East Midlands Parkway - Pointless?

[Pumbaa]

IIRC the business case for East Midlands Parkway did not require or include the impact of an airport link. It was basically located specifically to attract people heading towards London who did not want to drive into other possible stations in town centres. Any other use is incidental...

Quite.

For what it's worth, the station is still well behind on original trajectory of growth, but the usage is picking up.

 

[tbtc]

This illustrates a problem with a fragmented railway, where the infrastructure is built separate to the operation of trains.

At the moment, the EMT franchise is running a lot of five/seven coach 222s from the East Midlands to London (plus a lower number of HSTs). At the risk of sounding patronising, a five/seven coach 222 clearly doesn't have as many seats as a five/coach 125/225, so there's not a lot of spare seats for EMT to try to fill with "Parkway" passengers.

In a few years time, the MML will hopefully have electric stock comparable in length to 225s/390s on the parallel EMCL/WCML, which means that the successor TOC will have an incentive to stop more services at East Midlands Parkway (both for people heading to London and for people using it as a Park And Ride for Nottingham/Derby/ Leicester)...

...but at the moment there's not a lot of spare seats on the MML, so little incentive for EMT to stop more trains at East Midlands Parkway/ little chance for them to sell more advance tickets to tempt car drivers from the Motorway.

In a few years time, we could be looking at longer trains providing a "turn up and go" frequency from EMP to Nottingham/ Loughborough/ Leicester/ London (with more cheap tickets for longer distance trains).

 

[thenorthern]

Are there passenger services to the two Sinfins? Do they even exist? I thought they now formed part of Rolls-Royce's terminal for fuel?

They closed in 1998 although the last train ran in 1993.

 

[fgwrich]

most of the poorly used stations mentioned have been in decline for years, whereas East Midlands parkway, Stratford International & Ashford International are relatively newly built

That hardly surprises me somewhat, the last time I used Stratford unInternational even in the peak hour it wasn't that busy - probably about 20/25 passengers in the half hour wait I had for my train that evening. What it is handy for if anyone is interested though is that the western entrance to the station opens out right next to Tap East - which I can recommend! But that's about it.

 

[backontrack]

It is a bit random, as are Stratford and Teeside Airport (or whatever it's called this week).

Stratford had its purpose, to serve the Olympics, but nowadays goes around unused. A junction at Stratford Domestic would be better, and the DLR could take people up to the venue. On the other hand, the DLR would be too congested for this. I guess they had the right idea.

Of course, with Teeside Airport, I'd just be echoing others.

What about Altnabreac?

 

[asylumxl]

Stratford had its purpose, to serve the Olympics, but nowadays goes around unused.

But this is the issue. Even during the Olympics it didn't receive as many passengers as you'd really expect. While it is all well and good plonking a station near the stadium, if the line it is situated on does not serve areas where there is a demand no amount of speed or convenience will help matters.

 

[edwin_m]

At the moment, the EMT franchise is running a lot of five/seven coach 222s from the East Midlands to London (plus a lower number of HSTs). At the risk of sounding patronising, a five/seven coach 222 clearly doesn't have as many seats as a five/coach 125/225, so there's not a lot of spare seats for EMT to try to fill with "Parkway" passengers.

The Meridians are on the Sheffield services plus the Corby and the slow Nottingham, where there acceleration is of most use but as you say the seating is a bit limited. The HSTs work the fast Nottingham (plus some peak extras) and I think it is no coincidence that this is the faster of the two London trains that stops at the Parkway.

 

[LTJ87]

I don't know about EMT but Midland Mainline were very keen on East Midlands Parkway.

I remember first being about it in the late 1990s. As I'm sure many know the development of the station was held up because of dispute with the neighbouring power station over liabilities if there was an incident at the power station.

 

[nottinghamcity]

EMP has just over half the usage of nearby Beeston, which is a little embarrassing I suspect, but there is one metric where it would win hands down: revenue per passenger. EMT really place it as a peak hour long distance station, and backfill with cheap off peak fares. I suspect the average ticket from there is in the £70ish each way. Beeston by contrast takes a lot of £2.40 day returns.

 

[route:oxford]

Regarding its existence I'm fairly ambivalent to be honest but I'd be curious to know what objective criteria people use to determine whether something is a white elephant or not.

"White elephant" is a term used by activists to get media attention and raise fear and anxiety amongst the ill-educated.

Looking around Oxfordshire I've found that, in general, use of the term "White Elephant" by "Activists" during the planning process almost always assures success.

 

[Clip]

Stratford is slowly building up though and much easier for me when I go odown to Kent to see friends and seems to be busy in the evening peak. I reckon with the housing now being released it will see more traffic as your only an hour or so from the coast.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Funny to see mention in this thread of the Download festival but not Donington Park as a racing venue. It is one of the most attended circuits in the UK and hosts several major events, including World Superbikes and British Touring Cars where the crowds are in the tens of thousands.

