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Yes, but as they mentioned above the power cars were wanted elsewhere. The LNER ones had just come off-lease and EMR were able to lease them long-term due to there not being a pressing need for them with other companies. Moreover, full sets of MK3s did transfer over to DATS, LSL and 125 Group...
That's not correct. In fact it is not even close to correct. The power cars may have been wanted elsewhere, but that was about Porterbrook re-homing them after their use had finished. If Porterbrook could still lease them to EMR now, the other organisations would have to wait for them.
DATS don't have a full HST set, LSL don't have a full ex-Midland HST set (only 5 vehicles), 125 Group have 8 vehicles. But that was all after the decision had been made to end the use of the blue sets. Many of the 125 Group vehicles were donated by Porterbrook - if there was still a lease opportunity for them, they wouldn't have donated them yet!
The point being made is that there were other reasons besides PRM compliance as to why the ex-EMT sets were sent off lease. There are also various articles online supporting the environment and energy efficiency as one of the reasons why the LNER power cars were used as opposed to the EMT ones. And yes I’m aware of this, there are still a few spare at Neville Hill to deliver this.
Again no. The sole reason for the switch out was PRM compliance. There are technical reasons why the East Coast power cars had to accompany the trailers, primarily the East Coast sets having non-standard jumper cables and non-standard crew comms systems. With the Angel sets the leasing company would have likely pushed to have its power cars on lease with the sets - but the technical differences made it necessary anyway.
It was nothing to do with energy use and green credentials - I don't care what was written elsewhere: that was just a PR story that isn't really grounded in the facts. There is a perception that "MTU is best" with HST engines, whereas in reality the VP185 is at least equal and actually superior in some regards: VP185 goes longer between overhauls, uses less oil and fuel consumption is equivalent to the MTU 4000.
And if you really want the greenest HST power car, it's 43076: the VP185 with electronic fuel injection fitted as a demonstrator 2 years ago.
I've read away.... Thank you for a great laugh - though it is anything but an authoritative source.
As one example: "The VP185s were created to be a more efficient version of Paxman’s Valenta engine". The VP185 is not a version of the Valenta: it was a completely new engine design, starting from a blank sheet of paper.
That's not correct. In fact it is not even close to correct. The power cars may have been wanted elsewhere, but that was about Porterbrook re-homing them after their use had finished. If Porterbrook could still lease them to EMR now, the other organisations would have to wait for them.
DATS don't have a full HST set, LSL don't have a full ex-Midland HST set (only 5 vehicles), 125 Group have 8 vehicles. But that was all after the decision had been made to end the use of the blue sets. Many of the 125 Group vehicles were donated by Porterbrook - if there was still a lease opportunity for them, they wouldn't have donated them yet!
Again no. The sole reason for the switch out was PRM compliance. There are technical reasons why the East Coast power cars had to accompany the trailers, primarily the East Coast sets having non-standard jumper cables and non-standard crew comms systems. With the Angel sets the leasing company would have likely pushed to have its power cars on lease with the sets - but the technical differences made it necessary anyway.
It was nothing to do with energy use and green credentials - I don't care what was written elsewhere: that was just a PR story that isn't really grounded in the facts. There is a perception that "MTU is best" with HST engines, whereas in reality the VP185 is at least equal and actually superior in some regards: VP185 goes longer between overhauls, uses less oil and fuel consumption is equivalent to the MTU 4000.
And if you really want the greenest HST power car, it's 43076: the VP185 with electronic fuel injection fitted as a demonstrator 2 years ago.
I've read away.... Thank you for a great laugh - though it is anything but an authoritative source.
As one example: "The VP185s were created to be a more efficient version of Paxman’s Valenta engine". The VP185 is not a version of the Valenta: it was a completely new engine design, starting from a blank sheet of paper.
That's not correct. In fact it is not even close to correct. The power cars may have been wanted elsewhere, but that was about Porterbrook re-homing them after their use had finished. If Porterbrook could still lease them to EMR now, the other organisations would have to wait for them.
DATS don't have a full HST set, LSL don't have a full ex-Midland HST set (only 5 vehicles), 125 Group have 8 vehicles. But that was all after the decision had been made to end the use of the blue sets. Many of the 125 Group vehicles were donated by Porterbrook - if there was still a lease opportunity for them, they wouldn't have donated them yet!
