East Midlands stock being used by Virgin East Coast

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Red Dragon

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I often use the 1105 from Kings Cross to Leeds on Mondays and the HST stock has become a mixture of Virgin and very old East Midlands stock.

I usually book Coach H and this is an ex East Midlands coach which has not been re-furbished internally so it has the low backed seats, no electrics, and the seat numbering is East Midlands so doesn't tie in with Virgin.
All the pax end up facing the opposite way to their seating choice!
The East Midlands livery is still there in all its faded glory too.

Has anyone any idea when this train set will be replaced/upgraded ?

The 1105 is 1D11 London Kings Cross to Leeds
 
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D365

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Has anyone any idea when this train set will be replaced/upgraded ?

[Coach set] NL65 is on loan to cover for ongoing refurbishment, so presumably will be returned when this programme of works is complete.

The 1105 is 1D11 London Kings Cross to Leeds

That's a familiar number; I often travel home on the early afternoon return journey ;)
 
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samuelmorris

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I thought coach H was the food bar car on the 91 services, and there was no coach G on the (East Coast) HSTs? Furthermore I've usually found that coach unreserved, hence being able to sit there. With the original East Coast fleet, even on a train where the other coaches have power sockets, coach H does not in my experience. I can't speak for the ex- East Midlands fleet as I've not travelled on it.
 

route:oxford

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Has anyone any idea when this train set will be replaced/upgraded ?

It's utter hell when it's covering The Highland Chieftain.

In an ideal world, there would be a bit of swapping about and it would be the first unit to be sent to Scotrail for extensive refurbishment.
 

ainsworth74

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I thought coach H was the food bar car on the 91 services, and there was no coach G on the (East Coast) HSTs? Furthermore I've usually found that coach unreserved, hence being able to sit there. With the original East Coast fleet, even on a train where the other coaches have power sockets, coach H does not in my experience. I can't speak for the ex- East Midlands fleet as I've not travelled on it.

Coach H on an electric set is the buffet and has no sockets due to the power demands from the kitchen (similarly coach J on an HST has no sockets for the same reason) this coach is also always unreserved (HSTs appear to have unreservable seats scattered throughout but no unreservable coach). The HSTs do have a coach G and this is just a bog standard coach. On VTEC sets (i.e. those that have had the Mallard refurbishment) no buffet car seats will have sockets.

I would, if someone wants a power socket, always, therefore, avoid coach H and coach J on VTEC.

It's utter hell when it's covering The Highland Chieftain.

In an ideal world, there would be a bit of swapping about and it would be the first unit to be sent to Scotrail for extensive refurbishment.

Thankfully it should be off back to EMT once the VTEC refurbishment program finishes up so it'll be their problem and on much shorter journeys than it makes on the ECML!
 

yorksrob

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To be fair, it wasn't that long ago that the EMT sets themselves had a facelift so, sockets aside, they shouldn't be too tatty when properly maintained (EMT's ones always seem well enough kept).
 

387star

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Didn't two permanently transfer to vec

Why is there a virgin hst buffet car in a emt rake?

And what will the virgin refurbishment mean for those ex emt sets staying with virgin?

All this proves trainspotters and the mass public disagree on the HST having a great original interior
 

ainsworth74

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Why is there a virgin hst buffet car in a emt rake?

If its the one on short term hire then they'll be using a VTEC buffet as the EMT buffet cannot provide the first class service that a VTEC buffet can (different equipment, both can do a full catering service but VTEC use different equipment to do theirs). So if they used the EMT buffet they'd also have to scrap most of the first class service.
 

43096

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There is plenty of confusion in this thread already, so to try to clear some of it up....

- There are two EMT interior sets with VTEC. One is set EC64, which transferred over some time ago as a 9-car set with power cars 43072/074. This is used on any VTEC HST diagram.
- The other is set NL65 which is sub-leased to VTEC from EMT, with power cars taken from the EMT pool (any two from the fleet). It has a fixed diagram (weekdays 1A12 0700 HUL-KGX, 1D11 1105 KGX-LDS, 1A33 1345 LDS-KGX, 1H10 1719 KGX-HUL, 1J10 2028 HUL–DON - see http://www.125group.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/HST-Diags-VTEC.pdf). It is an 8-car set, which is why it has a fixed diagram and returns to Neville Hill each night. The set has been vinyl wrapped in VTEC livery, but obviously power cars aren't.
- At the moment NL65 is something of a mixture, having some EMT liveried trailers in the set. This is because the EMT fleet (which includes NL65) is starting a C6 overhaul programme.
- TRFB 40805 (which is part of the VTEC fleet and is in VTEC colours) has been used in some EMT sets for the same reason. EMT have no spare buffet in their fleet, so need cover during the C6 work.
 
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Red Dragon

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--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There is plenty of confusion in this thread already, so to try to clear some of it up........

Thanks 43096 that makes it very clear, I now understand what's going on.
 
