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East Midlands franchise won by Abellio

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4-SUB 4732

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I wonder if there's a couple of things we're purposely not being told here. e.g. the benefits under the Corby service say Kettering, Luton & LParkway being served with 2tph for most of the day. I wonder why Wellingborough and Bedford aren't mentioned?
Could it be this new "Corby Express" is going to run Corby-Kettering then fast to Luton?

It's well known that the layout at Bedford makes it a pain in the arse to call at Southbound.

Not sure. I suspect personally we’ll see:
2tph St Pan - Leicester - stations to Sheffield
2tph St Pan - Luton Airport - Kettering - Market H - Leicester - stations to Nottingham
2tph St Pan - Luton - Bedford - Wellingborough - Kettering - Corby.

So not a massive ‘enhancement’.
 
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A0wen

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Plenty of improved services ahead

2tph Nottingham to Kettering

Older readers will comment that this is just a return to the pre-Corby situation where Kettering had 2tph towards Leicester - it was dropped to 1 when the Corby's were introduced.

I notice Wellingborough isn't on course to get their second Leicester bound train reinstated though.
 

Andrew1395

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I use EMT a lot as my daughters family live in North East Nottingham. Normally I go from St Pancras but also use the stopper from Luton Airport Parkway. Overall I think the current service is good. Heresy for many, but I prefer the Meridian trains to the worn out HSTs which give a very bumpy ride IMHO. Those 222's are too good to be scrapped, and hopefully can be used to best advantage if no longer required for the MML. So I think Abellio will need to work hard to give a better service, which in recent years has principally been impacted by infrastructure works. A better pattern of services for EastMidlands Parkway would be good (daughter used to be at the Sutton Bonnigton campus site), and the St Pancras platform circulating area is a bit frugal. One thing we have noticed is how poor the train service from Nottingham to Manchester is, don't know enough about how that could be improved, or other selfish options that would like to see better services from Nottingham to Doncaster, but all in all Stagecoach can hold the head up high with EMT.
 
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61653 HTAFC

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Admittedly a continuous 4-car 158 operation between Nottingham and Norwich is to be applauded; but the paths could be sped up and better paths obtained on the ECML if the trains were 185s / 170s and 100mph (3 car is still better than 2).

Obviously there is also a reasonable suggestion of the East Midlands franchises being in the frame for this obscure new Leicester - Derby - Stoke - Crewe - Liverpool service to bolster capacity on the Derby - Crewe line.

Would that and the Norwich route mean 185s would find a suitable home at Eastcroft / Etches Park?
185s no good East of Nottingham, they're too heavy and have to travel at reduced speeds.

I do wonder if splitting Liverpool to Norwich is a way of making sure the 185s stay here rather than going to IE...
 

A0wen

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Not sure. I suspect personally we’ll see:
2tph St Pan - Leicester - stations to Sheffield
2tph St Pan - Luton Airport - Kettering - Market H - Leicester - stations to Nottingham
2tph St Pan - Luton - Bedford - Wellingborough - Kettering - Corby.

So not a massive ‘enhancement’.

I think you're nearly right - I'm not sure the Nottingham's will continue to stop at Luton Airport Parkway though - I reckon they'll run non-stop from Kettering.

And I'd bet on the Corby's stopping at both Luton and Luton Airport Parkway.
 

59CosG95

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The argument whether Corby etc should have formal inter city spec services or simply accommodate some emu workings extended from Bedford goes back decades, i heard it around 1985 when electrification was first mooted
King's Cross - King's Lynn used to be under IC prior to electrification, after which it went to NSE.
I suspect the change will be similar - loco-hauled/DMUs for longer-distance to EMUs instead.
 

ainsworth74

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The rumours suggest 185 going to RoI

It is more than a rumour! Iarnród Éireann have openly admitted that they're looking for some diesel stock to use in the early 2020s for a number of years to make up a shortfall in capacity due to issues with some previously purchased stock being unuseable and it taking time for additional capacity to be brought into service. 185s were one of the classes specifically offered by ROSCOs to IE.

However, one can't help but suspect that if the ROSCO responsible for the 185s is made an offer that will see them kept in use for a number of years on Liverpool - Nottingham and that considering re-gauging won't be required that the ROSCO will bite off the hand of the DfT. I think that we can be reasonably secure in the fact that the 185s are staying in GB for the long haul.
 