Like every other motor racing circuit in the UK though, it lacks a proper railway connection - if it was possible to provide a shuttle bus from EMT through to the circuit it would alleviate a lot of pressure on the roads and parking. At Silverstone during the F1 weekend, off-road buses are used from Towcester Aerodrome to the circuit to avoid the heavy road traffic. I wonder if there is a similar route that could be used, at least from the M1 into the circuit.

 

[button_boxer]

<pedant>What's Emerson Park got to do with this thread?</pedant>

I've only used EMD once as an origin/destination, on a weekend when engineering work meant I couldn't get to London early enough from Derby but could from EMD - it was unsurprisingly pretty well used on that occasion. I've changed trains there on many occasions (again on weekends, travelling Beeston to Derby at times when it was quicker to change at EMD than to wait for the next direct service) and in those cases it was much quieter, and I've never seen more than a few people getting on or off there when I've stopped on the way to/from London.

 

[CockneySparrow]

Stratford is slowly building up though and much easier for me when I go odown to Kent to see friends and seems to be busy in the evening peak. I reckon with the housing now being released it will see more traffic as your only an hour or so from the coast.

Also on match days when West Ham move into the stadium, bear in mind there isn't alot go on there at the moment but when the hammers move in there is supposed to be more atheletics, concerts and possibly 20/20 cricket

Whether any of that materialises we will have to wait

 

[bunnahabhain]

EMD was designed as an interchange station as well, an ex-senior manager of MML who was one of the people behind the "Darkway" said it was the intention of Midland Mainline to stop ALL trains there. Remember when originally planned that would have been four MML and one Central service each way per hour.

 

[nottinghamcity]

In some ways the failure of this station, and poor take-up of parkway stations generally is a warning from history: the eastern extension of HS2 neatly sidesteps the communities of the east Midlands with its parkway location at Toton.

 

[aylesbury2]

I think Aylesbury Vale Parkway has to be one of the most pointless stations built - it cost over £10 million, is a whopping 4 minutes away from the town centre station and is surrounded by unoccupied new houses. I'm sorry, but who would want to live on the Berryfields development? It's on a floodplain with noisy overhead electric power lines running right across it, on a busy A road, next to the railway line (plus binliners running to Calvert 3 times a day), as well as being right next to the Rabans Lane tip and sewage plant. Lovely. Aylesbury never gets busy - there are way too many new empty car parks so the council are discounting them now at peak times - what's the point in having park and ride facilities for a small town which is absolutely terrible for shopping.

Last year, only 81000 people used it, compared to over 1 million users at Aylesbury.

Pointless.

 

[alwaystouchout]

Surely the only problem is that it was touted as a rail link for the airport - despite being located a fair distance away. I wouldn't call a station with almost 300,000 entries/exits a year 'pointless.' I guess its handy for local services/commuters going into Derby, Nottingham and Leicester, I'm not sure it justifies HST stops.

 

[route:oxford]

I think Aylesbury Vale Parkway has to be one of the most pointless stations built - it cost over £10 million, is a whopping 4 minutes away from the town centre station and is surrounded by unoccupied new houses. I'm sorry, but who would want to live on the Berryfields development? It's on a floodplain with noisy overhead electric power lines running right across it, on a busy A road, next to the railway line (plus binliners running to Calvert 3 times a day), as well as being right next to the Rabans Lane tip and sewage plant. Lovely. Aylesbury never gets busy - there are way too many new empty car parks so the council are discounting them now at peak times - what's the point in having park and ride facilities for a small town which is absolutely terrible for shopping.

Last year, only 81000 people used it, compared to over 1 million users at Aylesbury.

Pointless.

Aylesbury is such a cursed place.

First of all Equitable Life self-destructs, then HBOS follows suit.

The town centre is dire and 280 bus takes around 2 hours to get to the centre of Oxford.

I do hope that the fairly cheap housing and the future opportunity to travel by Rail to MK and Oxford (change at Winslow or Princes Risborough) will help bring prosperity back to the town.

A dual carriageway linking Dicot & Milton Keynes via Aylesbury would help too.

 

[sidmouth]

Well, to be fair, I can't remember the last time I heard about a project coming in under budget ! Odd name for it IMO though.

'Optimum bias' so called because it was realised the cost estimators always tended to be 'optimistic' - best example was the Jubilee line extension (£3.5 billion actual against £2.1 billion estimate), and is now added to all cost estimates to ensure a transport scheme still offers value for money even if those estimates were to be exceeded. Back to the Jubilee line: would it have been extended if the decision makers were to have known the budgeted scheme costs were to rise by two thirds?

 

[aylesbury2]

Aylesbury is such a cursed place.

First of all Equitable Life self-destructs, then HBOS follows suit.

The town centre is dire and 280 bus takes around 2 hours to get to the centre of Oxford.