Again no. The sole reason for the switch out was PRM compliance. There are technical reasons why the East Coast power cars had to accompany the trailers, primarily the East Coast sets having non-standard jumper cables and non-standard crew comms systems. With the Angel sets the leasing company would have likely pushed to have its power cars on lease with the sets - but the technical differences made it necessary anyway.
It was nothing to do with energy use and green credentials - I don't care what was written elsewhere: that was just a PR story that isn't really grounded in the facts. There is a perception that "MTU is best" with HST engines, whereas in reality the VP185 is at least equal and actually superior in some regards: VP185 goes longer between overhauls, uses less oil and fuel consumption is equivalent to the MTU 4000.
And if you really want the greenest HST power car, it's 43076: the VP185 with electronic fuel injection fitted as a demonstrator 2 years ago.
I've read away.... Thank you for a great laugh - though it is anything but an authoritative source.
As one example: "The VP185s were created to be a more efficient version of Paxman’s Valenta engine". The VP185 is not a version of the Valenta: it was a completely new engine design, starting from a blank sheet of paper.
If Porterbrook could still be leasing it's vehicles to EMR, they would. It's the DfT's instance that the EMR must take the slightly more compliant Ex EC Sets from Angel, despite the easily achievable mods to the Porterbrook sets, that's resulted in the release of the ex MML sets. Of course the DfT didn't take into account how shabbily maintained the ex EC stuff was (Hitachi) and it'll have cost whoever the cash to bring them back up to scratch.
I'm not sure how true that bit is (or at least, the implications) - whilst the ex EC stuff was definitely not in a good way prior to starting on the MML, I was under the impression that this was more to do with an expectation that they'd been going one-way to Newport in 2020 rather than Neville Hill, and were being maintained in line with that expectation so when the DfT announced their grand plan a month or so prior to the move it was too late to undo the state they'd gotten into. I don't think it's fair to say that Hitachi were maintaining the sets to a lower level purely because of whose name was above the depot (especially as most staff would have been the same, surely?)
I'm not sure how true that bit is (or at least, the implications) - whilst the ex EC stuff was definitely not in a good way prior to starting on the MML, I was under the impression that this was more to do with an expectation that they'd been going one-way to Newport in 2020 rather than Neville Hill, and were being maintained in line with that expectation so when the DfT announced their grand plan a month or so prior to the move it was too late to undo the state they'd gotten into. I don't think it's fair to say that Hitachi were maintaining the sets to a lower level purely because of whose name was above the depot (especially as most staff would have been the same, surely?)
I believe that staff numbers had reduced a little at Craigentinny, with ScotRail needing qualified HST Engineers over in Haymarket. But there was a considerable drop in maintenance standards of both the 125 and 225 fleet's when Hitachi took over their maintenance from LNER, as Hitachi took control of the LNER depots. Both fleets IIRC suffered drops in the reliability tables after this, as Hitachi of course wanted the focus to be on their new fleets. As you say though, they were probably maintained to a point where their next expected trip would have been to Booths / Newport et all, rather than having the late saviour of EMR taking them on / foisted upon them.
A few shots of 503 in service - still the same internally as with the other 170s, but unlike the other /5s it doesn’t have the EMR logo on the cab fronts.
A few shots of 503 in service - still the same internally as with the other 170s, but unlike the other /5s it doesn’t have the EMR logo on the cab fronts.
I have no idea. Trying to find out but I think it is just a guessing game at the moment - assume it will depend on how many WMR need to maintain their TT
I have no idea. Trying to find out but I think it is just a guessing game at the moment - assume it will depend on how many WMR need to maintain their TT
I have no idea. Trying to find out but I think it is just a guessing game at the moment - assume it will depend on how many WMR need to maintain their TT
It will also depend if the rumors are true about them borrowing the Chiltern 172s as a stop-gap, although based on what happened with 503 I think it’s reasonable to assume it will continue working out of Tyseley in the short-term.
