East Croydon - Guildford route

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GodAtum

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Hi all,

Which would be better for commuting, via Clapham Junction or Redhill? They both seem to be a similar journey time and for a 7-day season there is only £10 difference. I was wondering how crowded the services could be? I'll be traveling around 7-8am and coming back around 5-6pm.

Many thanks in advance :)
 
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bignosemac

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Is there a 7 Day season that permits travel via Clapham Junction?

All I can find are ones routed: REDHILL or NOT VIA CLAPHM J.

The second of those is the cheaper and would surely be valid via Redhill anyway, so I can't see the point of a more expensive route: REDHILL 7DS.
 

ert47

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Go via Redhill, you'll be going against the traffic so there should be a higher chance of getting a seat
 

John @ home

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Is there a 7 Day season that permits travel via Clapham Junction?

All I can find are ones routed: REDHILL or NOT VIA CLAPHM J.
There are fares by four routes:
  • NOT VIA CLAPHM J: Standard 7-day season £58.90
  • NOT VIA LONDON: Standard 7-day season "Use Travelcard" £84.30 (Guildford - London Zones 2-6 route Clandon/Woking)
  • VIA REDHILL: Standard 7-day season £69.50
  • +ANY PERMITTED: Standard 7-day season "Use Travelcard" £95.30 (Guildford - London Zones 1-6 route Clandon/Woking)
All I can find are ones routed: REDHILL or NOT VIA CLAPHM J.

The second of those is the cheaper and would surely be valid via Redhill anyway
I don't agree. A GUILDFORD - CROYDON STATIONS route NOT VIA CLAPHM J is valid by any Permitted Route which does not pass through Clapham Jn. By my calculations Redhill is not on any Permitted Route.
  • There are no through trains.
  • It is not the shortest route (26.25 miles via Bookham, Wallington and Selhurst).
  • At 31.25 miles, it is more than 3 miles longer than the shortest route.
  • No mapped route (PD+SC or PD+SC+WX+LB) passes through Redhill.
 

Indigo2

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By my calculations, the shortest route from East Croydon to Guildford is 27 miles 53 chains:
Code:
0ch		0ch	EAST CROYDON
1m 12ch		1m 12ch	SELHURST
2m 26ch		1m 14ch	WEST CROYDON
3m 31ch		1m 5ch	WADDON
4m 76ch		1m 45ch	WALLINGTON
5m 63ch		67ch	CARSHALTON BEECHES
6m 66ch		1m 3ch	SUTTON (SURREY)
7m 67ch		1m 1ch	CHEAM
9m 24ch		1m 37ch	EWELL EAST
10m 67ch	1m 43ch	EPSOM
12m 70ch	2m 2ch	ASHTEAD
14m 54ch	1m 64ch	LEATHERHEAD
17m 17ch	2m 43ch	BOOKHAM
18m 72ch	1m 55ch	EFFINGHAM JUNCTION	
19m 74ch	1m 2ch	HORSLEY
23m 9ch		3m 14ch	CLANDON
26m 29ch	3m 20ch	LONDON ROAD (GUILDFORD)	
27m 53ch	1m 24ch	GUILDFORD
and the route via Redhill is 3 miles 9 chains longer than this:
Code:
0ch		0ch	EAST CROYDON
72ch		72ch	SOUTH CROYDON	
2m 6ch		1m 14ch	PURLEY OAKS
3m 2ch		75ch	PURLEY
4m 66ch		1m 65ch	COULSDON SOUTH
8m 42ch		3m 56ch	MERSTHAM
10m 23ch	1m 61ch	REDHILL
12m 10ch	1m 67ch	REIGATE
15m 2ch		2m 71ch	BETCHWORTH
17m 49ch	2m 47ch	DORKING (DEEPDENE)
18m 26ch	57ch	DORKING WEST
23m 5ch		4m 59ch	GOMSHALL
27m 0ch		3m 75ch	CHILWORTH
28m 67ch	1m 67ch	SHALFORD (SURREY)
30m 62ch	1m 74ch	GUILDFORD
So, it might just be permitted by some booking engines, depending on the margin of error they use in their shortest route calculations.
 

bignosemac

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I don't agree. A GUILDFORD - CROYDON STATIONS route NOT VIA CLAPHM J is valid by any Permitted Route which does not pass through Clapham Jn. By my calculations Redhill is not on any Permitted Route.
But all the walk-up ticket types routed: NOT VIA CLAPHM J can be purchased online with an itinerary via Redhill. Should the season tickets be more restrictive? WebTIS offers the NOT VIA CLAPHM J fares from East Croydon via Redhill to Guildford, thetrainline will offer the fares from South Croydon.

South Croydon would pass the 3 mile rule for journeys to Guildford via Redhill.

When calculating the shortest route from a station that is in a group for ticketing purposes (CROYDON STATIONS) is there anything that says you must calculate based on the station you may be using most regularly, or should you not be free to chose the most advantageous calculation?
 

GodAtum

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How busy it is from Redhill - Guildford in the peak?