4-SUB 4732

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It is more than a rumour! Iarnród Éireann have openly admitted that they're looking for some diesel stock to use in the early 2020s for a number of years to make up a shortfall in capacity due to issues with some previously purchased stock being unuseable and it taking time for additional capacity to be brought into service. 185s were one of the classes specifically offered by ROSCOs to IE.

However, one can't help but suspect that if the ROSCO responsible for the 185s is made an offer that will see them kept in use for a number of years on Liverpool - Nottingham and that considering re-gauging won't be required that the ROSCO will bite off the hand of the DfT. I think that we can be reasonably secure in the fact that the 185s are staying in GB for the long haul.

Plus they’re far too good to lose.

We could always give them some pacers, some 156s or some other tat.
 

ainsworth74

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Are the weekend Scarborough runs no more?

Unclear I'd say but York is still explicitly included so whilst there's no mention of Scarborough I suspect that's simply down to it being such a tiny part of the EMR franchise its just not been mentioned rather than some more nefarious.

The thing I find bizarre is that the ad-hoc Leeds services are still included in the franchise. Considering that they only exist due to the HSTs going to and from Neville Hill and, in my experience, are usually dead between Leeds and Sheffield I'd have thought that the opportunity to kill them off once the HSTs are gone would have been taken!
 

Scottychoo

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Why is everyone getting so excited by Abellio winning East Mids? They have delivered none of their franchise commitments in the guise of Greater Anglia and look at the mess ScotRail are in?
Give it a few months and people will be praying for the return of Stagecoach just like they were at SWR
 

quantinghome

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It would admittedly have been much nicer for the TOC to operate the service to Sheffield in my mind; but then again if there is a Liverpool to Nottingham and the connections are half-decent it wouldn’t be too problematic to change each way. As has been said, cross-Nottingham traffic is minimal.

I would imagine Peterborough - Sheffield would have the most significant cross-Nottingham flow. But even on this journey it's faster changing at Doncaster than the current direct service.
 

cactustwirly

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Unclear I'd say but York is still explicitly included so whilst there's no mention of Scarborough I suspect that's simply down to it being such a tiny part of the EMR franchise its just not been mentioned rather than some more nefarious.

The thing I find bizarre is that the ad-hoc Leeds services are still included in the franchise. Considering that they only exist due to the HSTs going to and from Neville Hill and, in my experience, are usually dead between Leeds and Sheffield I'd have thought that the opportunity to kill them off once the HSTs are gone would have been taken!

Where are the new Bi-modes being maintained though?
I suspect they'll split the maintenance between NL and DY, as I don't think DY has the space for all of the intercity stock
 

Bletchleyite

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Not sure. I suspect personally we’ll see:
2tph St Pan - Leicester - stations to Sheffield
2tph St Pan - Luton Airport - Kettering - Market H - Leicester - stations to Nottingham
2tph St Pan - Luton - Bedford - Wellingborough - Kettering - Corby.

So not a massive ‘enhancement’.

And a right nuisance for people travelling north from Bedford and other Thameslink stations. That really needs sorting out, either by stopping everything at Kettering or everything at Bedford.
 

Masboroughlad

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What are catering services like on Abellio long distance, inter-city services? Not much mentioned on EMR release.
 

DanTrain

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And a right nuisance for people travelling north from Bedford and other Thameslink stations. That really needs sorting out, either by stopping everything at Kettering or everything at Bedford.
Part of the problem is the insistance on the Sheffield slow going fast to Leicester. At the moment the slow and the fast take almost the same time due to the fast having been slowed down so much. If the fast could be sped up and the slow slowed down slightly with a Kettering stop I doubt many would complain.
 

Megafuss

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Unclear I'd say but York is still explicitly included so whilst there's no mention of Scarborough I suspect that's simply down to it being such a tiny part of the EMR franchise its just not been mentioned rather than some more nefarious.

The thing I find bizarre is that the ad-hoc Leeds services are still included in the franchise. Considering that they only exist due to the HSTs going to and from Neville Hill and, in my experience, are usually dead between Leeds and Sheffield I'd have thought that the opportunity to kill them off once the HSTs are gone would have been taken!

