East West Rail (EWR) mentioned in Budget 2024: what should happen next?

[Trainman40083]

It's only 30 miles or so from Oxford to Bletchley, and only 15 from Bletchley to Bedford, so any battery-electric solution (for an OXF-MKC service) isn't going to atually need wires except at Oxford station. Which hopefully will be coming eventually as part of Didcot-Oxford electrification.

Bedford to the ECML at Tempsford is 10 miles, and Tempsford to Shelford is 20, so no great distances there either. All in all a great route for batterification.

Speculating now, I'd imagine OHLE at:

• Oxford station feeding from Didcot
• Bletchley high level, fed from the WCML and extending along the Bletchely flyover to at least the first overbridge.
• Electrification of Bedford to Tempsford, fed from both the MML and from ECML.
• Long runouts at Shelford, fed from the Royston line.

They might have to boost some grid feeders, depending on current capacity. But with batteries and smart scheduling it should be possible to programme the recharging profiles to take the greatest current at places where there is already capacity in the system.

If modelling shows it is neeed, then the Oxford - Bletchley gap could be shortened by extending at whichever end was cheaper.

Hopefully EWR could be electrified at very low cost. Was the new Bletchley flyover built with places where OHLE masts can simply be bolted on? And is the EWR route west of there is suitable for overnight installation of OHLE using the high output HOPS electrification train?

The electrification plan seems to suggest there will be no electrically hauled freight.

 

[NickBucks]

Posters are commenting upon the completion of the Didcot- Oxford electrification scheme but hasn't technology moved on reflected by the decision to run E-W services with discontinuous electrification ? Surely this is now the way forward with considerable cost savings. As Nottingham59 has posted above the distances are quite small. Electrification of Oxford Station/ sidings (only) and Bedford should be feasible and I would guess that Oxford- Didcot should be no problem with limited masts at Oxford and of course Didcot is already wired.A decision has to be made about the Chiltern line Oxford- Marylebone and surely this type of technology should suit that with just a few masts at say High Wycombe and Marylebone. Then with blue sky thinking you have the solution to Marylebone- Aylesbury via Amersham if the powers that be are ruling out third rail extensions. I see that this type of technology is being seriously considered for the SW lines to Exeter. Discontinuous electrification along these lines would also allow for a decent number of units to be procured also providing cost savings.

 

[Trainman40083]

Posters are commenting upon the completion of the Didcot- Oxford electrification scheme but hasn't technology moved on reflected by the decision to run E-W services with discontinuous electrification ? Surely this is now the way forward with considerable cost savings. As Nottingham59 has posted above the distances are quite small. Electrification of Oxford Station/ sidings (only) and Bedford should be feasible and I would guess that Oxford- Didcot should be no problem with limited masts at Oxford and of course Didcot is already wired.A decision has to be made about the Chiltern line Oxford- Marylebone and surely this type of technology should suit that with just a few masts at say High Wycombe and Marylebone. Then with blue sky thinking you have the solution to Marylebone- Aylesbury via Amersham if the powers that be are ruling out third rail extensions. I see that this type of technology is being seriously considered for the SW lines to Exeter. Discontinuous electrification along these lines would also allow for a decent number of units to be procured also providing cost savings.

I guess if you don't electrify all the line, you end up diesel hauling EMR emus from Kettering etc to Northampton (for maintenance) for years.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Posters are commenting upon the completion of the Didcot- Oxford electrification scheme but hasn't technology moved on reflected by the decision to run E-W services with discontinuous electrification ? Surely this is now the way forward with considerable cost savings. As Nottingham59 has posted above the distances are quite small. Electrification of Oxford Station/ sidings (only) and Bedford should be feasible and I would guess that Oxford- Didcot should be no problem with limited masts at Oxford and of course Didcot is already wired.

That only makes sense if you treat Didcot-Oxford as an island which only has the local stopping trains.

Full electrification means you can run 387s all the way up the Thames valley to Oxford, and IETs can run electric through from Paddington to Oxford.

Discontinuous electrification would mean you'd need to replace 387s (or abandon any hope of through running for the stopper, which given the thriving "Science Vale" economy would be a missed opportunity), and wouldn't offer any benefit to IET services.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

This discontinuous electrification has all the hallmarks of an operational problem and cost for many years to come to save some upfront costs.

 

[Trainman40083]

This discontinuous electrification has all the hallmarks of an operational problem and cost for many years to come to save some upfront costs.

Exactly. Do it right, first time. Saves you the cost of doing it twice...

 

[John R]

Discontinuous electrification also means that you have the additional cost of the batteries (both £££ and environmental), and that they then cart that weight around whether using battery or overhead meaning lower carbon efficiency and higher energy cost.

 

[Nottingham59]

Electrification currently costs £2-3 million per single track kilometre.
Compared to those prices, the cost of batteries is minor.

 

[eastdyke]

Electrification currently costs £2-3 million per single track kilometre.
Compared to those prices, the cost of batteries is minor.

Good to know, is that as new build or to retro fit?

There must be a balance point to build and operate a railway though. I would expect to be quids in on a rural service at 2tph but not, say, for the MML.

