East Midlands franchise won by Abellio

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by InTheEastMids, 10 Apr 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

    Messages:
    23,350
    Joined:
    12 Oct 2010
    Location:
    Work - Fenny Stratford(MK) Home - Darlington
    Yes, it is open to interpretation. it could just as easily mean Derby to Leicester which is much more likely in my mind.
     
  2. DanTrain

    DanTrain Member

    Messages:
    750
    Joined:
    9 Jul 2017
    Location:
    Sheffield
    I don't know about this, certaintly Stagecoach were running all three mainlines north of London (WCML, MML and ECML) for a while so it's hardly unheard of but would be nice if they had thought to put such a clause in.
     
  3. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

    Messages:
    46,923
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
    Given that the two trial trains on the market at the moment are a Class 230 derivative (not suitable at all) or a Class 321 derivative (not suitable for the MML proper, but perfectly fine for Corby) that would seem likely to be the case.
     
  4. LeeLivery

    LeeLivery Member

    Messages:
    1,077
    Joined:
    13 Jul 2014
    Location:
    London
    Ah alright, worry averted. These last few years has made me automatically think the most unlikely scenarios are most likely.
     
  5. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

    Messages:
    23,350
    Joined:
    12 Oct 2010
    Location:
    Work - Fenny Stratford(MK) Home - Darlington
    we are, of course, relying on logic to take such a view. As the railway can be quite illogical at times........................
     
  6. jw

    jw Member

    Messages:
    134
    Joined:
    25 Jul 2010
    The route specific details are now on the DfT website.

    Confirms Liverpool to Nottingham transferring away from this franchise. Service reworked as Derby to Norwich.

    Also mentions for Nottingham:
    • from May 2020, modern diesel trains will replace some aging HSTs.
    • brand-new 125mph trains will be introduced into service from April 2022
    So a stop-gap measure to replace or supplement HSTs is on the way, or perhaps a reshuffle of the Meridians?
     
    Last edited: 10 Apr 2019
  7. MidlandMainlie

    MidlandMainlie Member

    Messages:
    661
    Joined:
    5 Aug 2011
    Looking at the improvements for Nottingham-London looks like displaced 222's from Corby electrification will be used to replace some HST's from May next year but full replacement won't be till April 2022

    Nottingham - London
    Benefits include:

    • from May 2020, modern diesel trains will replace some aging HSTs. Timetable changes will enable faster journey times from December 2020
    • an additional train to Kettering will increase services to 2 per hour
    • earlier and later train service each day to East Midlands Parkway enabling better airport connectivity
    • brand-new 125mph trains will be introduced into service from April 2022 with:
      • more reliable service
      • improved comfort
      • passenger information system
      • free on-board Wi-Fi
      • at-seat power sockets
      • USB points
      • air conditioning
      • tables at all seats
      • increased luggage space
      • on-board cycle storage
     
  8. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Forum Staff Staff Member Global Moderator

    Messages:
    21,329
    Joined:
    16 Nov 2009
    Location:
    Redcar
    Same message for Sheffield - London. Surely there aren't going to be enough 222s released from Corby for that?
     
  9. 43074

    43074 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,629
    Joined:
    10 Oct 2012
    Crewe to Derby services are also extended to Nottingham. Looks much more conservative than previous Abellio franchise bids.
     
  10. YorkshireBear

    YorkshireBear Established Member

    Messages:
    7,713
    Joined:
    23 Jul 2010
    I think that is why for Nottingham it says replace 'Some' HSTs. Sounds like they are accepting the HSTs will have to continue.
     
  11. YorkshireBear

    YorkshireBear Established Member

    Messages:
    7,713
    Joined:
    23 Jul 2010
    To be fair, we have had some many ambitious franchises that have failed to deliver. Northern, TPE, Scotrail (in some regards) & Virgin East Coast, I would rather have something realistic.
     
  12. NoMorePacers

    NoMorePacers Member

    Messages:
    885
    Joined:
    18 Feb 2016
    Location:
    Hull
    Oh well. Got to make use of the cheap Megabus tickets to London while they last.
     
  13. hwl

    hwl Established Member

    Messages:
    5,053
    Joined:
    5 Feb 2012
    And 769001 from Porterbrook as a third
     
  14. 4-SUB 4732

    4-SUB 4732 Member

    Messages:
    827
    Joined:
    7 Jan 2018
    Hydrogen trial is to do with the Midland Main Line, so one assumes Intercity stuff.
     
  15. Glenn1969

    Glenn1969 Member

    Messages:
    884
    Joined:
    22 Jan 2019
    Plenty of improved services ahead

    Hourly Doncaster to Lincoln and Peterborough

    Hourly Newark to Lincoln combined with East Coast

    2tph Nottingham to Kettering

    Improved Sunday services on most routes

    Transfer of Barton Line from Northern is definitely happening

    Diversion of Norwich service to Derby instead of Liverpool with Nottingham to Liverpool going to another operator is still happening (TPE?)

    I wonder whether they can deliver these changes?
     
  16. hwl

    hwl Established Member

    Messages:
    5,053
    Joined:
    5 Feb 2012
    The recent RSSB and ImechE Hydrogen work rules it out for anything above 75mph and long range hence I'd expect MML stopping service somewhere as other have already said.
     
