East Coast Trains - Is this still going ahead?

[800001]

So... what is the best solution for that? Running the trains to Edinburgh at the start and end of the day, or finding somewhere else to maintain them, or building an extension at Doncaster?

Any of those options doesn’t require TPE to run north of Newcastle all day.

Maybe fix all issues that cause Doncaster and Bounds Green to be car parks with large quantities of units awaiting repairs (some since September 2020), that would maybe give Doncaster the capacity that it was built for.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

That would explain why 802208 is running around the TPE network on 2 power cars vice 3 and 204 (I think-or 205) is still at Heaton awaiting a new nose cone following its fatal at Cramlington.

 

[8J]

That would explain why 802208 is running around the TPE network on 2 power cars vice 3 and 204 (I think-or 205) is still at Heaton awaiting a new nose cone following its fatal at Cramlington.

There's more than just 208 that's running around with a GU isolated. 214 and 216 have been (although I think 214 may now be sorted). 219 has also had intermittent engine issues.

204 hasn't seen service since the fatality at Cramlington and is at Craigentinny awaiting parts following the fatality (and has been there since mid October).

Hitatchi need to find more suitable locations to complete both light and heavy maintenence. The obvious location for them would be Edge Hill (currently an Alstom depot) which would in turn relieve pressure off Doncaster and Craigentinny and also be used for maintenance of Avanti's new fleet of Hitatchi units which are to be based at Oxley.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Ah, so 204 has moved to craigentinny. Last I heard it was still at Heaton.
The difference with 208 is the whole traction package has been isolated on 834208 so it doesn’t provide any traction at all, electric or diesel. The difference in performance as a result is painful!

 

[cakefiend]

Mate in Scotland just asked me if I wanted to apply for this - looks like ECT are recruiting guards under the guise of 'Customer Ambassadors'. Job description refers to safety of the line and route learning, so it's not some trolley job but I suppose they could be doing that as well. FirstGroup Careers

 

[Steddenm]

Some interesting jobs to do as an "Ambassador" looking at their job spec. Upwelling tourist attractions, hotel accommodation etc and must have a food hygiene certificate to "prepare food".

 

[Bletchleyite]

Some interesting jobs to do as an "Ambassador" looking at their job spec. Upwelling tourist attractions, hotel accommodation etc and must have a food hygiene certificate to "prepare food".

Quite interesting. I said a while ago if I invented InterCity trains now I wouldn't have a guard and a steward, I'd have two safety-and-revenue-trained stewards and the driver doing the doors, which I think is also what LEO Express in the Czech Republic do and also a bit closer to what airlines do. Quite interesting to see that ECT are basically going to do that - I wonder how it will go?

 

[pdeaves]

Quite interesting to see that ECT are basically going to do that - I wonder how it will go?

I think it should go OK. Like GB Railfreight years ago, the company is effectively a start-up, independent of any pre-existing terms and conditions. This is an ideal way to do things a 'new' way. No fuss with 'our members will not change how they do things' or any other distractions. People will be recruited to do a specific task.

 

[cakefiend]

Quite interesting. I said a while ago if I invented InterCity trains now I wouldn't have a guard and a steward, I'd have two safety-and-revenue-trained stewards and the driver doing the doors, which I think is also what LEO Express in the Czech Republic do and also a bit closer to what airlines do. Quite interesting to see that ECT are basically going to do that - I wonder how it will go?

I think RegioJet have a similar model, albeit at least one crew member is passed as a guard.

Anyway, it seems clear ECT are keen to sweat their assets - I note it doesn't mention that the Ambassadors will have door duties, although it seems they will have a guards competency judging by the criteria listed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think RegioJet have a similar model, albeit at least one crew member is passed as a guard.

I note it doesn't mention that the Ambassadors will have door duties

They won't, assuming this thread is correct, somewhere upthread it states it's DCO. Sounds like they will be safety trained, though.

 

[BayPaul]

They won't, assuming this thread is correct, somewhere upthread it states it's DCO. Sounds like they will be safety trained, though.

