East Midlands franchise won by Abellio

[krus_aragon]

Market Ketteringborough? Wonder where that is.

It's probably somewhere that's making a very low-key bid to beat Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch at it's own game.

 

[Quakkerillo]

I feel SO SORRY FOR the passengers ABellio are a bunch of crooks and will probably lose Scotfail within a year,

I'm sorry, but I don't think your comments hold anywhere at all. In what way are they crooks? In what way are they being dishonest, or criminal? No company is ever perfect, but with what I have seen myself, and heard on here, I have not really seen much proof of them being willingly dishonest, or criminal in any way.
Yes, there are apparently issues on Scotrail, but what's going on there is far from 'crookery'.

 

[Failed Unit]

And I'm not sure that there's any particularly big flows that would make joining up worth it - with seperate services both Derby and Nottingham (the main markets) get links both east and west, with the side benefit of an extra train per hour betwewn Derby and Nottingham themselves.

Probably not. But when Lincoln - Birmingham was split, the cross Leicester flows were not large. But many of them moved to road.

Lincoln has campaigned for a more useful destination then Liecester ever since. Now they are quoting Grimsby - Nottingham lets hope that wish is partly filled.

Let’s also hope that the timetable is constructed in a way that connections useful. Grimsby can connect at Lincoln for London. If that is possible I don’t see the need for a daily Cleethorpes - Newark service.

Again now passengers crossing Lincoln between Grimsby and Nottingham are low. Hopefully the changes will alter that.

 

[Kite159]

Looking at the route map on the DFT website, seems to suggest that the 153s & 156s are on the way out (all the rural routes mention Air Con). I suspect they might end up with the 170s from West Midlands [probably not such a bad fit for Norwich - Nottingham/Derby services, certainly the 100mph could help out on the ECML section].

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

They have had problems with "insider trading" on their bus operations in the Netherlands.
Directors were fired.
But nothing affecting their UK operation.
Saying that a respected state railway is "a bunch of crooks" is daft.
Competition in the transport sector is a tough business, as Stagecoach will confirm.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Good to see the direct Melton/Oakham to St Pancras is continuing. I know it's mostly fresh air, but as an exiled Rutlander I have a patriotic attachment to the service, and trains over Harringworth Viaduct are always good.

 

[chubs]

A split in the Norwich - Liverpool service is a real backwards step.

Although a lot on here try and claim everyone just goes via London whenever it's discussed as a semi regular user of the service I see the opposite. Really disappointing.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

I think most of the regional fleet is going. Nottingham to Grimsby is very interesting and welcomed and daily services to Newark NG and Nottingham from Cleethorpes. Good news for Lincolnshire

 

[153375]

New franchise is definitely going to be East Midlands Railway, currently on 156415 and the PIS is showing “welcome aboard this East Midlands Railway service”. Would this have already been programmed in or manually entered by train crew ?

 

[Aictos]

Just briefly but does Corby actually need 12 car services? At the moment, are they not 4 and 5 car services unless the plan is for those services to call at the likes of St Albans and Luton Airport Parkway as additional calls?

Just wondering why as it's not like they're classed as TL services which carry far more people and stop at more stations then the Corby services so wondered if it is actually a good use of resources when a 8 car would have been plenty.

Also can someone explain to me how splitting the Norwich to Liverpool Lime Street service is going to be good for the average passenger?

As to the Class 222/HST replacements, I only hope that what ever is chosen that they have plenty of grunt as from hearing various views on the Class 80Xs the Bi Modes seem to struggle on diesel compared to OHL so I hope that their performance is just as good if not better then the existing Class 222s.

 

[whhistle]

So i'm presuming 'East Midlands Railway' will be the new brand name for the railway, in-line with most other re-franchised TOCs?

Correct.
This was specified in the ITT.

 

[MikeWM]

A split in the Norwich - Liverpool service is a real backwards step.

Although a lot on here try and claim everyone just goes via London whenever it's discussed as a semi regular user of the service I see the opposite. Really disappointing.

Totally agree. I do Ely <-> Liverpool a few times a year and having a direct service is very helpful, even if it isn't always the way I choose to take.

I don't understand the supposedly joined-up thinking as why we have to have had Great Northern completely broken by folding into Thameslink ('because people don't like changing trains so we need direct services to as many destinations as possible') and at the same time this important East-West avoiding London link is broken ('because people don't mind changing trains after all' (?))

This service, or a variant of it, has run for many years, and people are used to using it.

An awful decision, sending even more people via London, or enduring a very inconvenient change at Nottingham.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

The 379s would have my bet with a quality interior etc. Fares are set on an Intercity basis from the Northants stations on the MML and are higher than the corresponding stations on the WCML. Consequently you'll never get away with providing suburban spec rolling stock without large fares cuts.

