East Kilbride/Barrhead electrification updates

[clc]

Bit disappointing that it’s not full doubling.

 

[route101]

Might be too soon to tell, but would this project result in ScotRail being able to get rid of some more 156s, or would the units made surplus by EMUs simply be deployed elsewhere?

Id say likely. As these are the busiest 156 routes in Scotland?

Bit disappointing that it’s not full doubling.

I thought that would be too good to be true.

 

[DorkingMain]

Long overdue, the 8-car EMUs suggests either cascading in 380s or more likely a new-build?

Better than suggestions in other threads that EK would end up with 318/320s anyway

There's a ton of 350s and 379s going spare down south very soon, I don't know if any home has been found for them yet.

 

[Class 170101]

I would like to see earlier and later services. 2317 is way too early for last train.

Unless a train crew depot opens there and a unit is stabled there overnight, I can't see it myself.

 

[hexagon789]

There's a ton of 350s and 379s going spare down south very soon, I don't know if any home has been found for them yet.

I guess 350s might do fully re-seated to 2+2 throughout.

 

[NoMorePacers]

Id say likely. As these are the busiest 156 routes in Scotland?

I do believe so, given the other 156 routes in Scotland are the West Highland Line, the Glasgow & South Western and Kilmarnock-Stranraer.

 

[hexagon789]

I do believe so, given the other 156 routes in Scotland are the West Highland Line, the Glasgow & South Western and Kilmarnock-Stranraer.

Stranraer is pretty quiet now the Northern Ireland ferries don't go from its port anymore.

 

[ld0595]

I'm also disappointed that it wont be redoubled throughout and hope it wont have significant impacts on the resilience. Investment in the EK line is long overdue though, so it's good to finally see more doubling and electrification.

It's surprising that Transport Scotland are only aiming for 4tph during the peaks - I would've expected 4tph throughout the day, perhaps reducing to 2 or 3tph after 10pm or so. There's very little chance of Scotrail adding a new fleet type - realistically it'll be additional 385s or cascaded 380s rather than 350s or 379s.

 

[Speed43125]

cascaded 380s

There aren't any other 380s. Presumably they share a good deal with other Desiros though?

 

[hexagon789]

I'm also disappointed that it wont be redoubled throughout and hope it wont have significant impacts on the resilience. Investment in the EK line is long overdue though, so it's good to finally see more doubling and electrification.

It's surprising that Transport Scotland are only aiming for 4tph during the peaks - I would've expected 4tph throughout the day, perhaps reducing to 2 or 3tph after 10pm or so. There's very little chance of Scotrail adding a new fleet type - realistically it'll be additional 385s or cascaded 380s rather than 350s or 379s.

Depending on train lengths I'm not sure 4tph is really necessary off-peak.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I think Hitachi have been pushing battery 385s towards Transport Scotland for some time and are probably looking for work for Newton Aycliffe so they may be available quite quickly. Once the line has been electrified they could be moved elsewhere such as the Fife Circle to reduce emissions there. It could even mean avoiding putting up wires on the Forth Bridge.

I've said previously and will undoubtedly have to do so again, wiring the bridge isn't particularly difficult. The paperwork for the heritage people will be worse than anything else.

And I'm also getting fed up repeating this - you can't just throw battery units at a random route, feeding arrangements and the provision of charging infrastructure is complicated and what battery units need does not always align with the finished electrification requirements.

 

[MadMac]

I'm also disappointed that it wont be redoubled throughout and hope it wont have significant impacts on the resilience.

I don't think it's ever been double beyond Busby.

 

[ld0595]

There aren't any other 380s. Presumably they share a good deal with other Desiros though?

I should've been clearer! I meant 380s freed up by additional 385s. I'd be surprised if we didn't see a follow up order to cover the EK and Barrhead lines when they're electrified.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I should've been clearer! I meant 380s freed up by additional 385s. I'd be surprised if we didn't see a follow up order to cover the EK and Barrhead lines when they're electrified.

I'd expect a follow-on order for more Class 385 units, but I expect it will be a large 100 unit order to replace Class 318 and Class 320 units, and to provide additional stock for further electrification (not just East Kilbride and Barrhead). I still expect the EKB routes to initially be served by another reformation of redundant Class 321 units into a further batch of 3 car Class 320/4 units, despite the suggestions of battery units.

