East Midlands Railway short formed services

[LowLevel]

Talking of short formed EMR services, the Crewe route seems to have lost the luxury of 3 carriage 170s since the route extension and timetable changes. Now seems to be 2 carriage 158s or 156s again. Any reason for this?

They were used on the Crewe route because the traincrew who worked on that route mostly signed them. They've been moved elsewhere for now as traction knowledge is a bit more widespread. They will be back I'm sure.

 

[bunnahabhain]

At the moment the maximum number of 170s which can be produced for service is around 6 per day, any more and you run out of drivers who are passed out to drive them. The majority of the diagrams have headed over East because almost all Lincoln and Boston traincrew now sign them, with the majority of Nottingham spare link (and one of the main links) competent. To the best of my knowledge nobody at Norwich signs them, which presents issues on Nottingham to Leicester services, much as it always did when 153s used to turn up. Driver training should be restarting shortly so hopefully the problem will get better.

I don't believe there is much booked work for 170s around Derby at all except for the odd depot transfer which runs in service. Any that do appear are dropped in to replace a 15x.

 

[WesternLancer]

and from the BBC East Mids -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-57294652

"Rail passengers say they been travelling on "very full" trains with "no social distancing" over the weekend.
East Midlands Railway (EMR) users said passengers were standing in the aisles, with too few carriages available to accommodate them spread out.
Some regional services were also cancelled, causing others to be busier.
EMR apologised for "the discomfort and inconvenience that some of our customers have experienced"."

 

[PHILIPE]

and from the BBC East Mids -

East Midlands Railway passengers upset by lack of social distancing

East Midlands Railway users say passengers have been forced to stand in the aisles.

www.bbc.co.uk

"Rail passengers say they been travelling on "very full" trains with "no social distancing" over the weekend.
East Midlands Railway (EMR) users said passengers were standing in the aisles, with too few carriages available to accommodate them spread out.
Some regional services were also cancelled, causing others to be busier.
EMR apologised for "the discomfort and inconvenience that some of our customers have experienced"."

Yet in spite of this situation which has been with us in certain areas and on some train services for such a length of time now, I haven't heard or read of widespread spread of COVID from trains.

 

[yorksrob]

To be fair, it doesn't take Covid to make overcrowding on trains annoying.

 

[WesternLancer]

Yet in spite of this situation which has been with us in certain areas and on some train services for such a length of time now, I haven't heard or read of widespread spread of COVID from trains.

Indeed, tho few trains have been overcrowded since March 2020 have they (?) and before that covid wasn't that much of a 'thing' in the UK

 

[weastebusdepot]

At the other extreme 1L09 this morning, the 1001 Liverpool-Nottingham, is 6 carriages. An EMT livery 156, an EMT livery 158 and a Greater Anglia livery 156.

 

[yorksrob]

That's interesting. I thought they'd given up running six carriages between Liverpool and Manchester due to platform lengths !

 

[bunnahabhain]

At the other extreme 1L09 this morning, the 1001 Liverpool-Nottingham, is 6 carriages. An EMT livery 156, an EMT livery 158 and a Greater Anglia livery 156.

1L08 only operates between Nottingham and Norwich for the foreseeable due to driver shortages, so the unit from 1R50 sits at Lime Street for 90mins and then attaches to form 1L09 with the two units from 1R52.

 

[RJ]

Much of the problem is a shortage of drivers passed on 170s causing 15x to have to deputise on their diagrams which in turn causes 15x shortages. 170s also can't work in service in multi with 15x as the PA systems are mostly not compatible causing further restriction still. They have been trying to get 170s out where possible on to other diagrams but it involves checking out individual drivers and guards rostered on a given day for crew competency which can be challenging. Down to 5 working 153s, 2 of which are required for Barton on Humber, 156918 is in store at Barrow Hill (good riddance - it is not a good unit) and 156902 is at Wolverton for overhaul. A low speed derailment at Etches Park last week has taken 2 stabling roads out further squeezing capacity, they're awaiting parts with a lead time for repair. 158863 has been out of use since December when it derailed at Eastcroft, one vehicle of that is at Doncaster for repairs to significant damage.

It is the kind of thing that will be sorted over time but for now it is a problem.

If you remember Greater Anglia 18 months ago that was a fairly similar disaster. I personally have everything crossed that things will start coming together much sooner.

Sounds like a bit of a headache Can’t be nice having to work trains that are crowded, I hope the issues with the fleet are sorted soon!

