the markets are closed) from an undisclosed source and when the markets opened on Monday First Group shares plummeted and Stagecoach's dropped.
And all anyone else [i.e. the Telegraph and Mail who 55z was talking about] has said is that there are rumours - i.e. they do not know anything else.
Aictos
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Umm no they didn't, it's a proven myth that they "defaulted and handed back the keys" when actually all they did which they were perfectly entitled to do was to refuse to take up the extension to their then existing contract because of all the upheaval that would occur under the route modernisation.
First Group did nothing underhand or illegal at all, I suspect due to the obvious chip on your shoulder with your anti First bias that you continue to spout crap about them for no reason other then you really hate them .
This is exactly what happened, it was purely a option to take up which they didnt exercise for the changeover would have occured in the middle of major route modernisation.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
National Express also did nothing that they weren't entitled to do...
It all depends on whom this information was sourced from.
At the end of the day, all the staff working in the bidding teams and from DfT will be aware of who has won. For the last few weeks, the winning team would be finalising models and carrying out final checks before being revealed as the winning bidder. While the closing teams, would be twiddling their thumbs as there would be little contact from DfT.
The only newspaper that has actually claimed to know anything is the Express. The others have reported on rumours and market speculation.
GrimsbyPacer
Established Member
http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...d-keolis-favoured-to-win-east-coast-franchise
This story says Keolis-Eurostar are the government's favourite for getting the franchise and that First share prices have fallen. I think DfT should keep it until next election.
This story says Keolis-Eurostar are the government's favourite for getting the franchise and that First share prices have fallen. I think DfT should keep it until next election.
GrimsbyPacer
Established Member
Does anyone know what the three companied are promising to do to improve services?
Doubt that will be known until the award is announced and even then it'll probably only tell us about the winner.
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
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No, because in the normal process the winning bidder will not announce their plans until they are confirmed, and the losing bidders do not normally ever say what they offered.
The analysis of each others bids in public after the highly publicised WCML problems is not a normal situation.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Despite the expected wailing and gnashing of teeth (whoever wins it), the ICEC franchise options are going to be small beer really.
The major operational and rolling stock decisions have already been taken by DfT (ie IEP everywhere).
It'll just be a question of where they run, and how often.
Maybe we'll hear something about Hull wiring (that would cheer First Group up a bit).
Somewhat of a myth also that they declined the extension due to route modernisation upheaval. That was the public pronouncement, but it was a bit of a smokescreen for the real reason. Had they continued, the back loaded premium payments to the government in the final three years would have seriously damaged First Group's finances. They weren't in the best of shape at the time. The DfT then decided to postpone a franchise round until after the modernisation works. First Group have, through politics, bluff, and not a little chutzpah, managed to do very well for themselves in retaining the Greater Western franchise on a management basis. All at the expense of the taxpayer. Trebles all round in Aberdeen.:roll:
Fair to say though that had they taken the extension they may well have found the situation financially untenable and done a 'NXEC'.
F Great Eastern
Established Member
Another one of the reasons that First did not opt to take the longer term deal was that when they signed a contract at the start of the franchise, it was under the understanding that NR and DFT would do certain things in a certain time frame regarding infrastructure, rolling stock and IEP.
FG clearly wanted to protect themselves in case what they were told would be delivered, would not be delivered, since their bid factored in that other parties would do their bit. Therefore First put a clause in saying that they could not take up the option of the last few years, to protect them against this.
With all the dilly dallying with the IEP project and the long drawn out orders for it, time shows that was an extremely wise decision. That is completely different from National Express, who had no major work on the scale of the GWML being carried out or promised by the DFT on their stretch of line, and simply overbid full stop.
And I agree that things are not ideal in the areas served by FGW. But rather than blaming it all on FGW, you should also look at other industry parties.
FG clearly wanted to protect themselves in case what they were told would be delivered, would not be delivered, since their bid factored in that other parties would do their bit. Therefore First put a clause in saying that they could not take up the option of the last few years, to protect them against this.
With all the dilly dallying with the IEP project and the long drawn out orders for it, time shows that was an extremely wise decision. That is completely different from National Express, who had no major work on the scale of the GWML being carried out or promised by the DFT on their stretch of line, and simply overbid full stop.
And I agree that things are not ideal in the areas served by FGW. But rather than blaming it all on FGW, you should also look at other industry parties.
WatcherZero
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Possibly the Newcastle rail bypass as well.
No it says that "it is understood that..." - which probably means they've seen the same newspaper articles here.
I think the DfT should do that - but it's probably a bit late now and the bidders would submit claims for expenses if that were to happen at this stage.
Masboroughlad
Established Member
The excitement of waiting for a decision is...... underwhelming! I do wish they would hurry up though!
ModernRailways
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Apparently, it will be tomorrow - according to a member of EC staff at Newcastle.
How many times have we heard that before though
Lead item on BBC Look North was that Eurostar/Keolis appear, from stock movements, to have won the franchise. So it's made it the TV news now.
Suraggu
Member
Apparently, it will be tomorrow - according to a member of EC staff at Newcastle.
How many times have we heard that before though
Actually BBC are lining up pundits for tomorrow morning according to Tony Miles. Announcement expected at 7am tomorrow.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Very disappointing. Oh well, East Coast remains on the avoid[1] list, then.
My order of preference would probably be Stagecoach (with VT branding) first, then First second (!), with E*/Keolis last.
[1] It is presently only there because of the horrible seats which hurt my back due to there being no proper under-thigh support as the base slopes the wrong way, but I would expect there will be no significant improvements to other aspects now either.
Neil
Sir Richard then speaks at 7.10am and starts a social media campaign to get everyone to demand Virgin (Stagecoach) gets it.
7:04am I had it pencilled in for personally
It's looking like Keolis/ET so best of luck to them and as someone who travels on the ECML three times a week well done to Karen Boswell and her team who have on the whole drastically improved EC over the last few years.
Moving forward though it will be interesting to see what they have planned for the line and how much they are going to return to the treasury as again Karen Boswell and her team will be a hard act to follow on that front as well.
To be fair the last time he did have a point!
I suspect that as long as the DfT haven't dropped any clangers (and I would imagine if there is even a single brain cell in the DfT this will be watertight) he will express disappointment and leave it at that.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
It's more likely that Tim O'Toole and Brian Souter will be the ones having to smile through gritted teeth tomorrow. SRB seems less interested now.
And we'll have to admit the Express got it right. :cry:
Probably...
I think you are probably right he didn't throw the toys out the pram with XC. Having ran the WC for so long he would have known exactly where the tipping point was with it.
Hopefully they won't hike up AP tickets or drastically reduce them on peak services.
Masboroughlad
Established Member
Looking forward to seeing the new destinations they will propose serving.
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