East Midlands Trains - diversionary route / transport

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43074

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Qwerty was NOT proposing replacement buses. What he was proposing was that EMT should run the normal timetable north of Leicester, as this part of the route is unaffected. Agreed that the majority of passengers are to/from London, but there are a significant number of passengers who travel between Leicester and stations northward, e.g. those connecting to and from XC and Stansted services. There is no need for them to suffer a reduced timetable. Only services south of Leicester need run to an amended timetable due to the diversion. What Qwerty was suggesting was that the MML should be run in two halves, normal timetable to the north of Leicester, diversionary timetable to the south, with through passengers changing at Leicester. No buses.

The problem I can see with his suggestion would be platform capacity at Leicester. With all services from the north and all services from the south terminating at Leicester, in addition to the XCs and Stansteds, there would be a lot of trains starting/terminating in those four platforms.

I would be surprised if they had the trains and crew to resource that sort of service, and there would literally be trainloads of passengers changing at Leicester at any one time, to summarise it would cause more problems than it solves.
 
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edwin_m

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The obvious patching issues in various places show yet again why EMT shouldn't be running through services when the line is closed. It would be much better for the services to be split at Leicester so that the more favourable normal paths north thereof can be used rather than whatever fits around everyone else and ends up with several long waits.
The timetable for the rest of this week has an hourly Sheffield train saving about 20min by using Syston north curve and avoiding Leicester completely. The Nottingham train runs into Leicester and makes intermediate stops but connects at EM Parkway into the faster train. The second Sheffield train also runs via Leicester. So I think it strikes quite a good balance - although it so happens the fast option via Harringworth isn't convenient for the meeting I have to go to in London so I'm going via Grantham instead.
 

ComUtoR

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The 1447 takes 3hr 13m and gets there at 1800 - 2 Changes (BUS)
The 1534 takes 3hr 11m and gets there at 1845 - 2 Changes (trains only)

Not sure I'd take the 1440.
 

30907

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The 1447 takes 3hr 13m and gets there at 1800 - 2 Changes (BUS)
The 1534 takes 3hr 11m and gets there at 1845 - 2 Changes (trains only)

Not sure I'd take the 1440.
I think you are looking at a different day? 1440 runs Sunday 2 June
 

Qwerty133

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That service falls into the path of a normal London - Sheffield service from Leicester. The 6 min at Derby is to allow for a cross country to go north at 1748. North of Sheffield this time its a additional service. There is a departure at 1831 to Leeds via Moorthorpe so the 10 min wait is probably to allow time clear for the EMT service.
It simply doesn't. The Leicester to Sheffield service on a Sunday is at xx:42, and the Derby terminator leaves at xx:02 on the normal timetable.
 

43055

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It simply doesn't. The Leicester to Sheffield service on a Sunday is at xx:42, and the Derby terminator leaves at xx:02 on the normal timetable.
That pattern starts later with the Sheffield at xx:42-45 with the 1744 ex Leicester. Early on in afternoon the Sheffield departures are around xx:05-10 past the hour.
upload_2019-5-27_19-49-42.png
 

duffield

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That is one fantastically slow journey!

But nothing compared to the time when there were network-wide speed restricitions after the Hatfield Rail Crash in 2000, I seem to remember Nottingham to St. Pancras taking 4+ hours at a maximum of 50mph...

(Memory may be faulty though).
 

Belperpete

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I would be surprised if they had the trains and crew to resource that sort of service.......
Running the standard timetabled service north of Leicester wouldn't need any more trains or crew than the standard timetabled service!
 

43074

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Running the standard timetabled service north of Leicester wouldn't need any more trains or crew than the standard timetabled service!

Two points: first the diversion incurs a longer journey time therefore needing more trains and crew, secondly the diagrams would have to be rewritten to take account of terminating at Leicester, which probably wouldn't work anyway. The combination of the two will almost certainly cost more to run.
 

Belperpete

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Two points: first the diversion incurs a longer journey time therefore needing more trains and crew, secondly the diagrams would have to be rewritten to take account of terminating at Leicester, which probably wouldn't work anyway. The combination of the two will almost certainly cost more to run.
The diversion is south of Leicester. Although the diversionary route is longer, it has less capacity, so the service is halved, requiring less trains and crew. Agreed that the diagrams would have to be rewritten, but they had to be rewritten anyway for the diversion. So I don't see that it would have cost any more.
 

edwin_m

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The fast Sheffield trains are avoiding Leicester during the diversion, so even if journey times weren't extended extra stock and crews (and paths!) would be needed to fill those gaps at Leicester. The alternative would be to run those trains into Leicester and out again, extending the fastest available journeys by some 20min for the benefit of passengers between Leicester and the north who still have an alternative through service every hour.
 