That said, knowing procurement rules, the acquisition of battery units may be to allow the easier procurement of a small number of additional Class 385 units from Hitachi (or a deal with another manufacturer), possibly under some sort of agreement whereby the stock isn't actually procured by ScotRail but is provided by a manufacturer as part of a Government funded research project.

 

[ScotRail158725]

I'd expect a follow-on order for more Class 385 units, but I expect it will be a large 100 unit order to replace Class 318 and Class 320 units, and to provide additional stock for further electrification (not just East Kilbride and Barrhead). I still expect the EKB routes to initially be served by another reformation of redundant Class 321 units into a further batch of 3 car Class 320/4 units, despite the suggestions of battery units.

i see the next franchise ordering 6 car units to replace 318/320/334s and for new electrified routes such as EKL/Barrhead

 

[hwl]

I've said previously and will undoubtedly have to do so again, wiring the bridge isn't particularly difficult. The paperwork for the heritage people will be worse than anything else.

And I'm also getting fed up repeating this - you can't just throw battery units at a random route, feeding arrangements and the provision of charging infrastructure is complicated and what battery units need does not always align with the finished electrification requirements.

+1 (but what do us engineers know!)

 

[paul1609]

+1 (but what do us engineers know!)

But surely the East Grinstead Line can cope with 12 car battery electrostars coming off the Uckfield Line with nearly flat batteries and drawing full power all the way to London Bridge! This is apparently the basis that the current class 171s are to be cascaded to EMR next year (despite GTR saying the plan isn't feasible).
Obviously 1980s dc electrification was a lot more robust than this Scottish AC stuff.

 

[DorkingMain]

But surely the East Grinstead Line can cope with 12 car battery electrostars coming off the Uckfield Line with nearly flat batteries and drawing full power all the way to London Bridge! This is apparently the basis that the current class 171s are to be cascaded to EMR next year (despite GTR saying the plan isn't feasible).
Obviously 1980s dc electrification was a lot more robust than this Scottish AC stuff.

Without meaning to go too off-topic, it seems that the DfT are putting far too much stock in battery-electric technology without any actual thought as to whether it works (including in the case of Scottish electrification). Surely the most sensible place to test it would be a short branch line where trains can have a long layover at an electrified station (e.g. Reading to Basingstoke branch with layover at Reading).

It is all very well the Scottish government proclaiming that they are going to entirely decarbonise the entire Scottish railway, but unless there's proven infrastructure that would allow them to do so it's a non-starter and bi-modes are the next most realistic option for electrified to non-electrified working.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I've said previously and will undoubtedly have to do so again, wiring the bridge isn't particularly difficult. The paperwork for the heritage people will be worse than anything else.

Yes I have been giving this a lot of thought. At work with all our chemical tanks, we have them properly bunded (not a typo) and then to keep everyone happy we just drive a 6 foot long 3/4 inch diameter copper rod in the ground, attach a colored earth wire from the rod to the tank and the authorities are happy that it is properly earth bonded (also not a typo). With the Forth Bridge being a World Heritage site, I bet even the earth (equipotential) bonding arrangements will come under scrutiny from the heritage authorities.

 

[gingertom]

I bet even the earth (equipotential) bonding arrangements will come under scrutiny from the heritage authorities.

because the lovely red paint will need to be scraped away in a couple of places to permit the necessary low impedance bond to be firmly attached to the exposed metal. It could always be repainted after the connection is made though....

 

[route101]

I'm also disappointed that it wont be redoubled throughout and hope it wont have significant impacts on the resilience. Investment in the EK line is long overdue though, so it's good to finally see more doubling and electrification.

It's surprising that Transport Scotland are only aiming for 4tph during the peaks - I would've expected 4tph throughout the day, perhaps reducing to 2 or 3tph after 10pm or so. There's very little chance of Scotrail adding a new fleet type - realistically it'll be additional 385s or cascaded 380s rather than 350s or 379s.

Yeah, basically no increase unless it's more a clock face pattern. I'd like later and earlier services, even Ayr service gets into Glasgow before the first East Kilbride.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I'd expect a follow-on order for more Class 385 units, but I expect it will be a large 100 unit order to replace Class 318 and Class 320 units, and to provide additional stock for further electrification (not just East Kilbride and Barrhead). I still expect the EKB routes to initially be served by another reformation of redundant Class 321 units into a further batch of 3 car Class 320/4 units, despite the suggestions of battery units.

