East Croydon chaotic and dangerous

[tsr]

The only reason I ask is a few months ago, they seem to be doing something like resurfacing the platform edges with new tactile paving with half the platform surfaces dug up.

What's wrong with the subway anyway?

I can't remember what the problem with those platform surfaces was, but IIRC it was something fairly urgent which looked a bit wasteful but there was some pressing need or other. With regards Haywards Heath subway, it was pretty narrow and grotty and new parking & accessible access was needed at that end of the station (albeit arguably and at a cost, if you speak to some local residents). I believe it also had some security and low-level crime issues which should be mitigated by the design of the new bridge.

 

[sarahj]

The only reason I ask is a few months ago, they seem to be doing something like resurfacing the platform edges with new tactile paving with half the platform surfaces dug up.

What's wrong with the subway anyway?

The subway frequently flooded, plus there is no link to the new car park. Punters from the car park will access the station from there via a bridge and new entrance rather than have to walk down some stairs and come in the front way. I think a Waitrose is also going in as well. (the car parking area).

 

[jon0844]

I think a Waitrose is also going in as well.

That's going to be more packed than the trains when everyone wants their free coffee every morning!

 

[Deepgreen]

I can't remember the last time I noticed that any work had taken place at East Croydon. There seems to be absolutely no urgency to complete the works there and the station is a disgrace in the meantime.

 

[BingBong50]

And now they have changed the glass on each side of the main ramps from the concourse down to the platforms so you can't see through it. What is that all about?

They are happy to block the view there but not the rain from the bridge !!!!

 

[Bald Rick]

And now they have changed the glass on each side of the main ramps from the concourse down to the platforms so you can't see through it. What is that all about?

They are happy to block the view there but not the rain from the bridge !!!!

It's to help stop people running for trains down the ramp (when they see one), which a) causes by far the majority of accidents at the station and b) to help get trains away on time (although I'm more dubious about how that will work).

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It's to help stop people running for trains down the ramp (when they see one), which a) causes by far the majority of accidents at the station and b) to help get trains away on time (although I'm more dubious about how that will work).

I would think it'll be more likely to encourage people to run because they won't see if there's a train there or not and a greater proportion of the time there isn't a train there...

 

[tsr]

I would think it'll be more likely to encourage people to run because they won't see if there's a train there or not and a greater proportion of the time there isn't a train there...

From what I can see, the scheme has worked, though I'm not sure if there's any statistical evidence to back up my observations yet. There are still a few people running down the ramps, but fewer people seem to be doing it on the off-chance that they'll get the train at the bottom.

Most people do seem to "wait and see" if a train is at the platform before running for it, which I think also covers a surprising proportion of the people on trains from non-barriered stations who say to me and others "the train was waiting and about to go, so I just quickly hopped on it" (not all of those people are deliberately wishing to evade fares as their general rule, y'know!).

East Croydon has, for much of the day and night, a pretty good service frequency except for services to Edenbridge Town-Uckfield, Redhill-Tonbridge, and the WLL. Therefore people may wish for the convenience of the very next train, but often I think they will be put off quite easily from running for something which they may not find to be there.

I would also add that I am pleasantly surprised by the design and neat fitting of the vinyls on the windows. The ramps may be a bit darker but it is not much worse than during bad fog. It looks like appreciable thought has gone into the design and installation. Observant users will also have noticed new handrails and a few more platform number signs appearing.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The biggest visual improvement they could make to the ramps would be to rebuild the sides with the pillars vertical rather than perpendicular to the ramp surface - I guess the opportunity has now passed this time, though?

I imagine they built it that way originally because it was cheaper than having vertical pillars?