Logic would dictate that they make sure they have at least 7 repainted into EMR colours and then worry about painting more that will be sent back to WMR afterwards
Logic would dictate that they make sure they have at least 7 repainted into EMR colours and then worry about painting more that will be sent back to WMR afterwards
Judging by the numbers of people out to see this HST set today - and traveling on it - as I was - the cost of the repaint will have been more than made up for by the extra fares obtained - my cash included!
Judging by the numbers of people out to see this HST set today - and traveling on it - as I was - the cost of the repaint will have been more than made up for by the extra fares obtained - my cash included!
Judging by the numbers of people out to see this HST set today - and traveling on it - as I was - the cost of the repaint will have been more than made up for by the extra fares obtained - my cash included!
MK3 Coach sets:
'red' sets (Ex LNER). All 6 coaches.
NL56
NL57
NL58
Class 153:
153308 - EMT regional blue with EMR Regional logo
153319 - EMT regional blue with EMR Regional logo
153355 - EMT regional blue with EMR Regional logo
153357 - EMT regional blue with EMR Regional logo
153379 - EMT regional blue with EMR Regional logo
153384 - EMT regional blue with EMR Regional logo
Class 156:
156401 - EMT regional blue with EMR Regional logo
156403 - EMT regional blue with EMR Regional logo
156404 - EMT regional blue with EMR Regional logo 156405 - EMR outgoing livery
156406 - EMR outgoing livery
156408 - EMT regional blue with EMR Regional logo
156410 - EMT regional blue with EMR Regional logo
156411 - EMT regional blue with EMR Regional logo
156413 - EMT regional blue (no red/orange EMT cab ends) with EMR Regional logo
156414 - EMT regional blue (no red/orange EMT cab ends) no branding
156415 - EMT regional blue with EMR Regional logo
156470 - EMT regional blue with EMR Regional logo
156473 - EMT regional blue with EMR Regional logo
156497 - EMT regional blue with EMR Regional logo
156498 - EMT regional blue with EMR Regional logo 156902 - EMR outgoing livery (ex 156402)
156907 - EMR outgoing livery (ex 156407)
156909 - EMR outgoing livery (ex 156409)
156912 - EMR outgoing livery (ex 156412)
156916 - EMR outgoing livery (ex 156416)
156917 - EMR outgoing livery (ex 156417)
156918 - EMR outgoing livery (ex 156418)
156919 - EMR outgoing livery (ex 156419)
156922 - EMR outgoing livery (ex 156422)
Class 158:
158770 - EMT intercity white with EMR Regional logo 158773 - EMR outgoing livery
158774 - EMR outgoing livery
158777 - EMT intercity white with EMR Regional logo
158780 - EMT intercity white with EMR Regional logo
158783 - EMT intercity white with EMR Regional logo
158785 - EMT intercity white with EMR Regional logo
158788 - EMT intercity white with EMR Regional logo
158799 - EMT intercity white with EMR Regional logo
158806 - EMT intercity white with EMR Regional logo
158810 - EMT intercity white with EMR Regional logo
158812 - EMT intercity white with EMR Regional logo
158813 - EMT intercity white with EMR Regional logo
158846 - EMT intercity white with EMR Regional logo
158847 - EMT intercity white with EMR Regional logo - 'Lincoln Castle Explorer'
158852 - EMT intercity white with EMR Regional logo
158854 - EMT intercity white with EMR Regional logo - 'The Station Volunteer'
158856 - EMT intercity white with EMR Regional logo
158857 - EMT intercity white with EMR Regional logo
158858 - EMT intercity white with EMR Regional logo
158862 - EMT intercity white with EMR Regional logo
158863 - EMT intercity white with EMR Regional logo
158864 - EMT intercity white with EMR Regional logo
158865 - EMT intercity white with EMR Regional logo
158866 - EMT intercity white with EMR Regional logo
158889 - EMT intercity white with EMR Regional logo
Class 170: 170416 - Full EMR Regional
170417 - Full EMR Regional - 'the key worker'