 

[800001]

Lner having to call services additionally at Grantham, have ran an additional 1F19 and 1G19 Kings Cross to Grantham and Return, and ordered busses to Grantham to move emr customers between Peterborough and Grantham as EMR just keep telling them to get next EMR service

 

[Dr Hoo]

Lner having to call services additionally at Grantham, have ran an additional 1F19 and 1G19 Kings Cross to Grantham and Return, and ordered busses to Grantham to move emr customers between Peterborough and Grantham as EMR just keep telling them to get next EMR service

Presumably this is at least partly connected with today's closure of St Pancras as it is to do with EMR short forms? (I.e. passengers 'displaced' from the Midland Main Line.)

 

[Killingworth]

I was stood at Man Pic today and saw two EMR services pass eachother in quick succession, both 2 carriage 158's. The one towards Liverpool seemed to be particularly cosy !

I know that in the past EMR and EMT have chucked 156's and 153's on the back to deputise.

I wonder, have they handed back a few too many 15x's recently !

On the plus side, at least TPE have been putting 6 carriages on the Hope Valley recently. This seems to be the service to aim for now (as far as Manchester anyway).

Currently a lot of the Liverpool-Norwich trains appear to be 2 instead of 4 car. Since 153s have been withdrawn the situation has got worse,. Although they were good for capacity, they weren't for a comfortable journey and were getting quite shabby.

There's a certain irony in that EMR have been trying to add a refreshment trolley to parts of the Liverpool - Norwich route. That gives them an edge over TPE between Sheffield and Manchester, but only if it can get along the train, which it usually won't when it's an overloaded 2 car.

I'd agree, the 6 car 185s are the best option for that section at present, and then going east via Doncaster towards Cleethorpes.

 

[LowLevel]

Currently a lot of the Liverpool-Norwich trains appear to be 2 instead of 4 car. Since 153s have been withdrawn the situation has got worse,. Although they were good for capacity, they weren't for a comfortable journey and were getting quite shabby.

There's a certain irony in that EMR have been trying to add a refreshment trolley to parts of the Liverpool - Norwich route. That gives them an edge over TPE between Sheffield and Manchester, but only if it can get along the train, which it usually won't when it's an overloaded 2 car.

I'd agree, the 6 car 185s are the best option for that section at present, and then going east via Doncaster towards Cleethorpes.

No working 153s at all today which has lead to the Bartons being cancelled all day and several Skegness services being overformed with 2 158s instead which has had knock on effects with the Liverpool route. One of the 4 car 158 lash ups has just broken down at Boston which will knock another 300 seats out of the provision from Grantham. Also had at least one COVID app self isolation demand take a guard out at no notice with their diagram being cancelled as a result.

It's really hard work at the minute.

Sounds like a bit of a headache Can’t be nice having to work trains that are crowded, I hope the issues with the fleet are sorted soon!

It's miserable - not for lack of trying but everything just seems to be going wrong. Unfortunate because by normal standards passenger loadings have been excellent.

 

[raetiamann]

Short formed trains and cancellations seem to have got worse on EMR recently. Also looking at the PPM figures they're getting worse compared to other operators and past performance.

The service is going downhill but I cannot identify a particular reason, which is rather worrying as a regular passenger.

It seems to me the service has deteriorated badly since Abellio took over from Stagecoach, as has the quality.

 

[snookertam]

It seems to me the service has deteriorated badly since Abellio took over from Stagecoach, as has the quality.

I've heard that one before I'm sure.....

 

[Robertj21a]

It seems to me the service has deteriorated badly since Abellio took over from Stagecoach, as has the quality.

Not sure many others match up to Stagecoach quality overall.

 

[800001]

Presumably this is at least partly connected with today's closure of St Pancras as it is to do with EMR short forms? (I.e. passengers 'displaced' from the Midland Main Line.)

More to do with short forms and cancelling services left right and centre and there control not really being bothered, 50-100+ being left on platforms at Grantham, EMR say next service then they cancel.

 

[cactustwirly]

It seems to me the service has deteriorated badly since Abellio took over from Stagecoach, as has the quality.

Tbf Stagecoach didn't have to prematurely withdraw the 153s because of PRM compliance.

I wasn't too hot on Stagecoach, the fares could be quite expensive and the trains were tatty and dirty. The timetables were very infrequent and awkward.

At least they were on time though

 

[STINT47]

Based on recent performance I think EMR have successfully Abellioed the service.

 

[Ethan1852]

A lot of disrupted service again this evening. Although it seems to be because of train crew. It is a mystery why they don't couple units together to account for cancelled services.

 

[LowLevel]

A number of pre-cancellations for tomorrow have just gone in.

 

[Robertj21a]

A number of pre-cancellations for tomorrow have just gone in.

Presumably ongoing driver shortages?