 

[Minstral25]

Once upon a time East Croydon was a fine station. Easy to use from an interchange point of view with it's nice and easy sloped underpasses between the three islands. But someone looked at the underpass and cried, "this is not fit, people are moving too easily with their prams, wheeled luggage and bicycles. Let us build a whopping high incredibly steep bridge with a surface which becomes like an ice rink in wet weather so that it becomes necessary to post staff at the top of each flight of stairs to warn people. We will call it job creation. We will close and fill in that nice easy to use underpass which was dry in wet weather and to compensate we will install lifts which will often fail to work and are too small for real purpose and cause much wailing and gnashing of teeth when trying to pass between platforms when stairs are too much for the reasons previously stated".

Absolutely excellent statement

When Southern cut 4 peak hour trains from Redhill route to London Bridge and telling the upset commuters you'd have to change at East Croydon instead, especially unfair to working parents as the last London Bridge peak service is 10 minutes after Nurseries open making catching it impossible

Southern management promised East Croydon would be complete by March 2015 and that there would be good communications for the customers changing trains. Of course this is not possible. Hence a lot of commuters are frustrated by the changes at East Croydon are often running for trains on very short connections which the changes are meant to stop.

I do not understand why they want to stop commuters crossing trains quickly - in fact I don't understand why they don't use platform 4 as a southbound platform in the evening peak as crossing from platform 2 to 3 in the evening regularly means missed connections as the long queues up the bridge from - the width is so small - and then a hunt at the tiny screens to see where your train is.

Needs a proper redesign to work out what passengers not just trains need - a huge number of passengers are changing here needs some though

 

[Andrewlong]

Absolutely excellent statement

When Southern cut 4 peak hour trains from Redhill route to London Bridge and telling the upset commuters you'd have to change at East Croydon instead, especially unfair to working parents as the last London Bridge peak service is 10 minutes after Nurseries open making catching it impossible

Southern management promised East Croydon would be complete by March 2015 and that there would be good communications for the customers changing trains. Of course this is not possible. Hence a lot of commuters are frustrated by the changes at East Croydon are often running for trains on very short connections which the changes are meant to stop.

I do not understand why they want to stop commuters crossing trains quickly - in fact I don't understand why they don't use platform 4 as a southbound platform in the evening peak as crossing from platform 2 to 3 in the evening regularly means missed connections as the long queues up the bridge from - the width is so small - and then a hunt at the tiny screens to see where your train is.

Needs a proper redesign to work out what passengers not just trains need - a huge number of passengers are changing here needs some though

I worked in Croydon between February 2013 and September last year. The new footbridge opening in December 2013 was great as it saved so much time for those working in the Wellesley Road area near to the Home Office buildings. A nice shortcut. However I agree with the poster above - getting between platforms is painful and the footbridge is unpleasant to use when wet. Also it lacks escalators. It needs widening and more information monitors. Look at how it's done at Reading.

 

[Waddon]

Rebuilding platform 1 and 2 to increase the height, whilst a good idea due to the gap, seems wasteful when there are already plans in place to build a new platform, which would require the existing platform 1 and 2 to be realigned.

But everything about the works at East Croydon seems unplanned - I remember when they filled the underpass in, they spent a lot of time laying out block paviours to match the old platform surface, and then, literally within a few weeks of finishing, they ripped it all up to put in the newer paving slabs. I expect many of these will need to also be ripped out again when the platform gets heightened...

 

[STPBTN]

Echoing the sentiments above, I've been quite frustrated with the lack of progress at East Croydon in the last year. My commute takes me from St Pancras to Brighton so quite often I change at East Croydon to/from the fast Brighton train. My observations so far:

• I suspected as much that the new 'foggy' glass had to do with deterring people from running for their trains. A comment above said that missing the very next train shouldn't inconvenience people too much. I spend 60 hours a month commuting on trains; missing the very next train significantly adds to cumulative delays during the year.

• The lack of progress with the building works means that there are significant stretches of the platform where I cannot hear announcements and I cannot see the information screens as they are blocked by piles of bricks.

• Adding to further frustration, the layout of the station means that last-minute platform alterations do mean that I have to run up and down the ramps (e.g. from platform 2 to 3). Two weeks ago there was a platform alteration from 2 to 3 one minute before the train was supposed to arrive. I ran, and by the time I reached platform 3, there was another alteration to platform 2. There were no apologies for the inconvenience caused.