That said, knowing procurement rules, the acquisition of battery units may be to allow the easier procurement of a small number of additional Class 385 units from Hitachi (or a deal with another manufacturer), possibly under some sort of agreement whereby the stock isn't actually procured by ScotRail but is provided by a manufacturer as part of a Government funded research project.

I think now that the whole of Scotland map and electrification desires is out there, it will give confidence to suppliers for not just East Kilbride and Barrhead . The fact that 385s are performing well in Scotland bodes well for Scotland, Hitachi and other suppliers too.

 

[Southsider]

Some updates in this publication. Apologies if it’s already been posted.
https://scotlandsrailway.com/projec...m6kYjsogDRKt3dwCayTusXli5trvGU67RxgKQKQGQPGU8

 

[route101]

Some updates in this publication. Apologies if it’s already been posted.
https://scotlandsrailway.com/projec...m6kYjsogDRKt3dwCayTusXli5trvGU67RxgKQKQGQPGU8

At stage 1. I've noticed ground investigations being undertaken along the line. The vegetation clearance is at advanced stage by the looks of it. Bit miffed at the four trains an hour at peaks, its already that frequency. Is 2023 a ballpark year when its complete?

 

[Ianno87]

A Bit miffed at the four trains an hour at peaks, its already that frequency.

Not at every station it's not.

 

[waverley47]

I think the goal is at least 2tph in the peaks all stops from Barrhead and East Kilbride, with a further 2tph from both semi-fast. This gives 4tph at all stations between Glasgow and Busby jn, with the semi fasts picking up the stops to make 3tph at least at all stops up the branch.

One at least of the Barrhead trains goes through to Kilmarnock, but not sure about the other. Eventually, both Barrhead semi fasts should be heading further south giving at least 2tph through to Kilmarnock, but electrification further south may mean this is revisited.

The ultimate goal is of course electrification through to Carlisle, giving quicker journey times down the line, however capacity is as always limited by platform space at Central.

 

[Ianno87]

I think the goal is at least 2tph in the peaks all stops from Barrhead and East Kilbride, with a further 2tph from both semi-fast. This gives 4tph at all stations between Glasgow and Busby jn, with the semi fasts picking up the stops to make 3tph at least at all stops up the branch.

One at least of the Barrhead trains goes through to Kilmarnock, but not sure about the other. Eventually, both Barrhead semi fasts should be heading further south giving at least 2tph through to Kilmarnock, but electrification further south may mean this is revisited.

The ultimate goal is of course electrification through to Carlisle, giving quicker journey times down the line, however capacity is as always limited by platform space at Central.

No, it's a total of 4tph at Barrhead:
-2tph terminate Barrhead
-2tph go through to Kilmarnock, of which roughly 1tph or so carries on beyond.

 

[route101]

Not at every station it's not.

I see, still reckon every 20 mins during the day would be a welcome upgrade and perhaps some earlier services into Glasgow and some later services!

 

[waverley47]

No, it's a total of 4tph at Barrhead:
-2tph terminate Barrhead
-2tph go through to Kilmarnock, of which roughly 1tph or so carries on beyo

That's what I thought but I probably wrote it poorly. 2tph all stops to Barrhead and 2tph semi fast, one through to killi. I didn't realise that the other was still planned to continue through but that is good to know.

Eventually the plan is to put one of the Barrhead terminators through as a stopper to Kilmarnock, and speeding up one of the semi fasts, to give 2tph stopping along the route and 1tph fast, which will be the one that gets extended hourly to Dumfries and Carlisle in the eventual timetable.

 

[Altnabreac]

I can see it’s a shame that it’s not aiming to deliver 4tph to EK all day immediately but as far as I can see the only obstacles to that happening in future will be platform capacity at Central.

The proposed infrastructure on the EK branch ticks all the boxes of what I wanted to see delivered:
Electrification - Yes
Extended 8 x 23m platforms - Yes (though just says extended so exact lengths unclear)
Full doubling Busby - EK - Yes
2nd platform at Thorntonhall - Yes
New station at Hairmyres - Yes

I was hoping we’d get 3-4 of those things but it suggests we’re getting all of them which if true is excellent news.