Would a NOT VIA CLAPHM J: Standard 7-day season £58.90 ticket be permitted in travelling via Redhill?
 

John @ home

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How busy it is from Redhill - Guildford in the peak?
ert47's post #3 above appears to be the only information we have so far.
Would a NOT VIA CLAPHM J: Standard 7-day season £58.90 ticket be permitted in travelling via Redhill?
That is the subject of the debate between bignosemac, Indigo2 and me. I hope to respond in detail later. At this stage I would say that, whether it is technically valid or not, a passenger who does not wish to be challenged about a ticket's validity should not use a GUILDFORD - CROYDON STATIONS route NOT VIA CLAPHM J season ticket on a journey via Redhill.
 

tsr

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How busy it is from Redhill - Guildford in the peak?
Quite busy, but it does vary a bit. You probably should get a seat if you board the train as soon as possible, but the train will be particularly busy between Redhill and Reigate and possibly between Reigate and Dorking as well, so you may have to wait for one. It will almost certainly not be as busy as using Southern Metro services.
 

stut

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Don't forget there is a direct West Croydon to Guildford service at 07:44, with the return at 18:22. Which, presumably, would qualify for the cheapest fare.

As, I assume, would Wimbledon and Tramlink.
 

GodAtum

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Quite busy, but it does vary a bit. You probably should get a seat if you board the train as soon as possible, but the train will be particularly busy between Redhill and Reigate and possibly between Reigate and Dorking as well, so you may have to wait for one. It will almost certainly not be as busy as using Southern Metro services.
I think that Clapham Junc - Guildford is usually empty in the morning (from what I can see passing trhough Clapham)?
 
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spasmj

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When calculating the shortest route from a station that is in a group for ticketing purposes (CROYDON STATIONS) is there anything that says you must calculate based on the station you may be using most regularly, or should you not be free to chose the most advantageous calculation?
There is nothing in the rules to specify which station to use. The ATOC routeing data includes a primary station for each group which is presumably used by the online booking engines.
 
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Wasn't it wonderful that in B.R. days one could buy a ticket from East Croydon to Guildford and it would simply state "not via London" on it which meant that one could travel via Redhill or via Clapham Junction - and choosing two routes from there being via Woking or via the new line or even via Leatherhead. For a bit of an adventure you could always have gone up to Selhurst and then down via West Croydon, Sutton and Leatherhead.
 

globetrotter

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My suggestion, if paying quite a lot more money is acceptable, is to purchase a season ticket from Horley to Wanborough. This permits the routing "Not London" and travelling from East Croydon becomes possible either on maps CS or LB+WW. Horley has Gatwick or Redhill as routing points. Using Gatwick as the routing point it seems to me that travel is allowed Gatwick to Wanborough (1 station past Guildford) routed via either Gomshall or Clapham Junction.

I'm seeing a fare of £81 quoted, of course this is a lot more than the fare from Croydon to Guildford via Redhill. Croydon to Wanborough does not permit travel via Redhill.

It's price versus convenience but this is the fare I might choose if I could afford it as it makes travel both more flexible and more interesting.

So via Redhill is cheapest. About £10 more to travel only via Clapham Junction. If I'm correct, it's a further £12 more to travel via either using the season ticket I've mentioned. But as the rules are so complicated perhaps someone else can confirm that this is valid.
 

GodAtum

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Thanks for all the advice. I bought a Croydon - Guildford Not via London return for £19.50 from the counter. Hopefully I'll get a seat to Guildford, I know i wont from East Croydon to Clapham!
 

GodAtum

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In regard to season tickets, there does not seem to be an option for a 1st class weekly via Clapham? The only option seems to be via Redhill.
 

John @ home

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I think this may be due to the recommended ticket being the First Class Guildford - London Zones 2-6 Travelcard.
 

John @ home

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So do I need to buy 2 separate tickets: East Croydon - Clapham and Clapham - Guildford?
No. This is not the first time we have debated East Croydon - Guildford via Clapham Jn season tickets.

To travel daily from East Croydon - Guildford via Clapham Jn, buy a Guildford - Clapham Jn route Not Via London season ticket. This is valid via Woking or Claygate or Croydon Stations. You can therefore use it to travel East Croydon - Guildford via Clapham Jn. A First Class weekly season costs £110.10, saving £29 compared with a First Class Guildford - London Zones 2-6 route Clandon/Woking Travelcard.
 
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GodAtum

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No. This is not the first time we have debated East Croydon - Guildford via Clapham Jn season tickets.

To travel daily from East Croydon - Guildford via Clapham Jn, buy an East Croydon - Clapham Jn route Not Via London season ticket. This is valid via Woking or Claygate or Croydon Stations. You can therefore use it to travel East Croydon - Guildford via Clapham Jn. A First Class weekly season costs £110.10, saving £29 compared with a First Class Guildford - London Zones 2-6 route Clandon/Woking Travelcard.
Thanks. How much would a standard class ticket be for this route?
 
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