East Coast to hire two Class 90s?

[Class86Fan]

With 91114 broken and another broken Class 91 will East Coast have to hire two Class 90s to cover for them?

 

[ryan125hst]

91114 broken? Isn't that the one with two pantographs? Do you know whether it is the double pantograph setup that has caused the problem?

 

[60163tornado]

They have always got spare sets hidden away somewhere so i doubt it.

 

[ryan125hst]

They have always got spare sets hidden away somewhere so i doubt it.

East Coast have got 30 Intercity 225 sets, and 31 Class 91's. If what I have read online is correct, they need 27 sets in service every day as there are 27 diagrams. The other three sets will be either undergoing maintainance or spares. They haven't got any spare sets hidden away (I don't think anyway ).

 

[60163tornado]

From past knowledge they have hired in HST sets from East Midland Trains.

 

[Eastcoast43208]

Iam Expecting an EMT HST set to be hired in again, nicking them HSTs again lol

But it would be nice to see a 90 pulling a MK4 set.

 

[Liam]

From past knowledge they have hired in HST sets from East Midland Trains.

They have a HST set in EMT livery, but ith East Coast vinyls on. It looks weird, I seen it at Waverly last week.

 

[Yew]

Yeah, EMT should be able to spare a HST for a limited period. They lent one when the EC set in EMT livery was in the works having new seats and vinyls put on it.


Its a shame MK4's arent HST compatiable, as there are a few extra power cars around

 

[ryan125hst]

Are there enough spare MK3's around to form one or two sets to use with the Class 90's? I know there has been little spare capacity since the Eureka timetable. Could East Coast hire a few MK3 sets to solve the problem?

 

[ainsworth74]

Its a shame MK4's arent HST compatiable, as there are a few extra power cars around

Personally I'd suggest that the HSTs aren't compatible with Mk4s rather than the other way round

Are there enough spare MK3's around to form one or two sets to use with the Class 90's? Could East Coast hire a few MK3 sets to solve the problem?

If the problem is with the 91s why would you need Mk3s? The Mk4s are perfectly compatible with class 90s.

But in any case, all this ignores one issue that the ECML is a 125mph railway. Running 110mph services in the paths that East Coast has will almost certainly cause issues. Also I'd rather like some sort of source for the information that two 91s have been laid low.

 

[nxea321446]

91114 was sat in doncaster west yard today

 

[musicking1306]

I do remember a FGW HST being hired to East Coast not too long ago?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

GNER used to use a 90 on one of the Leeds diagrams regularly- If my memory serves me rightly I think one was even painted into GNER livery at the time, and it ran with a Mk4 set. (though back then there was probably room for a 110mph diagrammed service- not so much now though!). I think the use of 90s ended when 89001 was brought back into use, though may have resumed during the 91 overhauls.

 

[43074]

But in any case, all this ignores one issue that the ECML is a 125mph railway. Running 110mph services in the paths that East Coast has will almost certainly cause issues. Also I'd rather like some sort of source for the information that two 91s have been laid low.

I understand a 90 could keep time on the Newark and York services because of their better accelleration compared to a 91 or HST.

 

[HSTEd]

It is a pity the Flying Badger is beyond use now.....

It would avoid the need for retimetabling.

 

[90019]

GNER used to use a 90 on one of the Leeds diagrams regularly- If my memory serves me rightly I think one was even painted into GNER livery at the time, and it ran with a Mk4 set.

It was 90024, though it didn't have the GNER logo on it, just the red stripe.

 

[Liam]

It is a pity the Flying Badger is beyond use now.....

It would avoid the need for retimetabling.

I think if there was a real need for it, it would be in use now. Sadly there isn't..

 

[DarloRich]

With 91114 broken and another broken Class 91 will East Coast have to hire two Class 90s to cover for them?

no (simple answer)

 

[dk1]

Our class 90 team at Crown Point are doing a fantastic job. Sure they could spare one for a price

 

[D365]

Our class 90 team at Crown Point are doing a fantastic job. Sure they could spare one for a price

There's plenty 90s lying about the network, thank you. Unless you could work some magic to uprate them to 125mph - we miss 89001 :P

Or even better, 140mph. 155mph. Let's give you a real test!

 

[Aictos]

I do remember a FGW HST being hired to East Coast not too long ago?