The morning services actually serve an important purpose as they account for three of the first four trains from Leeds to Nottingham (based on the new May timetable). It's the evening ones which are not at a great time for the part of the route between Sheffield and Leeds

Going forward, I wonder if the evening ones to Leeds will leave London at a different time as they won't need to be HSTs.
 

YorkshireBear

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Unclear I'd say but York is still explicitly included so whilst there's no mention of Scarborough I suspect that's simply down to it being such a tiny part of the EMR franchise its just not been mentioned rather than some more nefarious.

The thing I find bizarre is that the ad-hoc Leeds services are still included in the franchise. Considering that they only exist due to the HSTs going to and from Neville Hill and, in my experience, are usually dead between Leeds and Sheffield I'd have thought that the opportunity to kill them off once the HSTs are gone would have been taken!


NOOOOOO

The sheffield Leeds services are perfect after an evening drinking around Kelham Island, quiet HST fast to Leeds. I'd rather they stayed just for my personal benefit!!!
 

ainsworth74

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Where are the new Bi-modes being maintained though?
I suspect they'll split the maintenance between NL and DY, as I don't think DY has the space for all of the intercity stock

Depends on what they order! If it's products of Hitachi then quite possibly they'll end up making use of Doncaster. Bombardier products may well being maintained at Crofton near Wakefield. Alternatively it's also quite common to throw up a new depot entierly for a decent sized new fleet and this is going to be quite a large one so I wouldn't rule out a new depot either. Neville Hill is bursting at the seams as well so getting rid of some rolling stock from there would certainly be useful to free up space for Northern.

However you're right it certainly can't be ruled out that Neville Hill will still have a role to play but I certainly wouldn't put money on it.

Don't EMT have buffet counters too?

Yes the 222s and HSTs both have buffets (and full kitchens) but I believe that often it's just the trolley parked in the buffet.

The morning services actually serve an important purpose as they account for three of the first four trains from Leeds to Nottingham (based on the new May timetable). It's the evening ones which are not at a great time for the part of the route between Sheffield and Leeds

Perhaps I'm looking in the wrong place but RTT suggests that only the first train of the day (0633) is EM from Leeds to Nottingham after that it's all Northern? I'm still not convinced that one train early in the morning is enough to keep EMR dealing with the logistical issues of starting services back at Leeds...
 

theshillito

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According to the dft site "Crewe-Derby services will operate with increased capacity compared to today". Is that line capacity? Seating capacity? It doesn't seem clear.
 

Bletchleyite

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Yes the 222s and HSTs both have buffets (and full kitchens) but I believe that often it's just the trolley parked in the buffet.

It is, and it looks incredibly rubbish. It's not an area designed to look good and accommodate the trolley (like say the mini-bistro that the 319/2s used to have when they did Brighton Express work), it's a member of staff crammed in the corner with the trolley where it doesn't quite fit surrounded by display cabinets and equipment with nothing in them. It's the kind of sight you would expect to see in somewhere like Albania, where they use second hand kit that doesn't quite suit them, not one of the British InterCity mainlines.
 

4-SUB 4732

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And a right nuisance for people travelling north from Bedford and other Thameslink stations. That really needs sorting out, either by stopping everything at Kettering or everything at Bedford.

Agreed. Bedford will soon be a huge nucleus of interchange and journey opportunities and one must assume it will need to be re-modelled. Maybe if they can be bothered to have a dedicated two platforms for 'Intercity' we will finally have a sensible situation involving more Bedford calls.
 

Bletchleyite

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Agreed. Bedford will soon be a huge nucleus of interchange and journey opportunities and one must assume it will need to be re-modelled. Maybe if they can be bothered to have a dedicated two platforms for 'Intercity' we will finally have a sensible situation involving more Bedford calls.

Yes, it definitely needs fast-line platforms. And a general upgrade - it looks basically exactly the same as it did when NSE last did it up years ago.
 

4-SUB 4732

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According to the dft site "Crewe-Derby services will operate with increased capacity compared to today". Is that line capacity? Seating capacity? It doesn't seem clear.

Seating capacity. They are getting rid of 153s so that means the only available cascaded / refurbished stock is more than 1 coach.
 
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