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Mikey C

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VTEC do seem conscious that the East Midlands unit(s) are inferior, as a few weeks ago I got an email apologising in advance that the train wouldn't have electrical sockets, and explaining why it would have "East Midlands" on the side!
 

43096

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VTEC do seem conscious that the East Midlands unit(s) are inferior, as a few weeks ago I got an email apologising in advance that the train wouldn't have electrical sockets, and explaining why it would have "East Midlands" on the side!
That's in VTEC's view - and they would say that! I actually prefer the EMT interior, though the absence of sockets (in standard, they have them in first) is a niggle. Not sure if they're being fitted during the C6 programme...
 

tbtc

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There are two EMT interior sets with VTEC

Sorry for dragging the thread off-topic, but have there any cutbacks at EMT since the two HSTs moved to East Coast/ VTEC?

I know there are four coach 222s from London to Sheffield (at least one diagram off-peak, on the "semi-fast" service), but I think that's been the case for some time - I'm not aware of any reductions to existing services since the two HSTs moved (?).

Just wondering what'll happen if/when NL65 moves back and EMT have some extra capacity... (or will they just use it as an opportunity to enhance their maintenance schedules?)
 

43074

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Sorry for dragging the thread off-topic, but have there any cutbacks at EMT since the two HSTs moved to East Coast/ VTEC?

I know there are four coach 222s from London to Sheffield (at least one diagram off-peak, on the "semi-fast" service), but I think that's been the case for some time - I'm not aware of any reductions to existing services since the two HSTs moved (?).

Just wondering what'll happen if/when NL65 moves back and EMT have some extra capacity... (or will they just use it as an opportunity to enhance their maintenance schedules?)

There have been no cutbacks as far as the public are concerned at EMT, although the hot spare at Etches Park is now diagrammed a 5-car 222 rather than a HST.
 

TheKnightWho

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I remember seeing a coach that was half refurbished at Newcastle a few years ago! I can't remember what the outside livery was, but the inside had some EMT seats and some (presumably) EC seats. My memory's only vague on the details, but I do remember the mix, and being quite confused as to why it was only half finished.
 

sprinterguy

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I remember seeing a coach that was half refurbished at Newcastle a few years ago! I can't remember what the outside livery was, but the inside had some EMT seats and some (presumably) EC seats. My memory's only vague on the details, but I do remember the mix, and being quite confused as to why it was only half finished.
That's TGS 44073, part of the the ex-EMT set EC64. It's fitted with twenty Grammer seats, of the design used by FGW, alongside the usual IC70s. According to a thread on here from four years ago, luggage racks from throughout the train were removed when the set moved to East Coast, and IC70 seats from the TGS moved to fill in the gaps, with a group of the Grammer seats being fitted in their place in the TGS rather than dispersed randomly through the train.
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=53187
 
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TheKnightWho

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That's TGS 44073, part of the the ex-EMT set EC64. It's fitted with twenty Grammer seats, of the design used by FGW, alongside the usual IC70s. According to a thread on here from four years ago, luggage racks from throughout the train were removed when the set moved to East Coast, and IC70 seats from the TGS moved to fill in the gaps, with a group of the Grammer seats being fitted in their place in the TGS rather than dispersed randomly through the train.
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=53187

That's it! I had a feeling the non-EMT seats were FGW rather than EC, but I thought to myself that that would be too weird to be possible for a coach working EC services.
 

PaxmanValenta

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I often use the 1105 from Kings Cross to Leeds on Mondays and the HST stock has become a mixture of Virgin and very old East Midlands stock.

I usually book Coach H and this is an ex East Midlands coach which has not been re-furbished internally so it has the low backed seats, no electrics, and the seat numbering is East Midlands so doesn't tie in with Virgin.
All the pax end up facing the opposite way to their seating choice!
The East Midlands livery is still there in all its faded glory too.

Has anyone any idea when this train set will be replaced/upgraded ?

The 1105 is 1D11 London Kings Cross to Leeds

Probably best to take the matter up with the rail company, VTEC if you check their website and contact them they may be able to put you in the right direction as to who deals with rolling stock. I can't say the situation your experiencing on this service is good or bad.
I was actually quite surprised that they didn't use the same livery as VTWC but I guess certain colours go over underlying colours better than others, like the original GWR livery in the late 1990s was used initially to cover over the existing intercity swallow livery.
I'd like to help more but find they having a constructive opinion doesn't often lead to discussion because there are a few people who get very upset if you criticise one particular type of train over another, so much that instead of discussing the matter constructively they'd sooner report the person and get their opinion deleted with an endorsement on their record. Personally it doesn't upset me I'm happy to discuss rather than click report. I like railways a lot but I'm not so obsessed with them that I'd get very upset if someone said one trains better than another.
So VTEC has only been running the service for a short time and I'm sure they will improve and refurbish their stock in the near future, probably rebranding them with the silver and red livery used on VTWC with new seating etc. Probably some are in the workshops being revamped right now :)
 

43096

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like the original GWR livery in the late 1990s was used initially to cover over the existing intercity swallow livery.
No.... It was GWT (Great Western Trains) at the time and it was a new livery applied on fleet refurbishment. The previous InterCity livery was not covered over on unrefurbished sets.