 

[dk1]

Several cancellations it seems on the Liverpool-Norwich route this afternoon not helped by TCFs around Trowse Swingbridge. Platform staff tapped on my window at Ely & asked me to hang on for the Peterborough-Ipswich service arriving alongside my Stansted-Norwich as reports of many displaced passengers onboard. In the end approx 50-60 boarded after transferring via the subway & we left a mere 4 minutes down. Nice bit of cross industry cooperation

 

[LowLevel]

Presumably ongoing driver shortages?

Certainly drivers, possibly some guards too.

 

[RHolmes]

Ticket acceptance has been in place with TPE between Sheffield and Manchester again today mid morning to early afternoon and Habourgh and Cleethorpes

1L11 apparently had to leave passengers at Stockport station Sheffield bound due to overcrowding

 

[yorksrob]

Currently a lot of the Liverpool-Norwich trains appear to be 2 instead of 4 car. Since 153s have been withdrawn the situation has got worse,. Although they were good for capacity, they weren't for a comfortable journey and were getting quite shabby.

There's a certain irony in that EMR have been trying to add a refreshment trolley to parts of the Liverpool - Norwich route. That gives them an edge over TPE between Sheffield and Manchester, but only if it can get along the train, which it usually won't when it's an overloaded 2 car.

I'd agree, the 6 car 185s are the best option for that section at present, and then going east via Doncaster towards Cleethorpes.

I think that really both EMR need to bite the bullet and accept that they're going to need the 153's for a while yet as back up to the service. They can then do the minimal work to tidy them up and obtain the necessary derogations to allow them to work in multiple.

 

[MCR247]

No working 153s at all today which has lead to the Bartons being cancelled all day and several Skegness services being overformed with 2 158s instead which has had knock on effects with the Liverpool route. One of the 4 car 158 lash ups has just broken down at Boston which will knock another 300 seats out of the provision from Grantham. Also had at least one COVID app self isolation demand take a guard out at no notice with their diagram being cancelled as a result.

It's really hard work at the minute.



It's miserable - not for lack of trying but everything just seems to be going wrong. Unfortunate because by normal standards passenger loadings have been excellent.

it seems they managed to get 2 153s working attached to a 158 leaving Nottingham around 18.45 today

 

[gimmea50anyday]

The whole farce lies firmly at the feet of Grayling and the DfT. Cancelling MML electrification then imposing PRM restrictions on stock without having sufficient stock to cover the shortfall. Wether through delayed cascades or delayed ordering of new trains. This is a classic case of the result of civil servants running the railway and not railway experienced specialists. The simple solution would have been to have retained the HSTs until their replacement was ordered, constructed and in operational service. Instead non-prm compliant HSTs were replaced with not-so-non-prm compliant HSTs which actually didn't work and were in a poorer condition. Had the knitting been strung up as planned the 365s could at least have been deployed until the 810s arrived. Instead we are left with the mess of a motley mix of rolling stock that is short formed while other trains are sidelined because they haven't been able to train the staff, COVID has merely exasperated the situation, not caused it

 

[Domh245]

The whole farce lies firmly at the feet of Grayling and the DfT. Cancelling MML electrification then imposing PRM restrictions on stock without having sufficient stock to cover the shortfall. Wether through delayed cascades or delayed ordering of new trains. This is a classic case of the result of civil servants running the railway and not railway experienced specialists. The simple solution would have been to have retained the HSTs until their replacement was ordered, constructed and in operational service. Instead non-prm compliant HSTs were replaced with not-so-non-prm compliant HSTs which actually didn't work and were in a poorer condition. Had the knitting been strung up as planned the 365s could at least have been deployed until the 810s arrived. Instead we are left with the mess of a motley mix of rolling stock that is short formed while other trains are sidelined because they haven't been able to train the staff, COVID has merely exasperated the situation, not caused it

Don't get me wrong, I'm angry that the MML electrification was postponed then cancelled, and baffled by the PRM related madness that went on with the MML HSTs, but I really struggle to see how electrification would have been the solution here. Apart from the fact that the electrification almost certainly wouldn't be complete - so you'd only be able to run a full electric service to say, Leicester, replacing the HSTs and Meridians with 365s would be pathing (and more no doubt) non-starters. Presumably you'd have then cascaded 222s onto the regional services to provide them with PRM compliant stock - which would still require training for most staff! EMR intercity (& connect) has been fine, bar some teething troubles with the 360s and the 180s notoriously patchy reliability.

Apart from Covid, the "root cause" of EMR Regional's stock issues is the late introduction of the 196s at WMR, delaying the cascade of the 170s.