 

[tsr]

• I suspected as much that the new 'foggy' glass had to do with deterring people from running for their trains. A comment above said that missing the very next train shouldn't inconvenience people too much. I spend 60 hours a month commuting on trains; missing the very next train significantly adds to cumulative delays during the year.

The problem with that mindset is precisely why the fog-effect vinyls are needed. I am sorry if you find this rather critical, but other passengers (I am guessing not yourself, but of course do feel free to correct me) have done themselves a great deal of damage thinking they can save themselves a few minutes and running for the next train. The ramp surfaces are steep by today's standards, change subtly in places resulting in differing slip resistance, and most certainly are not suitable for being used at anything other than a brisk walking pace. This means that it is far safer and better for people to miss a train and be a few minutes later home. I have regularly read the Southern bulletins over the last couple of years featuring injuries on the ramps at East Croydon, varying from "no treatment needed" to several cases of significant hospitalisation. You may well lose a lot more time by tripping over once in a couple of years than you would by saving a couple of minutes here and there.

The problem of the safety of East Croydon's ramps has evidently been bugging those in charge of - and legally responsible for - passenger safety for a while, and it seems this is an entirely proportionate response. East Croydon is neither the country's prettiest station nor offers exceptional views - it is certainly no great loss to passengers to hide the sight of a building site or two in the name of preventing passengers tripping over all and sundry in order to get to Haywards Heath the fastest because there's some random purple 377 in Platform 3.

Your other observations about the usability of the station do certainly have plenty of truth - work has been pretty slow (not helped by contractor incidents on site, the detail of which I am probably not permitted to disclose) and I should think there will be quite some consideration of how passengers have - or indeed have not - been kept informed when planning future refurbishments elsewhere.

 

[talldave]

Who's actually responsible for (mis) managing this pathetic situation? I'd guess Southern, because it fits their style of being incapable of managing anything. With the best of intentions I contacted them about errors in automated PA announcements at East Croydon but after a few email exchanges I gave up because it's obvious they're incapable of understanding clearly written sentences of English. It's unsurprising, therefore that scaffolding, bricks and mortar are totally beyond them.

 

[Deepgreen]

The problem with that mindset is precisely why the fog-effect vinyls are needed. I am sorry if you find this rather critical, but other passengers (I am guessing not yourself, but of course do feel free to correct me) have done themselves a great deal of damage thinking they can save themselves a few minutes and running for the next train. The ramp surfaces are steep by today's standards, change subtly in places resulting in differing slip resistance, and most certainly are not suitable for being used at anything other than a brisk walking pace. This means that it is far safer and better for people to miss a train and be a few minutes later home. I have regularly read the Southern bulletins over the last couple of years featuring injuries on the ramps at East Croydon, varying from "no treatment needed" to several cases of significant hospitalisation. You may well lose a lot more time by tripping over once in a couple of years than you would by saving a couple of minutes here and there.

The problem of the safety of East Croydon's ramps has evidently been bugging those in charge of - and legally responsible for - passenger safety for a while, and it seems this is an entirely proportionate response. East Croydon is neither the country's prettiest station nor offers exceptional views - it is certainly no great loss to passengers to hide the sight of a building site or two in the name of preventing passengers tripping over all and sundry in order to get to Haywards Heath the fastest because there's some random purple 377 in Platform 3.

Your other observations about the usability of the station do certainly have plenty of truth - work has been pretty slow (not helped by contractor incidents on site, the detail of which I am probably not permitted to disclose) and I should think there will be quite some consideration of how passengers have - or indeed have not - been kept informed when planning future refurbishments elsewhere.

