East-West Doncaster avoiding lines (current usage)

[Chris Butler]

Living far away, I’m interested (in a general sense) in the three lines that avoid Doncaster in a general E-W direction (see map). They are shown in green, blue and yellow.

Is the following about right ? I’d be grateful for corrections and further (general) info on the traffic over these routes.

• None of them carry any regular scheduled passenger services ?
  
  
• Eastbound the freight traffic is pretty much all heading for North or South Humberside (Immingham, Lindsey, Humber Refinery, Scunthorpe) with a tiny amount to Selby and Goole ?
  
  
• The yellow route (Worksop direction) has very little traffic. I’m not sure if the traffic on this line is through traffic or originating somewhere on the line.
  
  
• Both the blue (Mexborough) and Yellow (ECML, Pontefract & Wakefield) have a very significant amount of freight traffic.
  
  
• Traffic heading west then north on the ECML takes the yellow route direct onto the ECML (or does any go the longer trek via Pontefract & Church Fenton).
  
  
• Pretty much all the freight that can use these lines does to reduce congestion through Doncaster itself. Consequently, the freight flows through Doncaster are only heading to, from south on the ECML or via Lincoln. (I know that there are two lines through Doncaster that avoid the platforms).
  
  
• Traffic from Decoy, Belmont and Doncaster Railport also use the blue and yellow routes, but I assume that Decoy and Doncaster Railport rarely use the blue route to avoid crossing the ECML.
  

Do the avoiding lines have names ?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Blue (double track) is the "Doncaster Avoiding Line(s)".

Yellow (almost entirely double track) is the "Up and down Skellow".

Green (mostly single track) is the "South Yorkshire Joint Line".

Happy to be corrected on any of these.

 

[Pit_buzzer]

Blue (double track) is the "Doncaster Avoiding Line(s)".

Yellow (almost entirely double track) is the "Up and down Skellow".

Green (mostly single track) is the "South Yorkshire Joint Line".

Happy to be corrected on any of these.

Whilst there are no regular passenger services on any of them the skellow lines (yellow) were used by the Doncaster to Scunthorpe stoppers for a few days during the floods last november when the Kirk Sandal area was impassable

 

[mailbyrail]

The last one of these lines to have a timetabled passenger service was the 'Up & Down Skellow' which had a once a day, one direction only Leeds to Grimsby service in the 1970s. Not sure when it ceased.
The South Yorkshire passenger service ended in the 1920s but I don't think it ever avoided Doncaster using the stretch via Armthorpe. I believe that stretch has only ever been for freight with passenger trains running into Doncaster.
Don't know of any passenger services over the Doncaster Avoider, but it's possible there were seasonal trains from Sheffield to Bridlington for example

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Would I be right in saying that only the (green) "South Yorkshire Joint Line" ever had intermediate stations, namely Dinnington & Laughton, Maltby, and Tickhill & Wadworth, all three closed to passengers as long ago as 1929.

 

[mailbyrail]

Would I be right in saying that only the (green) "South Yorkshire Joint Line" ever had intermediate stations, namely Dinnington & Laughton, Maltby, and Tickhill & Wadworth, all three closed to passengers as long ago as 1929.

Certainly that was my understanding - I lived in both Doncaster and Worksop in the 1970s.
None of the stations on the South Yorkshire line was conveniently situated for the places they served. At that time the line was so busy with coal trains there would have been little chance to run a passenger service over the single line as well.

 

[MarkyT]

Here's my work in progress map of the Doncaster area, capturing the extent of railways in 1948. The teal coloured lines have since been removed and I'm going to add new lines in red where there has been significant remodelling work since such as around Joan Croft and the Carr Junctions. There will also be route and company names, with opening and, where appropriate, closing dates. I've been using historic OS mapping to research details. Note the eastern bypass section of the South Yorkshire Joint has always been predominantly single track although there were some loops and sidings en-route, associated with Markham Main colliery.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Would this 1948 map include now closed stations in the Doncaster area, such as Arksey?

 

[MarkyT]

Would this 1948 map include now closed stations in the Doncaster area, such as Arksey?

I was only going to include those that were open at the time but I think I'll indicate 'site of' details for stations closed before this and their dates where I can find them. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

No worries. Arksey closed to passengers c. 1952, I believe, and not much to show that there was ever a station there, despite the ECML through the site obviously still being operational.

 

[Teaboy1]

I dont think the future prospects look good for the old SYJR line south of Doncaster. South of St Katherines junction, lines not seen any traffic this year probably linked to closure of Cottam power and loss of coal traffic. West Burton A still open but not generated since February 2020. Lines now rusty and unused.
Traffic to iPort and Track Ballast yard at Belmont still use Low Ellers spur and north to Kirk Sandall but thats all.
Bizarre really as NotWork Rail renewed several bridge decks in 2016 and now it looks like closure by stealth.
Maltby Box still manned at some expense but believe its due to close in 2024 ??
Shame really I spent years lineside on that track.