Belperpete

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The fast Sheffield trains are avoiding Leicester during the diversion, so even if journey times weren't extended extra stock and crews (and paths!) would be needed to fill those gaps at Leicester. The alternative would be to run those trains into Leicester and out again, extending the fastest available journeys by some 20min for the benefit of passengers between Leicester and the north who still have an alternative through service every hour.
But Qwerty's suggestion, that 43074 claimed would need extra trains and crew, did not involve fast trains avoiding Leicester.
 

edwin_m

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But Qwerty's suggestion, that 43074 claimed would need extra trains and crew, did not involve fast trains avoiding Leicester.
But as I pointed out it results in longer journey times than the diversionary service being offered. Even more so if everyone has to change at Leicester into some random non-connection southwards because through trains aren't being run.
 

ChiefPlanner

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Feedback really - but avoiding GTR chaos this am , I got the 1028 off Luton Airport Parkway to Leicester , formed of a HST and thoroughly enjoyed the run via Corby and Oakham to Leicester - where the train reversed for Nottingham. (as the ECML option of returning via Peterborough was out due to a "One under" at Huntingdon , I diverted via Nuneaton to Birmingham New Street. Equally enjoyable.

Considerable effort has clearly gone into the timetabling (and well done!) - with the Syston - Manton - Corby route very well used - no less than 3 freights passed and about 3 diverted EMT services.

The idea of the run out was to have a look at the MML works , which seem to be a veritable mix of various trades. Noted in particular the start of the new berthing sidings at Kettering. The new Quail which I had was particularly helpful.

In passing - there does not seem to be much use made of the Wigston South Curve - and Croft seems a bit rusty. Any observations from the learned here ?
 

The Planner

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Croft is at the end of its useful life I believe and there is certainly plans to fill the hole with HS2 spoil.
 

duffield

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Had a trip round the diversion yesterday (I've done it before but it's always enjoyable), Nottingham->Kettering->Nottingham.
Extensive works on P3/P4 at Kettering, platforms being partly rebuilt and some track renewals. Does anyone know if the Kettering works are just like-for-like renewals or are there some improvements involved (e.g. line speed improvements for non-stopping services)?
 

matacaster

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1st class offer as EMT describe it (read carefully to understand what you get when it's sunday - as per my post above really, not much.
https://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.u...irst-class-train-travel/#First-Class-Weekend-

Pretty sure you can use the 1st class lounge at St P too, assuming it is open

It has 2 and a half 1st class carriages.
Usually one carriage, and sometimes the buffet car 1st class seating area (the old restaurant car area), is left mostly unreserved in 1st class - with all the discounted reservations in the other full carriage. So I sit in the unreserved one (usually Coach H) as usually more space and less people in that one / noise. They are not bothered if you are not in your allocated '1st Advance seat' in my experience, tho of course you must be on the correct train it is booked on.

EMT HSTs seem a bit 'bouncy' sometimes so I'd advocate sitting towards the middle of the 1st class carriage for greater comfort, as opposed to sitting over the bogies.

Plug sockets fitted and free wifi provided in 1st class seating area of their HSTs (not in standard class)

Sadly first class lounge at stP only open Monday to Friday.
 

Class 170101

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Thank you for that Planner , sounds "a plan" ......West Ruislip to Croft would be an interesting one to plan ..sorry :E

Yes indeed. Looks easier heading south from West Ruislip, towards Castle Bar Park, West Ealing, Acton Mainline, then Dudding Hill, MML, Market Harborough, Wigston South Jn or via Corby and Leicester instead of Market Harborough.

Heading north looks harder, West Ruislip, Chiltern Lines to Small Heath then Landor Street, Coleshill, Wichnor Jn, then Coalville and Wigston North Jn or via Castle Donnington instead of Coalville

<cough>December 19</cough>

An interesting schedule to time. Mostly running at night I guess?
 

The Planner

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Wait until Dec 19 appears in Realtimetrains, you will see an abundance of HS2 related paths, plenty during the day.
 
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