For someone with that username you aren't exactly clued up on HSTs. Bet you wouldn't recognise a Valenta if it fell on top of you...
 

LowLevel

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I believe EMTs buffet shortage came about following this rather unfortunate depot accident a few years ago which led to the scrapping of a number of trailers including the buffet - http://leytr.blogspot.co.uk/2009/11/neville-hill-derailment.html?m=1

The EMT fleet seems to be working harder with the transfer of sets to EC with more apparently on the horizon to move - failure rates seem to have increased as have short formations.
 

Red Dragon

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The guard always issues an apology before leaving Kings X on 1D11 and repeats the apology at some of the intermediate calling points too.
 

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Seems odd midland mainline never refurbished their HSTs properly

I can only assume the MML is pretty quiet beyond bedford as with fgw there was chronic overcrowding before their 'tombstone' refurbishment let alone the issue of power points

Guess the 7 car (originally 9 car) meridians that were surplus to requirements made matters less pressing...
 
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43096

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The EMT fleet seems to be working harder with the transfer of sets to EC with more apparently on the horizon to move - failure rates seem to have increased as have short formations.
EMT had 10 sets (before NL65 went over) to cover 8 sets in traffic and one as the "hot spare" at Etches Park. The spare turn is now covered by a 5-car 222, which released one set for sub-lease to VTEC. The other set is on maintenance at Neville Hill - it also covers maintenance on NL65. Please enlighten us where these extra sets to go to VTEC are going to come from, without cutting services on the Midland.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Seems odd midland mainline never refurbished their HSTs properly
Depends on your definition of refurbish I suppose. If you mean "put less comfortable seats in" then I'm glad they didn't. But I would classify the work MML did on them as a refurbishment.
 

sprinterguy

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So VTEC has only been running the service for a short time and I'm sure they will improve and refurbish their stock in the near future, probably rebranding them with the silver and red livery used on VTWC with new seating etc.
The set in question though is only being hired to VT East Coast for the duration of their own refurbishment programme, so will not be refurbished by VTEC.

The actual Virgin East Coast HST sets are not having new seats fitted, although the shape of the seat squabs is reportedly being changed and new (red) upholstery fitted.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Depends on your definition of refurbish I suppose. If you mean "put less comfortable seats in" then I'm glad they didn't. But I would classify the work MML did on them as a refurbishment.
I'm not certain of what EMT have done since, but certainly the refurbishment originally carried out by Midland Mainline was of a standard comparable with those carried out concurrently by GNER, Virgin Crosscountry and Great Western Trains/FGW, which seemed fairly thorough at the time. The difference of course is that the other TOCs HST fleets have since moved beyond this level under the auspices of subsequent franchisees.
 
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38Cto15E

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How do you East Coast passengers get on with having fixed seat armrests on the EMT HST's? This is in First as well as Standard I believe.
I enjoy it when I have a ride on the ECML and can fold up the armrest if no one is sitting next to me.
 

LowLevel

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EMT had 10 sets (before NL65 went over) to cover 8 sets in traffic and one as the "hot spare" at Etches Park. The spare turn is now covered by a 5-car 222, which released one set for sub-lease to VTEC. The other set is on maintenance at Neville Hill - it also covers maintenance on NL65. Please enlighten us where these extra sets to go to VTEC are going to come from, without cutting services on the Midland.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Depends on your definition of refurbish I suppose. If you mean "put less comfortable seats in" then I'm glad they didn't. But I would classify the work MML did on them as a refurbishment.

I have no idea unfortunately - that's just the internal rumour that's going round. It was accurate before so no reason to be wrong this time - we shall see I guess! Same internal rumour suggests at least one if not two more SWT 158s heading north to cover overhaul work on the EMT fleet and expansion of Matlock to Newark services to Saturday.
 

westv

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How do you East Coast passengers get on with having fixed seat armrests on the EMT HST's? This is in First as well as Standard I believe.
I enjoy it when I have a ride on the ECML and can fold up the armrest if no one is sitting next to me.

It's a pain in the rear. It's also a pain when the airline style window seat you selected turns out to be a table aisle seat.
We've had the EMT hand me downs for over a year now on the Hull Executive. The only benefit is that 1st class gets the evening meal option rather than the all day menu option.
 

Eliottjames

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I was at Kings Cross yesterday and happened to spot an East Midlands HST power car in one of the platforms. Naturally I investigated and found that the set was formed of a combination of VTEC and East Midlands Mark 3's, but the Virgin carriages had the same interiors as the East Midlands ones. I only caught the number of the leading power car- 43058 (also an EMT unit). Does anyone know why VETC were using this set? I've never seen this before and was especially surprised that their coaches had matching interiors with the EMT ones?
 
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