Logic rarely seems to have much to do with it when it comes to fares! Many things have been said to be something that the railway "won't get away with", and yet it does! I would be highly, highly surprised if anything changed with respect to the fares for the Market Ketteringborough area.

 

[hwl]

Just briefly but does Corby actually need 12 car services? At the moment, are they not 4 and 5 car services unless the plan is for those services to call at the likes of St Albans and Luton Airport Parkway as additional calls?

Just wondering why as it's not like they're classed as TL services which carry far more people and stop at more stations then the Corby services so wondered if it is actually a good use of resources when a 8 car would have been plenty.

Also can someone explain to me how splitting the Norwich to Liverpool Lime Street service is going to be good for the average passenger?

As to the Class 222/HST replacements, I only hope that what ever is chosen that they have plenty of grunt as from hearing various views on the Class 80Xs the Bi Modes seem to struggle on diesel compared to OHL so I hope that their performance is just as good if not better then the existing Class 222s.

As some StPancras to Derby or Nottingham services will have fewer stops the Corby service will be providing them instead, the Corby services (providing 2tph fast to Bedford) should see to the reinstatement of the stops removed from some TL Bedford services last May.

 

[samuelmorris]

Just briefly but does Corby actually need 12 car services? At the moment, are they not 4 and 5 car services unless the plan is for those services to call at the likes of St Albans and Luton Airport Parkway as additional calls?

Corby itself, no - but I imagine they want to maximise capacity for fast services to Luton and Bedford.

 

[43074]

Just briefly but does Corby actually need 12 car services? At the moment, are they not 4 and 5 car services unless the plan is for those services to call at the likes of St Albans and Luton Airport Parkway as additional calls?

At the moment these do not run in the peaks, the proposal is for them to run 2tph all day and for the InterCity services to run non-stop from Market Harborough or Kettering, so they need to be 12-car for the market South of Kettering (notably Bedford/Luton)

 

[4-SUB 4732]

I know Abellio have said the entire InterCity fleet will be replaced but to save decoupling and coupling at Nottingham, couldn't the 7-coach Class 222's be cascaded onto the Liverpool / Norwich routes? They're only around 15 years old, are less polluting and more reliable*. Only trouble is they're heavier which I guess means they can't go on that route.

*As regards the miles per technical incident, the 222's are almost 47,000 - 15x and HST's, altogether, are almost 10,000 to 12,000 roughly.

7 coaches is overkill. I’d suggest putting them back to being 9s and 4s and giving them over to Cross Country; or perhaps the fleet of 9 car 222s being used by another key Intercity operator where required.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Liverpool - Norwich is split at Nottingham with Liverpool - Nottingham going to a different franchise and Norwich - Nottingham being extended to Derby. I would suggest that that remaing stub within the EMR franchise is well suited to 158s and the new service in a different franchise is well suited to the twenty-two 185s that are soon to be homeless. Meanwhile the 222s are probably far more useful to a future XC franchise...

Admittedly a continuous 4-car 158 operation between Nottingham and Norwich is to be applauded; but the paths could be sped up and better paths obtained on the ECML if the trains were 185s / 170s and 100mph (3 car is still better than 2).

Obviously there is also a reasonable suggestion of the East Midlands franchises being in the frame for this obscure new Leicester - Derby - Stoke - Crewe - Liverpool service to bolster capacity on the Derby - Crewe line.

Would that and the Norwich route mean 185s would find a suitable home at Eastcroft / Etches Park?

 

[hwl]

Admittedly a continuous 4-car 158 operation between Nottingham and Norwich is to be applauded; but the paths could be sped up and better paths obtained on the ECML if the trains were 185s / 170s and 100mph (3 car is still better than 2).

Obviously there is also a reasonable suggestion of the East Midlands franchises being in the frame for this obscure new Leicester - Derby - Stoke - Crewe - Liverpool service to bolster capacity on the Derby - Crewe line.

Would that and the Norwich route mean 185s would find a suitable home at Eastcroft / Etches Park?

The rumours suggest 185 going to RoI

 

[4-SUB 4732]

The 379s would have my bet with a quality interior etc. Fares are set on an Intercity basis from the Northants stations on the MML and are higher than the corresponding stations on the WCML. Consequently you'll never get away with providing suburban spec rolling stock without large fares cuts.

In theory it’s 6 diagrams (maybe 7 if you add in padding) of 3 units so 18 units.

There’s 37 350/2s, 21 360s and 30 379s. In my mind, that makes the 360s a prime candidate and, let’s be honest, with 3 spare units and then a diagram being ‘cut out’ to allow a peak service operated by a new bi-mode north of Corby is more than sufficient. I’d like to think we will have that sensible level of spending on leasing.

 

[Ianno87]

Totally agree. I do Ely <-> Liverpool a few times a year and having a direct service is very helpful, even if it isn't always the way I choose to take.