While I generally agree with the sentiments about running down ramps, it is not necessarily only a few minutes that are to be saved. I live at Betchworth, so missing my connection at Redhill means either a one or two hour wait, depending on the time of day. If a last-minute platform change occurs, I will do my best to avoid that situation, meaning I will probably run to catch the train. It must also be said that lessons do not seem to have been learned, because the new footbridge's flooring is horrendously slippery with any moisture on it, and people will/should be expected to run there between staircases as well.

 

[03_179]

I do use East Croydon a fair bit.

The other week it was torrential rain and the footbridge was, in my view, very dangerous. Trains being late compounded the issue with people racing from one platform to another.

The rain was lashing across the walkway as there is little to no cover provided one side. The floor was soaked and people were visibly slipping and sliding. It's far too narrow for the amount of people using it.

Obviously whoever designed the footbridge doesn't use East Croydon or maybe had never even been to Croydon. But because of it's uselessness it will win design awards.

The canopies do not look like they have had any work done in ages and I can say I have never seen anyone working on them when I have been there. They leak all over passengers, the info screens are obscured a lot and they also provide cover for covert smokers (I have seen this a number of times).

I feel sorry for the staff trying to dispatch trains as the reduced platform widths must make it hard to see each other.

Yeah the subway was a bit grotty ... but lets face it ... it was better than the new footbridge.

 

[infobleep]

Echoing the sentiments above, I've been quite frustrated with the lack of progress at East Croydon in the last year. My commute takes me from St Pancras to Brighton so quite often I change at East Croydon to/from the fast Brighton train. My observations so far:

• I suspected as much that the new 'foggy' glass had to do with deterring people from running for their trains. A comment above said that missing the very next train shouldn't inconvenience people too much. I spend 60 hours a month commuting on trains; missing the very next train significantly adds to cumulative delays during the year.

• The lack of progress with the building works means that there are significant stretches of the platform where I cannot hear announcements and I cannot see the information screens as they are blocked by piles of bricks.

• Adding to further frustration, the layout of the station means that last-minute platform alterations do mean that I have to run up and down the ramps (e.g. from platform 2 to 3). Two weeks ago there was a platform alteration from 2 to 3 one minute before the train was supposed to arrive. I ran, and by the time I reached platform 3, there was another alteration to platform 2. There were no apologies for the inconvenience caused.

I agree with your comments.

If I have to get a connection; my incoming train is late and my next train I'd shown as being on time or I have no. Like data reception to see if it's on time then I will run. End of.

If I knew they would hold the train for me then I wouldn't run. They wouldn't hold it so I'll run.

While I generally agree with the sentiments about running down ramps, it is not necessarily only a few minutes that are to be saved. I live at Betchworth, so missing my connection at Redhill means either a one or two hour wait, depending on the time of day. If a last-minute platform change occurs, I will do my best to avoid that situation, meaning I will probably run to catch the train. It must also be said that lessons do not seem to have been learned, because the new footbridge's flooring is horrendously slippery with any moisture on it, and people will/should be expected to run there between staircases as well.

I agree with everything you have written.

Has work at East Croydon ground to a halt or does it just appear to be that way when work is actually on going?

 

[ert47]

FYI, they are working on the canopies, but mostly at night time while the station is not busy

 

[tsr]

As a few replies to the above (quoting each bit would take ages, my apologies):