Sounds like another way they are going with an aviation model. I agree that it seems like a very sensible way to do it - means that food service can be instantly turned from a loss maker to a profit centre

 

[fgwrich]

Could this explain why Hull Trains 802301 was seems working shuttles between Edinburgh and Tyne Yard last week?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Yes Hull Trains units are being used for driver training. Hull Trains units are being kept in storage at Tyne Yard and apart from the engines are virtually identical so makes sense to use them and running in paths the TPE and Hull services are currently not using

 

[IanXC]

Those earlier discussing whether LNER would be "willing" to assist a failed ECT set probably should know that its not exactly LNER's decision. If a service fails on Network Rail infrastructure, Network Rail identify and 'requisition' the required assistance for it...

Regarding all this talk of diversions and hauling 803s, its also worth remembering that at GWR and LNER signing 800/801 is interchangeable, and so its not crazy to think 802/803 would be, particularly looking at the driving training runs now underway. As a result its particularly worth remembering that Hull Trains have 5 802s for 3 daily diagrams (in the full timetable), so for planned works its not impossible to think one or two might be available for hire to ECT, particularly as if, for instance Lincoln diversions are in place, the Hull Trains service is usually reduced to effectively 2 diagrams anyway.

 

[Class 170101]

I'm trying to remember now does the East Coast Trains have a confirmed Contract now and is it actually secure given what the ORR has said in reference to Grand Central(?) and their 'cancelled' aspirations to Cardiff.

I personally remain to be convinced that this service will be the best use of capacity when set against other services.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I personally remain to be convinced that this service will be the best use of capacity when set against other services.

I think it is potentially useful in other ways, most notably trialling new service and staffing concepts which might be able to be applied to e.g. HS2.

 

[Bald Rick]

I'm trying to remember now does the East Coast Trains have a confirmed Contract now and is it actually secure given what the ORR has said in reference to Grand Central(?) and their 'cancelled' aspirations to Cardiff.

I personally remain to be convinced that this service will be the best use of capacity when set against other services.

They have had an approved Track Access contract for years, and yes it is secure.

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm trying to remember now does the East Coast Trains have a confirmed Contract now and is it actually secure given what the ORR has said in reference to Grand Central(?) and their 'cancelled' aspirations to Cardiff.

Their track access rights were granted by the ORR back in 2016(ish) and if they tried to remove them then I'd image First would sue the ORR onto the ground.

 

[Carlisle]

I personally remain to be convinced that this service will be the best use of capacity when set against other services.

Going by many of the current pandemic recovery predictions, capacity wont be an issue for a fair while yet.

 

[Class 170101]

Going by many of the current pandemic recovery predictions, capacity wont be an issue for a fair while yet.

Track capacity will return to use faster than than train capacity I would suggest. Threads elsewhere suggest that not all the trains can fit on the railway.

 

[KJ83]

Going by many of the current pandemic recovery predictions, capacity wont be an issue for a fair while yet.

With abroad summer holidays still a bit doubtful I can see many people wanting to go away domestically. After last lockdown the leisure railway traffic bounced back very quickly, as that's the market First East Coast are after I can't see them having any issues.

 

[Class 170101]

With abroad summer holidays still a bit doubtful I can see many people wanting to go away domestically. After last lockdown the leisure railway traffic bounced back very quickly, as that's the market First East Coast are after I can't see them having any issues.

Will they be operating by this summer? Maybe next year is likely

 

[Ianno87]

Will they be operating by this summer? Maybe next year is likely

October 2021.

 

[Class 170101]

October 2021.

So unlikely to get much summer domestiv traffic then (unless we have an 'Indian' Summer I suppose).

 

[southern442]

If they put a decent seat in they could take passengers from LNER on this basis alone.

Let us hope that the idea of having superior seats doesn't count as 'revenue abstraction'

Moderator note: discussion continues at https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-are-your-hopes-fears-and-predictions.214306/