I don't understand the supposedly joined-up thinking as why we have to have had Great Northern completely broken by folding into Thameslink ('because people don't like changing trains so we need direct services to as many destinations as possible') and at the same time this important East-West avoiding London link is broken ('because people don't mind changing trains after all' (?))

This service, or a variant of it, has run for many years, and people are used to using it.

An awful decision, sending even more people via London, or enduring a very inconvenient change at Nottingham.

You don't have to go via London. Anglia > Peterborough > Leeds > Manchester is just as quick, if not quicker. My nearly default route now.

You can't count on your fingers the cross-Nottingham passengers when I use the EMT.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Corby itself, no - but I imagine they want to maximise capacity for fast services to Luton and Bedford.

Definitely. And with a differential fare structure for Bedford and Luton on the ‘Intercity’ TOC with an uplift for journey time and quality (the 360s could be scrubbed up beautifully in theory) and the Government are laughing to the bank.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

In theory it’s 6 diagrams (maybe 7 if you add in padding) of 3 units so 18 units.

There’s 37 350/2s, 21 360s and 30 379s. In my mind, that makes the 360s a prime candidate and, let’s be honest, with 3 spare units and then a diagram being ‘cut out’ to allow a peak service operated by a new bi-mode north of Corby is more than sufficient. I’d like to think we will have that sensible level of spending on leasing.

Let's hope the ROSCOs see it that way... Wouldn't be surprised if they tried to chance their arm with the leasing costs and lose out again (just like they did with the 350/2s!).

 

[TheBigD]

Just briefly but does Corby actually need 12 car services? At the moment, are they not 4 and 5 car services unless the plan is for those services to call at the likes of St Albans and Luton Airport Parkway as additional calls?

Just wondering why as it's not like they're classed as TL services which carry far more people and stop at more stations then the Corby services so wondered if it is actually a good use of resources when a 8 car would have been plenty.

12 cars will be needed in the peaks as they will be full of Luton/Bedford commuters assuming the peak time stops that were taken out last year are put back in.

There is also a huge amount of housebuilding going on around the Corby area. Most of the old ironstone quarry sites are being built on (Little Stanion, Priors Hall Park, Weldon Park etc) with plans to build on the large Deenethorpe Airfield. There has also been more housebuilding around Oakley in the last few years. I wouldn't be surprised to see the A43 corridor from Kettering to Corby being developed in to housing/warehousing/business use.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

You don't have to go via London. Anglia > Peterborough > Leeds > Manchester is just as quick, if not quicker. My nearly default route now.

You can't count on your fingers the cross-Nottingham passengers when I use the EMT.

It would admittedly have been much nicer for the TOC to operate the service to Sheffield in my mind; but then again if there is a Liverpool to Nottingham and the connections are half-decent it wouldn’t be too problematic to change each way. As has been said, cross-Nottingham traffic is minimal.

 

[Table 52]

I wonder if there's a couple of things we're purposely not being told here. e.g. the benefits under the Corby service say Kettering, Luton & LParkway being served with 2tph for most of the day. I wonder why Wellingborough and Bedford aren't mentioned?
Could it be this new "Corby Express" is going to run Corby-Kettering then fast to Luton?

It's well known that the layout at Bedford makes it a pain in the arse to call at Southbound.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

I wonder if there's a couple of things we're purposely not being told here. e.g. the benefits under the Corby service say Kettering, Luton & LParkway being served with 2tph for most of the day. I wonder why Wellingborough and Bedford aren't mentioned?
Could it be this new "Corby Express" is going to run Corby-Kettering then fast to Luton?

It's well known that the layout at Bedford makes it a pain in the arse to call at Southbound.

Corby services will run half-hourly as Corby-Kettering-Wellingborough-Bedford-Luton Airport Parkway-Luton-London St Pancras

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Obviously there is also a reasonable suggestion of the East Midlands franchises being in the frame for this obscure new Leicester - Derby - Stoke - Crewe - Liverpool service to bolster capacity on the Derby - Crewe line.

Is that a real thing?

 

[Carlisle]

The 379s would have my bet with a quality interior etc. Fares are set on an Intercity basis from the Northants stations on the MML and are higher than the corresponding stations on the WCML. Consequently you'll never get away with providing suburban spec rolling stock without large fares cuts.

The argument whether Corby etc should have formal inter city spec services or simply accommodate some emu workings extended from Bedford goes back decades, i heard it around 1985 when electrification was first mooted

 

[londonmidland]

Obviously there is also a reasonable suggestion of the East Midlands franchises being in the frame for this obscure new Leicester - Derby - Stoke - Crewe - Liverpool service to bolster capacity on the Derby - Crewe line.

Has this new service proposal been mentioned online or is it just a speculation?