- The footbridge design was, AFAIK, led at least in a considerable part by someone who regularly uses trains via East Croydon. I have not seen any suggestion that anything other than local knowledge was used. Whether it was misinterpreted does of course remain a matter for free debate.
- As is so well-illustrated above, East Croydon is a (controlled) work in progress and is subject to a number of less-than-ideal conditions such as the obstructions due to the building works. There are also, of course, the hazards of regular wet weather and the total unsuitability of the ramps and steps for running passengers. This means the station management will do everything which is reasonably within their power to stop people running for trains. From what I have seen so far, the vinyl on the windows has had some effect in this. Frankly the station management do care if you miss your train, but they care an awful lot more for your overall health and safety whilst using the station, and until it is suitable for you to tear around like a lunatic (read: never), they will do absolutely everything to stop you doing so. Behaviour amongst passengers is totally understandable when moving quickly towards trains, but it does not mean running is acceptable - accident stats prove this quite adequately and thus accident prevention is pretty high on the agenda.
- I live near stations with poor service levels (including Betchworth, which I have used) and know full well how irritating missed connections are. Sadly passengers have been advised to take care when making connections (as cracking your head open on a brick ramp is rather detrimental to making your connection) but have failed to heed the warnings. No matter how tight or crucial your connection, your wellbeing is rather more important. Southern have a connection policy for holding certain trains and whilst, IIRC, it does not directly include East Croydon - Betchworth flows, but it does include many feasible journey options where missed connections would result in a long wait (and certainly connections are held or alternative transport provided if "last trains" are missed due to train delays impacting on official connection times). If you have a comment about a particularly awkward local flow for which connections are poor, there are plenty of very vocal user groups who will be very happy to take this sort of thing forward for future planning. I know or have otherwise been in communication with several people involved in such groups in the Redhill area, which would probably cater for Betchworth connections as an example, and they certainly put a lot of effort into sorting just those sorts of challenges.
- As a disclaimer, I work on the railway in and around East Croydon at all times of day and night, 7 days a week (obviously not continuously, or I'd be rather tired ) and, before that, I used to be a paying commuter for a number of years on routes which often necessitated changes.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

FYI, they are working on the canopies, but mostly at night time while the station is not busy

Quite. In fact, the safety measures surrounding such works rather get in the way of some of the flexibility of overnight station operations, but it's definitely a price worth paying.

 

[Minstral25]

As a few replies to the above (quoting each bit would take ages, my apologies):

- The footbridge design was, AFAIK, led at least in a considerable part by someone who regularly uses trains via East Croydon. I have not seen any suggestion that anything other than local knowledge was used. Whether it was misinterpreted does of course remain a matter for free debate.
- As is so well-illustrated above, East Croydon is a (controlled) work in progress and is subject to a number of less-than-ideal conditions such as the obstructions due to the building works. There are also, of course, the hazards of regular wet weather and the total unsuitability of the ramps and steps for running passengers. This means the station management will do everything which is reasonably within their power to stop people running for trains. From what I have seen so far, the vinyl on the windows has had some effect in this. Frankly the station management do care if you miss your train, but they care an awful lot more for your overall health and safety whilst using the station, and until it is suitable for you to tear around like a lunatic (read: never), they will do absolutely everything to stop you doing so. Behaviour amongst passengers is totally understandable when moving quickly towards trains, but it does not mean running is acceptable - accident stats prove this quite adequately and thus accident prevention is pretty high on the agenda.
- I live near stations with poor service levels (including Betchworth, which I have used) and know full well how irritating missed connections are. Sadly passengers have been advised to take care when making connections (as cracking your head open on a brick ramp is rather detrimental to making your connection) but have failed to heed the warnings. No matter how tight or crucial your connection, your wellbeing is rather more important. Southern have a connection policy for holding certain trains and whilst, IIRC, it does not directly include East Croydon - Betchworth flows, but it does include many feasible journey options where missed connections would result in a long wait (and certainly connections are held or alternative transport provided if "last trains" are missed due to train delays impacting on official connection times). If you have a comment about a particularly awkward local flow for which connections are poor, there are plenty of very vocal user groups who will be very happy to take this sort of thing forward for future planning. I know or have otherwise been in communication with several people involved in such groups in the Redhill area, which would probably cater for Betchworth connections as an example, and they certainly put a lot of effort into sorting just those sorts of challenges.
- As a disclaimer, I work on the railway in and around East Croydon at all times of day and night, 7 days a week (obviously not continuously, or I'd be rather tired ) and, before that, I used to be a paying commuter for a number of years on routes which often necessitated changes.

Appreciate that like me you are a Redhill area regular. You must thus be aware the rerouting of many peak Redhill to London Bridge customers through East Croydon and the high level of complaint being made.

