East Midlands franchise won by Abellio

[DarloRich]

Though it is up to interpretation.

Yes, it is open to interpretation. it could just as easily mean Derby to Leicester which is much more likely in my mind.

 

[DanTrain]

I would also have thought that there would be some kind of clause in the franchise agreement to ensure that there isn't an abuse of market power resulting from the fact that passengers from as far afield as Hereford and Sheffield will now have the same parent company flogging tickets to London, and in particular for places like Burton-upon-Trent or Derby where the option is, broadly speaking, now going to be Abellio (WMT) or Abellio (EMR)! I wonder if a similar sort of clause was inserted when FirstGroup got SWR?

I don't know about this, certaintly Stagecoach were running all three mainlines north of London (WCML, MML and ECML) for a while so it's hardly unheard of but would be nice if they had thought to put such a clause in.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That would be more sensible than all the way to Sheffield. One can hope.

Given that the two trial trains on the market at the moment are a Class 230 derivative (not suitable at all) or a Class 321 derivative (not suitable for the MML proper, but perfectly fine for Corby) that would seem likely to be the case.

 

[LeeLivery]

Yes, it is open to interpretation. it could just as easily mean Derby to Leicester which is much more likely in my mind.

Given that the two trial trains on the market at the moment are a Class 230 derivative (not suitable at all) or a Class 321 derivative (not suitable for the MML proper, but perfectly fine for Corby) that would seem likely to be the case.

Ah alright, worry averted. These last few years has made me automatically think the most unlikely scenarios are most likely.

 

[DarloRich]

Ah alright, worry averted. These last few years has made me automatically think the most unlikely scenarios are most likely.

we are, of course, relying on logic to take such a view. As the railway can be quite illogical at times........................

 

[jw]

The route specific details are now on the DfT website.

Confirms Liverpool to Nottingham transferring away from this franchise. Service reworked as Derby to Norwich.

Also mentions for Nottingham:

• from May 2020, modern diesel trains will replace some aging HSTs.
• brand-new 125mph trains will be introduced into service from April 2022

So a stop-gap measure to replace or supplement HSTs is on the way, or perhaps a reshuffle of the Meridians?

 

[MidlandMainlie]

Looking at the improvements for Nottingham-London looks like displaced 222's from Corby electrification will be used to replace some HST's from May next year but full replacement won't be till April 2022

Nottingham - London
Benefits include:

• from May 2020, modern diesel trains will replace some aging HSTs. Timetable changes will enable faster journey times from December 2020
• an additional train to Kettering will increase services to 2 per hour
• earlier and later train service each day to East Midlands Parkway enabling better airport connectivity
• brand-new 125mph trains will be introduced into service from April 2022 with:
  • more reliable service
  • improved comfort
  • passenger information system
  • free on-board Wi-Fi
  • at-seat power sockets
  • USB points
  • air conditioning
  • tables at all seats
  • increased luggage space
  • on-board cycle storage

 

[ainsworth74]

Same message for Sheffield - London. Surely there aren't going to be enough 222s released from Corby for that?

 

[43074]

The route specific details are now on the DfT website.

Confirms Liverpool to Nottingham transferring away from this franchise. Service reworked as Derby to Norwich.

Also mentions for Nottingham:

• from May 2020, modern diesel trains will replace some aging HSTs.
• brand-new 125mph trains will be introduced into service from April 2022

So a stop-gap measure to replace or supplement HSTs is on the way, or perhaps a reshuffle of the Meridians?

Crewe to Derby services are also extended to Nottingham. Looks much more conservative than previous Abellio franchise bids.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Same message for Sheffield - London. Surely there aren't going to be enough 222s released from Corby for that?

I think that is why for Nottingham it says replace 'Some' HSTs. Sounds like they are accepting the HSTs will have to continue.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Crewe to Derby services are also extended to Nottingham. Looks much more conservative than previous Abellio franchise bids.

To be fair, we have had some many ambitious franchises that have failed to deliver. Northern, TPE, Scotrail (in some regards) & Virgin East Coast, I would rather have something realistic.

 

[NoMorePacers]

Oh well. Got to make use of the cheap Megabus tickets to London while they last.

 

[hwl]

Given that the two trial trains on the market at the moment are a Class 230 derivative (not suitable at all) or a Class 321 derivative (not suitable for the MML proper, but perfectly fine for Corby) that would seem likely to be the case.

And 769001 from Porterbrook as a third

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Is it just me or is the announcement also a bit cagey about the "new intercity fleet"? Previously they've been very big on talking about bi-modes in relation to that so it seems odd that they've suddenly removed that language from their lexicon. Though I see the DfT has taken even further leave of its senses and requires a hydrogen fuel cell trial to be undertaken. Also no word on Liverpool - Norwich as yet! I guess that may have to wait for more detail (which is another departure from the past when we used to get shiny info-graphics and maps with details).



Definitely seems like they'll be keeping some of the current fleet doesn't it? I would assume that the 156s and 158s will be staying (hopefully refurbished!) and I bet these hydrogen fuel cell trains are going to be for 153 replacement.

Hydrogen trial is to do with the Midland Main Line, so one assumes Intercity stuff.

 

[Glenn1969]

Plenty of improved services ahead

Hourly Doncaster to Lincoln and Peterborough

Hourly Newark to Lincoln combined with East Coast

2tph Nottingham to Kettering

Improved Sunday services on most routes

Transfer of Barton Line from Northern is definitely happening

Diversion of Norwich service to Derby instead of Liverpool with Nottingham to Liverpool going to another operator is still happening (TPE?)