 

[eastwestdivide]

dont think the future prospects look good for the old SYJR line south of Doncaster. South of St Katherines junction, lines not seen any traffic this year...

Light engine yesterday:

Realtime Trains - 047A 1048 Leeds Balm Rd Loco (Fhh) to High Marnham Powergen

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Test train on 19th Oct:

Realtime Trains - 112J 0852 Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Barlby Loops

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It doesn't take long for rust to take hold in the right conditions.

 

[Teaboy1]

OK thanks. That I was unaware of but its still only just hanging in there! LE and a Yellow banana will hardly guarantee its future.

How does one search RTT without the headcode?

 

[swt_passenger]

OK thanks. That I was unaware of but its still only just hanging in there! LE and a Yellow banana will hardly guarantee its future.

How does one search RTT without the headcode?

On the RTT advanced search page, enter a relevant location on the route you‘re interested in, select “all day” in the “When” option. I chose St Catherine’s Junction, all day, today (there may be a better choice):

Realtime Trains | Departures from St.Catherines Jn. all day on 22/10/2020

Train information at St.Catherines Jn. all day on 22/10/2020. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

And you can also select filtering options that narrow down a route using “calls previously“ or “calls subsequently”

 

[CW2]

The Doncaster area was resignalled in 1978-9. During that period there were various diversions in place for days or weeks at a time, as different areas were remodelled and resignalled. For example:
24/06/78 21:00 Newcastle - Kings Cross via Joan Croft Jn, Applehurst Jn to Stainforth & Hatfield, reverse, thence to Doncaster and forward as booked.
14/03/79 00:32 (retimed) Leeds - Kings X via Selby Canal Jn
14/03/79 04:02 Doncaster - Hull via Carcroft Jn, Skellow Jn, Stainforth.
I think the Selby Canal diversion was on for a couple of weeks.
As far as I am aware there were no diversions via the more exotic and rarer South Yorkshire Joint or Doncaster Avoiding Line, nor have there been any regular passenger services on those particular lines for many years or even decades.

 

[asdirective]

The Northern crews at Doncaster sign Stainforth Jn to Carcroft Jn in case of diversions. There is a late night Sunday ECS from Goole to Doncaster that goes that way.

Realtime Trains - 5C60 2347 Goole to Doncaster

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[lyndhurst25]

I've been keeping an eye on the declining traffic on the SYJR south of Doncaster over the past few years. Very little, if any, actual freight traffic now. It was mainly coal to West Burton and Cottam, but there was a regular stone train from North Yorkshire to Wellingborough, that I think goes by another route now.

Recently there have been engineering trains to Dinnington and Brancliffe Junction, so presumably money being spent on maintenance there. Stock storage moves from Doncaster to Worksop, one taking Mk4 carriages - they should have made it a railtour and sold tickets! Moves from Doncaster Works to W H Davis wagon works at Langwith Junction also. Other than that, just Network Rail test trains and light engine moves.


37612 near Brookhouse Viaduct on the SYJR on 4th August 2020..

 

[Pit_buzzer]

I can remember seeing 158s bypassing Doncaster from Bentley Junction to Hexthorpe junction, possibly whilst South Yorkshire Junction was being redoubled.
I've also headed up the Thorne line and reversed at Bentley junction to gain the Shefield line at Hexthorpe Junction. Can't remember if it was at the same time as the above, I seem to remember it was a 156 so probably a Hull to Sheffield service.

 

[Teaboy1]

Looking st RTT, the RH column [ACT DEP] is suffixed [Q] which the pop-up states 'runs as required' means that only likely less than half will actually run given state of economy at moment.
Still I shall try to catch 6B71 on Monday 26th although I have not seen any sign that WB PS is actually generating or making steam since February [I can see WB towers etc from house].
Thanks for heads up with RTT, shall use a bit more often now its existence known.

 

[Chris Butler]

raffic to iPort and Track Ballast yard at Belmont still use Low Ellers spur and north to Kirk Sandall but thats all.

As far as I am aware there were no diversions via the more exotic and rarer South Yorkshire Joint or Doncaster Avoiding Line, nor have there been any regular passenger services on those particular lines for many years or even decades.

The Northern crews at Doncaster sign Stainforth Jn to Carcroft Jn in case of diversions. There is a late night Sunday ECS from Goole to Doncaster that goes that way.

I've been keeping an eye on the declining traffic on the SYJR south of Doncaster over the past few years.