  17. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

    Messages:
    46,923
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
    So does that pretty much confirm the future of the remaining Class 185s then, assuming the Irish don't get there first?
     
  18. 4-SUB 4732

    4-SUB 4732 Member

    Messages:
    827
    Joined:
    7 Jan 2018
    Some concerns that spring to mind:
    - What sort of fleet will be available for the Corby service, particularly if 12 car and therefore likely to be lashed up from 4 car units (and therefore not a proper Intercity service).
    - Why are we seeing so many more services between Derby and Nottingham that have to make a reversal. Is it not the case that the Matlock, new Derby - Norwich and half-hourly Cross Country is enough for this market place and therefore enough before we stuff in more paths and add points for punctuality loss?
    - This talk of Nottingham getting an extra service to Kettering (I assume to make the stopping service half-hourly) is probably to connect into the Corby electrics. But what does that do for the existing fast Nottingham?
     
  19. hwl

    hwl Established Member

    Messages:
    5,053
    Joined:
    5 Feb 2012
    Corby
    350/2 or 379s
     
  20. bunnahabhain

    bunnahabhain Established Member

    Messages:
    1,788
    Joined:
    8 Jun 2005
    I suspect that will tie in with the Corby electrification, freeing up 3 x 222s to replace the 3 x Angel HST sets, leaving the full sized HSTs to soldier on for a few more years.
     
  21. 4-SUB 4732

    4-SUB 4732 Member

    Messages:
    827
    Joined:
    7 Jan 2018
    Well the thing is even with the current long turn arounds, it’s a maximum of 8 diagrams. Unless they’re all going to be 6 coaches, why would they want 22 (?) units? Unless, of course, they will use them on other routes such as Nottingham - Crewe and Nottingham - Grimsby.
     
  22. 4-SUB 4732

    4-SUB 4732 Member

    Messages:
    827
    Joined:
    7 Jan 2018
    Or 360s, of course? They only need to be 100mph.
     
  23. aiden_g1

    aiden_g1 Member

    Messages:
    38
    Joined:
    17 Dec 2015
    So i'm presuming 'East Midlands Railway' will be the new brand name for the railway, in-line with most other re-franchised TOCs?
     
  24. hwl

    hwl Established Member

    Messages:
    5,053
    Joined:
    5 Feb 2012
    Indeed but gangway connections would be useful to aid ticket checks. With OHLE upgrades south of Bedford 110mph EMUs are sensible
     
  25. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

    Messages:
    7,493
    Joined:
    26 Jan 2009
    Location:
    Central Belt
    Interesting that only Doncaster - Lincoln seems worthy of a Sunday service but the busier Peterborough- Lincoln doesn’t
     
  26. 4-SUB 4732

    4-SUB 4732 Member

    Messages:
    827
    Joined:
    7 Jan 2018
    To only get stuck among other 100mph units that ‘rule the roost’ there hence my assertion 100mph will be fine...
     
  27. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

    Messages:
    46,923
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
    350/2? A service like the LNR Birmingham service would seem entirely suitable and will be the low-cost, high-capacity, basic but comfortable service that is needed. It doesn't need a "true" InterCity service any more than Northampton does.

    All Class 350s are now 110mph units, by the way. I'd imagine the same mod could be done to any other 20m OHLE Desiro easily enough.

    Or are the StanEx Electrostars (an easy Abellio-Abellio transfer) 4x20m?
     
  28. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

    Messages:
    4,329
    Joined:
    18 Jul 2013
    Location:
    Brentwood, Essex
    'New 125mph trains' for the mainline dictates Bi-mode I imagine. I can't see DfT signing off on high-speed express DMUs for a route that's electrified for that much of its length. The question is whether it's an adaptation of the IEP, a 125mph Bi-mode version of the 745 or something else entirely. Given Abellio's approach to Anglia I think the former is probably unlikely.
    'Refurbished modern 12-car express trains' - so not 125mph and not new build, suggests 379, 360/1 or 350/2 I imagine. Unless heaven forbid they transfer the 321 Renatus fleet instead! December 2020 does tie in with the (original) proposed withdrawal date of the Anglia fleet.

    No mention of change of stock for what's left of Norwich - Liverpool, so I imagine the 158s are staying put, which makes sense.
    The smaller routes all list 'refurbished modern trains' - make of that what you will but I suspect inclusion of the term modern excludes 153s and 156s. What's left for them to use, 175s? ex-LNWR 170s?
     
  29. 4-SUB 4732

    4-SUB 4732 Member

    Messages:
    827
    Joined:
    7 Jan 2018
    I’d obviously prefer to see the 350/2 or 360 used on MML. With this BatteryFlex nonsense, does it make it possible for a peak service to do St Pancras - Corby on the wires then do batteries Corby - Oakham - Mowbray - Leicester - Market Harborough and back onto the wires?
     
  30. 4-SUB 4732

    4-SUB 4732 Member

    Messages:
    827
    Joined:
    7 Jan 2018
    (Still hoping 379s go to GN / LNER for the Kings Lynn route as those 387s are woeful but that’s off topic and wishful thinking...)
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page