170418 - Full EMR Regional
170419 - Full EMR Regional
170420 - Full EMR Regional
170503 - Full EMR Regional (returned to WMR until May)
170515 - Full EMR Regional 170530 - WMR outgoing livery - No branding (being used on training runs) 170531 - Full EMR Regional 170534 - WMR outgoing livery - Currently at Crewe for re-livery
Class 222:
222001 - EMT intercity white with EMR Intercity logo - 'The Entrepreneur Express' 222002 - EMR outgoing livery - 'The Cutlers' Company'
222003 - EMT intercity white with EMR Intercity logo - 'Tornado' 222004 - EMR outgoing livery - 'Children's Hospital Sheffield'
222005 - EMT intercity white with EMR Intercity logo 222006 - EMR outgoing livery - 'The Carbon Cutter'
222007 - EMT intercity white with EMR Intercity logo 222008 - EMR outgoing livery - 'Derby Etches Park'
222009 - EMR outgoing livery
222010 - EMR outgoing livery
222011 - EMR outgoing livery
222012 - EMR outgoing livery
222013 - EMR outgoing livery
222014 - EMR outgoing livery
222015 - EMT intercity white with EMR Intercity logo - '175 Years of Derby's Railways 1839-2014'
222016 - EMT intercity white with EMR Intercity logo
222017 - EMT intercity white with EMR Intercity logo 222018 - EMR outgoing livery
222019 - EMT intercity white with EMR Intercity logo
222020 - EMT intercity white with EMR Intercity logo
222021 - EMT intercity white with EMR Intercity logo 222022 - EMR outgoing livery - 'Invest in Nottingham'
222023 - EMT intercity white with EMR Intercity logo
222101 - EMR outgoing livery
222102 - EMT intercity white with EMR Intercity logo
222103 - EMT intercity white with EMR Intercity logo 222104 - Full EMR intercity
Class 360 (Some might be at Northampton):
360101 - Blue with White stripe
360102 - Blue with White stripe
360103 - Blue with White stripe
360104 - Blue with White stripe
360105 - Blue with White stripe
360106 - Blue with White stripe
360107 - Blue with White stripe
360108 - Blue with White stripe
360109 - Blue with White stripe
360110 - Blue with White stripe
360111 - Blue with White stripe
360112 - Blue with White stripe
360113 - Blue with White stripe
360114 - Blue with White stripe
360115 - Blue with White stripe
360116 - Blue with White stripe
360117 - Blue with White stripe
360118 - Blue with White stripe
360119 - Blue with White stripe
360120 - Blue with White stripe
360121 - Blue with White stripe
43300 is withdrawn and still at Neville Hill.
43045, 060 are at Derby RTC with Colas Rail on test trains.
43299 is being used on the NMT with Network Rail branding.
43050, 052, 054, 066, 076 are at Leicester (D.A.T.S).
43044, 048, 089 are now part of the 125group.
43046, 055, 058, 059, 083 are now with LSL
43043, 047, 049, 064, 073, 081, 082, 277, 290 are now at Burton West Yard.
43305, 306, 314, 316, 318, 319 are at Ely
43465, 468, 480, 484 are with Rail Adventure at Eastleigh
43296, 308, 423, 467 are with Rail Adventure at Willesden
43307, 317 are at Barrow Hill
Mk3's:
NL01, NL03 Scrapped/8 coaches to 125 group (3 from NL01, 5 from NL03)
NL04 Scrapped/1 coach sold to LSL
NL06, NL07, NL08, NL10, NL12, NL52, NL53, NL54, various spare 'red' vehicles from different sets have been scrapped.
NL11 Scrapped/3 coaches sold to LSL, 1 coach at Leicester for DATS
DY21, DY22, DY23, NL55 are at Ely
NL51 is stored at Barrow Hill
ex EMT spares: 3 scrapped, 1 sold to LSL
shared spare buffet 40751 (between VTEC/LNER and EMT/R) remains at Gascoigne Wood and believed to be sold on.
Class 153's
153302, 368, 374 are stored at Ely
153311, 376, 381. 383, 385 are stored at Burton West Yard
153310, 313, 318, 321, 326, 368, 372, 382 are now with TFW
Good for EMR but bad for WMR due to the yew damper fault with the 196s meaning nothing is able to replace them - won’t surprise me one bit if all future repaints end up working out of Tyseley until they start entering service.
certainly not cheap, but then neither is paint!