The footbridge has been a PR disaster and itself is no-where near as convenient as the underpass. Some very bad decisions have been made. First blocking a perfectly usable underpass to use as foundations for the bridge. imagine the ease of flow if they had left the underpass in place as well.

Second whilst diverting many passengers through ECR they have decided to undertake major works - which to the customer looks like they are doing virtually nothing each day (we can't even see progress since January)

Third the design of the footbridge is inadequate for the volume of users as it gets extremely overcrowded and the surfaces used are really not suitable as it gets extremely slippery

Fourth the positioning is badly thought through as its created large competing flows down the side of the footbridge along very narrow platforms each time a busy train calls.

Fifth a general lack of information around the footbridge. The signs are too small to read from a distance and the small next train boards with their very slow scrolling are inconvenient to read and cause people to stop and wait whilst passing to locate train blocking flows

I often arrive on platform 2 and my next trains is on 3, 5 or 6 - to work out which platform by using the station PIS is tricky - it shouldn't be it should be easy to glance and go - scrolling signs should be banned

All in all IMO it appears to be another computer generated project that doesn't work at what it is supposed to do and is inferior to the previous method. It is a massive step backward and I say that as someone who has used East Croydon to change for several years

 

[Deepgreen]

Essentially the footbridge shows a disastrous lack of planning to take account of materials used, passenger flows, sight-lines, phasing of works, timing of works (i.e. when the rest of the railway is in turmoil owing to the London Bridge project), etc. It's hard to think how anything much worse could have been provided!

Also, to those who claim that station staff DO care if you miss your train, I have say, rubbish - the staff at Redhill seem to take a pride in ensuring missed connections - take yesterday evening, when the 1759 LBG to Horsham lost time all the way to Redhill, arriving about ten late, at 1843ish, and we found that the 1843 to Reading had been let go, despite a two hour gap following that for intermediate stations such as Betchworth, and despite repeated (and seemingly empty) assurances in e-mails from Southern that these connections should be held.

Platform staff have a prime directive - to ensure their particular train gets away on time, taking no account of any connections that could be made if a few seconds extra were allowed. The current target-driven railway is not a passenger-friendly one. I (and many others who use the North Downs line) am heartily sick of having connections at Redhill broken with a two hour following gap just for the want of a few seconds hold on the departing train.

 

[talldave]

Essentially the footbridge shows a disastrous lack of planning to take account of materials used, passenger flows, sight-lines, phasing of works, timing of works (i.e. when the rest of the railway is in turmoil owing to the London Bridge project), etc. It's hard to think how anything much worse could have been provided!

Also, to those who claim that station staff DO care if you miss your train, I have say, rubbish - the staff at Redhill seem to take a pride in ensuring missed connections - take yesterday evening, when the 1759 LBG to Horsham lost time all the way to Redhill, arriving about ten late, at 1843ish, and we found that the 1843 to Reading had been let go, despite a two hour gap following that for intermediate stations such as Betchworth, and despite repeated (and seemingly empty) assurances in e-mails from Southern that these connections should be held.

Platform staff have a prime directive - to ensure their particular train gets away on time, taking no account of any connections that could be made if a few seconds extra were allowed. The current target-driven railway is not a passenger-friendly one. I (and many others who use the North Downs line) am heartily sick of having connections at Redhill broken with a two hour following gap just for the want of a few seconds hold on the departing train.

As a former Southern "resident" I sympathise with your view. However, I'm now in Southeastern land and earlier this week in the aftermath of the Kent derailment I made sure I got to Gravesend early to give myself options if the HS1 I wanted skipped the station again and ran fast as had happened the previous day. I asked a member of station staff when I might know if the late running service would switch to "fast" mode and he phoned up the colleagues responsible and asked what they were planning to do. So I was informed of their plans to run fast after Gravesend before the information went public and thus didn't have to seek alternative routes. I thought that was excellent service and a case of going beyond the call of duty.