I wonder whether they can deliver these changes?

 

[hwl]

Hydrogen trial is to do with the Midland Main Line, so one assumes Intercity stuff.

The recent RSSB and ImechE Hydrogen work rules it out for anything above 75mph and long range hence I'd expect MML stopping service somewhere as other have already said.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The route specific details are now on the DfT website.

Confirms Liverpool to Nottingham transferring away from this franchise. Service reworked as Derby to Norwich.

So does that pretty much confirm the future of the remaining Class 185s then, assuming the Irish don't get there first?

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Some concerns that spring to mind:
- What sort of fleet will be available for the Corby service, particularly if 12 car and therefore likely to be lashed up from 4 car units (and therefore not a proper Intercity service).
- Why are we seeing so many more services between Derby and Nottingham that have to make a reversal. Is it not the case that the Matlock, new Derby - Norwich and half-hourly Cross Country is enough for this market place and therefore enough before we stuff in more paths and add points for punctuality loss?
- This talk of Nottingham getting an extra service to Kettering (I assume to make the stopping service half-hourly) is probably to connect into the Corby electrics. But what does that do for the existing fast Nottingham?

 

[hwl]

Some concerns that spring to mind:
- What sort of fleet will be available for the Corby service, particularly if 12 car and therefore likely to be lashed up from 4 car units (and therefore not a proper Intercity service).
- Why are we seeing so many more services between Derby and Nottingham that have to make a reversal. Is it not the case that the Matlock, new Derby - Norwich and half-hourly Cross Country is enough for this market place and therefore enough before we stuff in more paths and add points for punctuality loss?
- This talk of Nottingham getting an extra service to Kettering (I assume to make the stopping service half-hourly) is probably to connect into the Corby electrics. But what does that do for the existing fast Nottingham?

Corby
350/2 or 379s

 

[bunnahabhain]

I think that is why for Nottingham it says replace 'Some' HSTs. Sounds like they are accepting the HSTs will have to continue.

I suspect that will tie in with the Corby electrification, freeing up 3 x 222s to replace the 3 x Angel HST sets, leaving the full sized HSTs to soldier on for a few more years.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

So does that pretty much confirm the future of the remaining Class 185s then, assuming the Irish don't get there first?

Well the thing is even with the current long turn arounds, it’s a maximum of 8 diagrams. Unless they’re all going to be 6 coaches, why would they want 22 (?) units? Unless, of course, they will use them on other routes such as Nottingham - Crewe and Nottingham - Grimsby.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Corby
350/2 or 379s

Or 360s, of course? They only need to be 100mph.

 

[aiden_g1]

So i'm presuming 'East Midlands Railway' will be the new brand name for the railway, in-line with most other re-franchised TOCs?

 

[hwl]

Or 360s, of course? They only need to be 100mph.

Indeed but gangway connections would be useful to aid ticket checks. With OHLE upgrades south of Bedford 110mph EMUs are sensible

 

[Failed Unit]

Interesting that only Doncaster - Lincoln seems worthy of a Sunday service but the busier Peterborough- Lincoln doesn’t

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Indeed but gangway connections would be useful to aid ticket checks. With OHLE upgrades south of Bedford 110mph EMUs are sensible

To only get stuck among other 100mph units that ‘rule the roost’ there hence my assertion 100mph will be fine...

 

[Bletchleyite]

- What sort of fleet will be available for the Corby service, particularly if 12 car and therefore likely to be lashed up from 4 car units (and therefore not a proper Intercity service).

350/2? A service like the LNR Birmingham service would seem entirely suitable and will be the low-cost, high-capacity, basic but comfortable service that is needed. It doesn't need a "true" InterCity service any more than Northampton does.

All Class 350s are now 110mph units, by the way. I'd imagine the same mod could be done to any other 20m OHLE Desiro easily enough.

Or are the StanEx Electrostars (an easy Abellio-Abellio transfer) 4x20m?

 

[samuelmorris]

'New 125mph trains' for the mainline dictates Bi-mode I imagine. I can't see DfT signing off on high-speed express DMUs for a route that's electrified for that much of its length. The question is whether it's an adaptation of the IEP, a 125mph Bi-mode version of the 745 or something else entirely. Given Abellio's approach to Anglia I think the former is probably unlikely.
'Refurbished modern 12-car express trains' - so not 125mph and not new build, suggests 379, 360/1 or 350/2 I imagine. Unless heaven forbid they transfer the 321 Renatus fleet instead! December 2020 does tie in with the (original) proposed withdrawal date of the Anglia fleet.

No mention of change of stock for what's left of Norwich - Liverpool, so I imagine the 158s are staying put, which makes sense.
The smaller routes all list 'refurbished modern trains' - make of that what you will but I suspect inclusion of the term modern excludes 153s and 156s. What's left for them to use, 175s? ex-LNWR 170s?

 

[4-SUB 4732]

I’d obviously prefer to see the 350/2 or 360 used on MML. With this BatteryFlex nonsense, does it make it possible for a peak service to do St Pancras - Corby on the wires then do batteries Corby - Oakham - Mowbray - Leicester - Market Harborough and back onto the wires?

 

[4-SUB 4732]

(Still hoping 379s go to GN / LNER for the Kings Lynn route as those 387s are woeful but that’s off topic and wishful thinking...)