I do hope that the fairly cheap housing and the future opportunity to travel by Rail to MK and Oxford (change at Winslow or Princes Risborough) will help bring prosperity back to the town.

A dual carriageway linking Dicot & Milton Keynes via Aylesbury would help too.

All very valid points - couldn't agree more. I think it's possible to get a train to Oxford via Princes Risborough, then up to Banbury and then catch the CrossCountry Newcastle/Birmingham to Reading service which takes just under 2 hours in total, probably comparable to the 280 but it's obviously much more logical to drive to Thornhill and take the 400 which is less than an hour in my experience. Although there is the chance of missing the CrossCountry service due to a Chiltern delay etc. which would be a disaster as they are pretty infrequent, but there is a FGW service also but there may be issues with ticketing - probably not worth the hassle and I have never done it as a single ticket is £20+ due to multiple connections and operators - just doesn't make sense unless you are desperate to travel on a Voyager/Super Voyager for 20 minutes or so instead of a bus.

 

[nottinghamcity]

Surely the only problem is that it was touted as a rail link for the airport - despite being located a fair distance away. I wouldn't call a station with almost 300,000 entries/exits a year 'pointless.' I guess its handy for local services/commuters going into Derby, Nottingham and Leicester, I'm not sure it justifies HST stops.

The only problem is that it isn't being used in that way, its a pain to get to by road, and I'm not sure the dialling will help - the motorway junction is the problem. I'm not aware that it was ever really touted as an airport railhead since it so clearly wouldn't work. It was always car - London concept. The last ditch tendered bus service was largely ignored for a number of reasons, but the fact it was half hourly but didn't tie in the rail timetable making one per hour redundant, was relatively expensive compared to the various skylink services, and EMT announced Derby, Nottingham, Long Eaton and Loughborough but never EMD as the connection points from the respective directions!

 

[ashworth]

I live a few miles north of Nottingham with easy access to the M1 and so therefore East Midlands Parkway should be very useful to me. However, I've only ever used it on occasional Red Dot days and when there have been cheap offers from there for a day return to London. I wouldn't use it at other times because after paying for the fuel to drive there and the parking charges it is cheaper to use the tram into Nottingham and catch the train from there. This is especially the case when fares to London are just about the same from Nottingham as from EMP.

However, this is not the case when travelling to lots of other popular destination. Most of my rail travel is for leisure days out and mostly on Saturdays. I've listed some fares for such journeys travelling there and back on the same day using the cheapest pay on the day fares. Some of the fares from EMP are extortionate in comparison to the fares from Nottingham often because Day Returns are not available from EMP.

Fares from East Midlands Parkway given with Nottingham fares in brackets:

Sheffield £19.80 (£13.20)
Leeds £40.50 (£23.20)
Manchester £40.20 (£22.30)
Chester £37.10 (£20.50)
York £48.50 (£43.70)
Birmingham £19.60 (£17.50)

Why is Birmingham more from EMP when it is closer in distance and Chester is unbelievable again for a slightly shorter journey.
Manchester and Leeds are both nearly double the Nottingham fare.

When the new Nottingham Tram extension opens to Clifton and Chilwell later this year will East Midlands Parkway lose even more customers to Nottingham? When the A453 duel carriageway is opened EMP will be so easy to get to from Clifton but if people begin realise the fare differences they will soon be getting the tram into Nottingham instead!

I also don't think the car parking charges help. People are not going to pay such high prices to park, even with the reduced Park and ride Tickets, to travel local journeys into Nottingham, Derby or Leicester. There's a huge car park which is rarely much more than a quarter full. Why not just charge a nominal fee of £1 or even try making it free.

 

[swt_passenger]

Surely the only problem is that it was touted as a rail link for the airport

The planning documents never 'touted it' as an airport station.

 

[nottinghamcity]

I think that is spot on. The parking cost coupled with no public road transport kills commuter use. I suspect Birmingham fares are due totwo operators. I commonly travel from the airport campus to the west Midlands and EMD has never crossed my mind - skylink Derby then a crosscountry day return is reasonably priced and quite quick.

 

[Mugby]

And apart from everything that's been said, it really is one of those stations you don't want to be at. The surroundings are truly miserable!

 

[yorksrob]

And apart from everything that's been said, it really is one of those stations you don't want to be at. The surroundings are truly miserable!

I do quite like the cooling towers though.

 

[aylesbury2]

I do quite like the cooling towers though.

Mmm, lovely, and the gorgeous M1 too - beautiful scenery galore!

 

[yorksrob]

Mmm, lovely, and the gorgeous M1 too - beautiful scenery galore!

Some of the over bridges on the M1 have quite an attractive retro, festival of Britain quality to them

 

[OxtedL]

<pedant>What's Emerson Park got to do with this thread?</pedant>

There was categorically no ambiguity as to whether people were referring to East Midlands Parkway or to Emerson Park. Your pedantry is thus extremely unnecessary and counter-productive.