 

[NSEFAN]

The current target-driven railway is not a passenger-friendly one. I (and many others who use the North Downs line) am heartily sick of having connections at Redhill broken with a two hour following gap just for the want of a few seconds hold on the departing train.

The problem is there's no way to easily account passenger delay before it occurs, but accounting for train delay is very easy. This is why connections tend not to be held unless there are local instructions for this. With the north downs line there is then the risk of introducing more missed connections at Guildford or Reading if the train is held at Redhill. Perhaps if it was a dead-end branch line the connection would be held more often.

 

[Minstral25]

The problem is there's no way to easily account passenger delay before it occurs, but accounting for train delay is very easy. This is why connections tend not to be held unless there are local instructions for this. With the north downs line there is then the risk of introducing more missed connections at Guildford or Reading if the train is held at Redhill. Perhaps if it was a dead-end branch line the connection would be held more often.

Perhaps they should add 2-4 minutes between Redhill and Guildford to allow for holds at Redhill when Southern are late

Or perhaps they do anyway....................

 

[infobleep]

As a few replies to the above (quoting each bit would take ages, my apologies):

- The footbridge design was, AFAIK, led at least in a considerable part by someone who regularly uses trains via East Croydon. I have not seen any suggestion that anything other than local knowledge was used. Whether it was misinterpreted does of course remain a matter for free debate.
- As is so well-illustrated above, East Croydon is a (controlled) work in progress and is subject to a number of less-than-ideal conditions such as the obstructions due to the building works. There are also, of course, the hazards of regular wet weather and the total unsuitability of the ramps and steps for running passengers. This means the station management will do everything which is reasonably within their power to stop people running for trains. From what I have seen so far, the vinyl on the windows has had some effect in this. Frankly the station management do care if you miss your train, but they care an awful lot more for your overall health and safety whilst using the station, and until it is suitable for you to tear around like a lunatic (read: never), they will do absolutely everything to stop you doing so. Behaviour amongst passengers is totally understandable when moving quickly towards trains, but it does not mean running is acceptable - accident stats prove this quite adequately and thus accident prevention is pretty high on the agenda.
- I live near stations with poor service levels (including Betchworth, which I have used) and know full well how irritating missed connections are. Sadly passengers have been advised to take care when making connections (as cracking your head open on a brick ramp is rather detrimental to making your connection) but have failed to heed the warnings. No matter how tight or crucial your connection, your wellbeing is rather more important. Southern have a connection policy for holding certain trains and whilst, IIRC, it does not directly include East Croydon - Betchworth flows, but it does include many feasible journey options where missed connections would result in a long wait (and certainly connections are held or alternative transport provided if "last trains" are missed due to train delays impacting on official connection times). If you have a comment about a particularly awkward local flow for which connections are poor, there are plenty of very vocal user groups who will be very happy to take this sort of thing forward for future planning. I know or have otherwise been in communication with several people involved in such groups in the Redhill area, which would probably cater for Betchworth connections as an example, and they certainly put a lot of effort into sorting just those sorts of challenges.
- As a disclaimer, I work on the railway in and around East Croydon at all times of day and night, 7 days a week (obviously not continuously, or I'd be rather tired ) and, before that, I used to be a paying commuter for a number of years on routes which often necessitated changes.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Quite. In fact, the safety measures surrounding such works rather get in the way of some of the flexibility of overnight station operations, but it's definitely a price worth paying.

Thanks for explaining that. Unfortunately that policy either doesn't apply to trains part cancelled or staff are not aware of it applying. I was due on a train from Gatwick to Guildford. Incoming train was late so started from Redhill. I and everyone else went to Redhill on the next available train as instructed to do so by staff at Gatwick Airport.

Despite train leaving Redhill late, I still missed it as it left before our train arrived, despite all of us being told to head to Redhill to catch that train.

Personally I think the connection times for trains should be amended. They allow 5 minutes at East Croydon and Woking. However, especially at East Croydon, I think getting from different platforms when your incoming train is late and your next train is on time is not easy and 5 minutes is not long enough. Delays are more likely during peak rush hour.

