East Midlands Railway using two coach trains on Crewe to Derby line

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by thenorthern, 15 Jan 2020.

  1. thenorthern

    thenorthern Established Member

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    Over the past few weeks I have noticed East Midlands Railway has started using two coach trains on the Crewe to Derby Line rather than the old system which was to use 3 single class 153s throughout the day until the early evening when one of them would be replaced with a Class 158.

    Has there been an allocation change and will this be permanent?
     
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  3. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Unless there is a dispensation, Class 153s are not, because of PRM-TSI, allowed to work alone any more[1]. So this is indeed permanent.

    Long term it'll be 2-car Class 170s.

    [1] You could fit a PRM toilet and wheelchair spaces but then you'd lose half the seats. You could remove the toilet, but that would be, er, inconvenient.
     
  4. thenorthern

    thenorthern Established Member

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    There were rumors that Class 153s were going to be converted back to Class 155s a couple of years ago which would make sense with PRM-TSI rules.
     
  5. PHILIPE

    PHILIPE Veteran Member

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    Rumours scotched straight away. Too costly for one thing
     
  6. WillPS

    WillPS Established Member

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    No reason they couldn't be semi-permanently coupled with the cabs in disuse though, like all the non-150001/150002 3-car 150 formations there have been past and present.
     
  7. Bacon_BMW

    Bacon_BMW Member

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    I’d think the cost would be worth it for at least a few of them just for a little more freedom.
     
  8. Andy Pacer

    Andy Pacer Member

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    They do, in fact, have dispensation on the Crewe to Derby route, but they had also said that from the December timetable change there shouldn't be any scheduled 1 car trains in operation, so likely a bit of both.
     
  9. Qwerty133

    Qwerty133 Established Member

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    There is a dispensation in place for the Crewe route, and even if there wasn't there appears to be a 2x153 formation on a route without dispensation this afternoon.
     
  10. RealTrains07

    RealTrains07 On Moderation

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    I thought the rules were the 153s could continue to operate attached to a unit already PRM compliant but then again not enough 156s to go round unfortunately
     
  11. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Yes, that's right, they can be coupled to one or more PRM compliant units. Though as others have said it seems there is a dispensation here.
     
  12. Bacon_BMW

    Bacon_BMW Member

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    How about ECS moves? Can they be used as single cars or sets of just 153s if they are out of service? I would think that would make sense.
     
  13. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

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    Undortunately, the people who actually have to pay for it don't.

    Don't see why not...but wouldn't often be of any usefulness.
     
  14. Lincoln

    Lincoln Member

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    Peter Wilkinson, the chap who is best friends with many a train driver, has had his dispensation letters posted on the DfT website. For completeness they are also attached to this post.

    The only issue at hand is when they are run in passenger carrying service. They can be considered no different to a coal wagon when run as empty stock on their own, as nobody who the regulations apply to will be on board.

    The dispensation applies to: 153302, 153308, 153311, 153313, 153318, 153319, 153321, 153355, 153357, 153368, 153372, 153374, 153376, 153381, 153382, 153383, 153384 and 153385.

     

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  15. vlad

    vlad Member

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    Hang on - 2-coach trains permanently on the Crewe to Derby line? o_O

    This has changed what was usual so much that it must be ushering in the end of the world, or something similar....
     
  16. InOban

    InOban Established Member

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    Considering that 40+ years ago when my wife and I were users of that service, heading to Derby from Glasgow, it was a busy two coach train....
     
  17. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    40+ years ago it would presumably have been a 2-car heritage DMU, with 18m vehicles, 3+2 bench seating and a third of one of them taken up with a guard's van. So a modern 2x23m unit offers a whackload more space even if not substantially more actual seats!
     
  18. Baxenden Bank

    Baxenden Bank Established Member

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    Yes.
    Eventually Greater Anglia will have some trains which work properly, allowing release of their 156's. The 156's were meant to transfer to EMR to replace 153's at the turn of the year. Had all been well, no 153's would have been operating singly now.

    I fail to get excited about the use of double 153's. Twice as many cramped seats in a decrepit, mechanically life-expired wheelbarrow is no great improvement. Fasten them together permanently, remove several rows of seats and re-space the remainder and they may be worth taking a trip on.
     
  19. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    At least if you have two 153s there are then 24 seats it is possible to sit in rather than 12. (There are 6 tables per coach, right? These are so tightly spaced that only 2 out of the 4 seats are useful, though, ideally people sitting diagonally opposite one another).
     
  20. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    Yep same in Lincolnshire. 2x 153 or 156s on all routes. But the 153s unfortunately are here to stay while EMR bail out greater Anglia. Personally I would have demanded the 156s and sent the 153s to them. (Unless driver knowledge has lapsed).
     
  21. Sprinter107

    Sprinter107 Member

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    It wouldve been a three car class 120. Working a Crewe to Lincoln train.
     
  22. Merthyr Imp

    Merthyr Imp Member

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    For example:

    dmu at Stoke 1980s.jpg
     
  23. ag51ruk

    ag51ruk Member

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    With First Class almost until they were replaced by Sprinters
     
  24. Merthyr Imp

    Merthyr Imp Member

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    I used to travel on them regularly between Nottingham and Lincoln and the First Class area had been downgraded for some years before they were replaced, although I can't remember exactly when. I would always try if possible to make use of the 2+1 former First area with the more comfortable seats.

    Also, some years before the end of them the centre trailer cars had been replaced (again, I can't remember when) by Metro-Cammell trailer cars - and I used to try and avoid them!
     
  25. OrangeJuice

    OrangeJuice Member

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    From many years of commuting Crewe to Derby there are 2 decent tables per coach and in most (although annoyingly not all) one airline row of 'extra legroom' seats near the 'wheelchair' area that are acceptable
     
  26. ashworth

    ashworth Established Member

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    I remember them so well from the the 1970’s when I was at college and used to travel regularly between Lowdham and Derby. I remember the comfortable grey seats and the orange curtains. Amazing that it could have been three cars in those days when today EMR are planning on mainly running 2 car 170’s and Northern are introducing so many 2 car 195’s.

    An hourly Crewe to Lincoln service which ran in those days was so much more useful than what we have today. It provided a through train from Nottingham to Crewe for connections to the North West, Scotland and North Wales. Also a useful through service from Lincoln to Derby for connections to Birmingham, Bristol and the South West. So much more useful for the people of Lincoln than the current service to Leicester.
     
  27. Sprinter107

    Sprinter107 Member

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    Yes, some of those Etches Park 120s had their centre cars replaced with Metro Cammell class 101 cars, but not all of them did. It was about 1983 time I think. I don't blame you for avoiding them. There was just no competition between a seat in a class 101 car, and a seat in a class 120 car. Class 120 beats a class 101 everytime.
     
  28. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    3 X 18 = 54
    2 X 23 = 46

    Shorter, but not that much shorter.
     
  29. Sprinter107

    Sprinter107 Member

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    3 x 19.5 = 58.5
    2 x 23 =46
    The 120s were on a longer underframe.
     
  30. superkev

    superkev Established Member

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    A 3 car 101 beats a 120 on hills - hmm Comfort but grossly underpowered with same engines but longer and heavier (steel rather than aluminium). Non of them beat my favourite dmu the Rolls Royce powered Class 110 calder valley units. Thread getting off topic.
    K
     
  31. 30907

    30907 Established Member

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    But from memory had only 120 seats in second
     

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