I can remember seeing 158s bypassing Doncaster from Bentley Junction to Hexthorpe junction,

Thanks all for useful comments. I hadn't really made the connection between West Burton and Cottam's demise and a decline in traffic over the South Yorkshire Joint line.

Two questions:-

1) As some have commented, a number of services reverse at St.Catherines Jn.. I assume that involves the loco running round. Where exactly is that done ? In the sidings at iPort ?

2) The South Yorkshire Joint and "Robin Hood Line" combined seem to offer an alternate route, avoiding the ECML and MML as far south as Nottingham, thus providing some useful capacity. Obviously, that doesn't mean it's economical to keep the route open, but are there any more fundamental obstacles to using that route (for freight) other than the usual economics of operating/maintaining the line. For example, are there subsidence or tortuous curve issues that impose impractical speed limits ?

 

[Bob figgis]

1Q68 Doncaster West Yard to Derby operated today and used the SYJL.

Teaboy dont hold your breath waiting for 6B71 on Monday it hasn’t run in a long long time.

The route suggested by Chris above as a diversion for freight. A couple of draw backs I can think of would be the manual signal section on the north end of the Robin Hood line and then on the SYJL there is a substantial section of single line between Dinnington Junction and St. Catherine’s Junction that may impact on paths available. But for me an excellent alternative for freight. Could containers be sent peterboro - Syston- MML to Pinxton and then Robin Hood and SYJL to iPort and beyond. It could relieve some pressure on Lincoln.

 

[eastwestdivide]

1) As some have commented, a number of services reverse at St.Catherines Jn.. I assume that involves the loco running round. Where exactly is that done ? In the sidings at iPort ?

Not necessarily - I've watched them run round there before the iport was open. Draw up on the double track section, run forward towards Maltby onto the single track, reverse towards Doncaster onto the other track of the double track section, cross over near the M18*, join up and away

* google maps link showing crossover:

53°29'16.8"N 1°06'23.5"W · Loversall, Doncaster

Loversall, Doncaster

goo.gl

 

[Teaboy1]

Heavy freight has always used the SYJR, have watched hundreds of Coalers flogging up the grade through Maltby and past Roche Abbey with 66's flat out so line was always capable. Max grade is about 1:100 but not unknown for local nutters/morons/thugs to drive stolen cars/vans along track and torch em when they seize up!
Spur onto iPort is facing wrong way to approach from south so thats hardly ever likely to happen.

Think however as a diversionary route, the Robin Hood Line better as it is quicker and flatter.
Never saw 1Q68 on RTT??

 

[Chris Butler]

Not necessarily - I've watched them run round there before the iport was open. Draw up on the double track section, run forward towards Maltby onto the single track, reverse towards Doncaster onto the other track of the double track section, cross over near the M18*, join up and away

* google maps link showing crossover:

53°29'16.8"N 1°06'23.5"W · Loversall, Doncaster

Loversall, Doncaster

goo.gl

OK. So right next to iPort ? Thanks.

 

[eastwestdivide]

OK. So right next to iPort ? Thanks.

Yep. Finally found my photo of a service running round beside iport in Sep 2018. Looking more or less southwards (towards Maltby), the loco has brought the wagons up to the left-hand of the two visible red signals, then run forward onto the single line. The headlight's on, ready to come back on the other track, cross back over, couple up and depart northwards :

 

[Chris Butler]

Yep. Finally found my photo of a service running round beside iport in Sep 2018. Looking more or less southwards (towards Maltby), the loco has brought the wagons up to the left-hand of the two visible red signals, then run forward onto the single line. The headlight's on, ready to come back on the other track, cross back over, couple up and depart northwards :
View attachment 85053

Can't get a clearer answer than that! Thanks.

 

[Chris Butler]

RailMart has posted a cab ride down the SYJR today on YouTube today. It's from when iPort was still being built, but HD quality.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

RailMart has posted a cab ride down the SYJR today on YouTube today. It's from when iPort was still being built, but HD quality.

Yes, I watched that yesterday. I wish it had continued for another mile or so.

 

[Teaboy1]

Excellent.
Not a view I have ever witnessed.
Good YT posting.

 

[Mickrich]

Here's my work in progress map of the Doncaster area, capturing the extent of railways in 1948. The teal coloured lines have since been removed and I'm going to add new lines in red where there has been significant remodelling work since such as around Joan Croft and the Carr Junctions. There will also be route and company names, with opening and, where appropriate, closing dates. I've been using historic OS mapping to research details. Note the eastern bypass section of the South Yorkshire Joint has always been predominantly single track although there were some loops and sidings en-route, associated with Markham Main colliery.
View attachment 84564

Halo Mark, have you any info on ST Catherines jn signal box. I was a signalman there circa 1966