However at Clapham Junction to get from Southern service to South West Trains the connection time is officially 10 minutes. If you need to get off a train on platform 12 onto a train on platform 11, same island, you clearly don't need 10 minutes.

Thus if possible I think connection times should be changed to reflect platform changes the passenger has to do and time of day. That's if this is possible to implement such a thing. Yes it is more complicated in terms of timetables but if they can implement the Co private routing guide and acres structure, it must be possible to do similar for connection times.

I also think they should try to update the screens with delayed departure times sooner.

If 2 minutes before my train is due to leave at Euston they put up the platform number and they still say the train is going to leave on time, is it any wonder I start running. If they put delayed or the like departure time I wouldn't run as I know I have more train. Note trains are only every 30 minutes for the route I'm taking. As it was the train did leave late.
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Perhaps they should add 2-4 minutes between Redhill and Guildford to allow for holds at Redhill when Southern are late

Or perhaps they do anyway....................

Wouldn't it get in the way of other services. I think there is one evening service after 7pm that waits for a time at Guildford but most don't.

Perhaps the issue is that they only allow 5 minutes for the Redhill train. If they could run other trains to Redhill it would help.

If the next train to Betchworth is two hours, are you told to wait at the staying for 1 hour 55 minutes or would they provide alternative transport?

Another question is, why is their a two hour gap to Bletchworth during or just after peak rush hour?

 

[Deepgreen]

If the next train to Betchworth is two hours, are you told to wait at the staying for 1 hour 55 minutes or would they provide alternative transport?

Another question is, why is their a two hour gap to Bletchworth during or just after peak rush hour?

At Redhill one is not told anything, as the staff melt into the shadows at any sign of complaint, and if we were, it certainly wouldn't be about alternative transport! At Betchworth the 'peak' service is hourly while off-peak is two hourly. So the morning peak service is 0713, 0819, 0919 and the evening peak return is 1632, 1743 and 1843. The staff at Redhill are so blinkered that they seem to be utterly unaware of other trains that are actually disgorging passengers across the 'up' island platform, and continue to see their train off even as those passengers have their fingers on the door buttons, rather than wait the 15 seconds it would take to catch the train! As Southern's corporate motto has it - "taking service to the next level" - but not upwards!

 

[infobleep]

At Redhill one is not told anything, as the staff melt into the shadows at any sign of complaint, and if we were, it certainly wouldn't be about alternative transport! At Betchworth the 'peak' service is hourly while off-peak is two hourly. So the morning peak service is 0713, 0819, 0919 and the evening peak return is 1632, 1743 and 1843. The staff at Redhill are so blinkered that they seem to be utterly unaware of other trains that are actually disgorging passengers across the 'up' island platform, and continue to see their train off even as those passengers have their fingers on the door buttons, rather than wait the 15 seconds it would take to catch the train! As Southern's corporate motto has it - "taking service to the next level" - but not upwards!

Another alternative is to stop the next fast FGW service at the stations. Yes it will delay it but in the past I use to see services make additional stops at Shalford due to people being delayed on South West Trains services.

Do train companies officially or unofficially consider 2 hours for a few passengers an acceptable waiting time if a connection is missed due to a train being late? Or is the system so complicated that they ha e just not noticed the issue here with Betchworth.

 

[maniacmartin]

Around 17:34 yesterday, the signs on platforms 5/6 had this. The times were totally wrong!

 

[Deepgreen]

Another alternative is to stop the next fast FGW service at the stations. Yes it will delay it but in the past I use to see services make additional stops at Shalford due to people being delayed on South West Trains services.

Do train companies officially or unofficially consider 2 hours for a few passengers an acceptable waiting time if a connection is missed due to a train being late? Or is the system so complicated that they ha e just not noticed the issue here with Betchworth.

They don't care - they run what they are required to under the terms of their contract. Additional trains cost them money (profit) and holding trains for connections means their stats suffer.