Yes this was to cover for the unavailability of a Mk4 set plus 2 Class 91s which were for the week being used on IEP tests between Peterborough and Newark Northgate testing the idea of twin pans being in use at high speeds, I'm led to believe this was a complete success and that came from one of the test drivers

At the time, I was dispatching at Stevenage so I made sure I got a chance to act as lead dispatcher and dispatch it - I do remember telling the guard that one of the coaches had lost all lighting and him telling me it was fine 20 mins ago when leaving Kings Cross,

 

[ryan125hst]

If the problem is with the 91s why would you need Mk3s? The Mk4s are perfectly compatible with class 90s.

To add more capacity to East Coast's fleet. Quite a few HST digagrams are entirely under the wires. Hiring MK3 sets with Class 90's would solve that issue.

But in any case, all this ignores one issue that the ECML is a 125mph railway. Running 110mph services in the paths that East Coast has will almost certainly cause issues. Also I'd rather like some sort of source for the information that two 91s have been laid low.

The Class 90's have better acceleration than the Class 91's. If they put them on the Newark/York services (some of which are currently operated by a HST!), then it shouldn't be much of an issue. Besides, First Capital Connect's Class 317's and 365's have a top speed of 100mph, as do FTPE's Class 185's. And then you've got the 60 and 75mph freights. It can't be too much of an issue, can it?

 

[Liam]

To add more capacity to East Coast's fleet. Quite a few HST digagrams are entirely under the wires. Hiring MK3 sets with Class 90's would solve that issue.



The Class 90's have better acceleration than the Class 91's. If they put them on the Newark/York services (some of which are currently operated by a HST!), then it shouldn't be much of an issue. Besides, First Capital Connect's Class 317's and 365's have a top speed of 100mph, as do FTPE's Class 185's. And then you've got the 60 and 75mph freights. It can't be too much of an issue, can it?

Also, weren't the Eurostar sets limited to 110, when they were used on the ECML?

 

[ryan125hst]

Also, weren't the Eurostar sets limited to 110, when they were used on the ECML?

They were, because of problems with the OLE. I think the restriction is only north of Grantham though (but it may have been all of the EMCL* originally)

*Kings Cross to Leeds and York that is. They never went north of York due to gauging problems at Newcastle.

 

[captainbigun]

It is a pity the Flying Badger is beyond use now.....

It would avoid the need for retimetabling.

It's far from beyond use.

 

[tbtc]

Quite a few HST digagrams are entirely under the wires. Hiring MK3 sets with Class 90's would solve that issue

If 90s were 125mph machines then you'd be right.

As things currently stand, there's one big fleet of EC stock, so a service from Edinburgh/ Newcastle/ York to London may work the next northbound service to West Yorkshire.

You'd need to jig the timetables around a bit to create diagrams where a 90 could perform (i.e. nothing long distance/ high speed).

 

[455driver]

89001 was great at accelerate it didn't matter in the early days that it didn't have top speed of 140mph, because it start to stop with the accelerate would keep it on time for any class 91 timing. But with only a line speed of 125mph now that dosen't matter now.

The maximum speed on the ECML has only ever been 125mph in normal service.

 

[Crossforth]

Speaking of hiring in a HST, when I pulled into Leeds station just before 0650 this morning, there was an EC HST sat in platform 9 with an EMT power car on the front.

And the ECML did used to be a 140mph line and used to use flashing greens to allow drivers to run at this speed. These signals are still in ise but now mean the same as a steady green aspect.

I believe the speed was reduced to 125mph after Hatfield.

 

[HSTEd]

Speaking of hiring in a HST, when I pulled into Leeds station just before 0650 this morning, there was an EC HST sat in platform 9 with an EMT power car on the front.

And the ECML did used to be a 140mph line and used to use flashing greens to allow drivers to run at this speed. These signals are still in ise but now mean the same as a steady green aspect.

I believe the speed was reduced to 125mph after Hatfield.

Nope, only one stretch of the line (the legendary stoke bank) was fitted with operational flash green aspects.

These were only usable in preauthorised runs, but since modifications to signal equipment are expensive they were left in place permenantly.

The relevent authorities later decreed that 125mph was the absolute limit for trackside signals and the experiments were abandoned.

 

[captainbigun]

And the ECML did used to be a 140mph line and used to use flashing greens to allow drivers to run at this speed. These signals are still in ise but now mean the same as a steady green aspect.

I believe the speed was reduced to 125mph after Hatfield.

Common misconception. Non-passenger trials were undertaken with flashing greens indicating the extra empty section for 140mph operation. However this method of signalling was deemed unsuitable for 140mph operation. This was in BR days.

Passenger services have never officially run at 140.