I can just hear in 10 years time:
'We are upgrading your railway due more trains running than expected. We are sorry for the inconvenience caused'

 

[Elecman]

It would make more sense to electrify as much as possible and just use permanently earthed wire runs under those bridge s not rebuilt during the EWR reconstruction works, then as more cash becomes available to rebuild those in time and complete Electrification.
There is a AT substation near the EWR at Lambs Sidings near the flyover Southwest of Bletchley station. Ther will also eventually be a 400 kV Grid Supply Point at Clayson for HS2 that could be utilised for EWR.

 

[12LDA28C]

If you divert one of the half-hourly trains to Bedford then MKC misses out. If you add a third train then Oxford is potentially over capacity (for now) and the residents of Bicester will kick off about London Road level crossing.

Although there are plenty of trains from Bletchley to MKC and you don't think the residents of Bicester will 'kick off' anyway when EWR services start running!?

Posters are commenting upon the completion of the Didcot- Oxford electrification scheme but hasn't technology moved on reflected by the decision to run E-W services with discontinuous electrification ? Surely this is now the way forward with considerable cost savings. As Nottingham59 has posted above the distances are quite small. Electrification of Oxford Station/ sidings (only) and Bedford should be feasible and I would guess that Oxford- Didcot should be no problem with limited masts at Oxford and of course Didcot is already wired.A decision has to be made about the Chiltern line Oxford- Marylebone and surely this type of technology should suit that with just a few masts at say High Wycombe and Marylebone. Then with blue sky thinking you have the solution to Marylebone- Aylesbury via Amersham if the powers that be are ruling out third rail extensions. I see that this type of technology is being seriously considered for the SW lines to Exeter. Discontinuous electrification along these lines would also allow for a decent number of units to be procured also providing cost savings.

Masts at Marylebone? That's literally the last location that's likely to see OHLE on the Chiltern route. Aylesbury can also not be electrified.

 

[Magdalia]

This discontinuous electrification has all the hallmarks of an operational problem and cost for many years to come to save some upfront costs.

Exactly. Do it right, first time. Saves you the cost of doing it twice...

I disagree. The 1980s electrifications in this part of the world were done as quickly and cheaply as possible, then the revenue from the improvements in services was used to go back and improve, for example with more feeder stations, new neutral sections and longer platforms.

I see discontinuous electrification in a similar way, but with the most expensive bits of overhead line never needed at all.

 

[Nottingham59]

It would make more sense to electrify as much as possible and just use permanently earthed wire runs under those bridge s not rebuilt during the EWR reconstruction works,

OHLE still costs £2-3 million per single track km.
Traction batteries cost around £100,000 per MWh.

 

[Kite159]

Just wire it up in full, then they can use proper EMUs rather than stock converted to run on batteries, which in 5+ years later ends up costing more money when the batteries need replacing.

Battery technology in the UK is only good enough for low speed branch lines.

 

[HSTEd]

Just wire it up in full, then they can use proper EMUs rather than stock converted to run on batteries, which in 5+ years later ends up costing more money when the batteries need replacing.

We are the point where you can get two train carriages (~2x£2m) for the price of a single track kilometre of electrification (~£4m on some recent projects).

You could buy a lot of replacement trains (let alone batteries!) for that much money.

 

[Kite159]

We are the point where you can get two train carriages (~2x£2m) for the price of a single track kilometre of electrification (~£4m on some recent projects).

You could buy a lot of replacement trains (let alone batteries!) for that much money.

Until the price of those trains suddenly increases when the manufacturers smell higher demand.

 

[HSTEd]

Until the price of those trains suddenly increases when the manufacturers smell higher demand.

Unless you suggest Hitachi, Siemens, Alstom, Nippon Sharyu, CRRC, Stadler and a bunch of other companies I can't even name are all conspiring together.... that seems infeasible.

 

[Elecman]

We are the point where you can get two train carriages (~2x£2m) for the price of a single track kilometre of electrification (~£4m on some recent projects).

You could buy a lot of replacement trains (let alone batteries!) for that much money.

Except on EWR most of the expensive Civils rebuilding has aleadt men done, the location of all the signalling cables are known so would be a perfect trial for a factory train now at cost much less that the figures your quoting which have lots of civils work involved

OHLE still costs £2-3 million per single track km.
Traction batteries cost around £100,000 per MWh.

Except on EWR most of the expensive Civils rebuilding has aleadt men done, the location of all the signalling cables are known so would be a perfect trial for a factory train now at cost much less that the figures your quoting which have lots of civils work involved

 

[Elecman]

Electrification currently costs £2-3 million per single track kilometre.
Compared to those prices, the cost of batteries is minor.

Except on EWR most of the expensive Civils rebuilding has already been done, the location of all the signalling cables are known so would be a perfect trial for a factory train now at cost much less that the figures your quoting which have lots of civils work involved

 

[John R]

Except on EWR most of the expensive Civils rebuilding has already been done, the location of all the signalling cables are known so would be a perfect trial for a factory train now at cost much less that the figures your quoting which have lots of civils work involved

And of course from Bedford to Cambridge will be completely new, so the cost should be much lower.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

It would make more sense to electrify as much as possible and just use permanently earthed wire runs under those bridge s not rebuilt during the EWR reconstruction works, then as more cash becomes available to rebuild those in time and complete Electrification.
There is a AT substation near the EWR at Lambs Sidings near the flyover Southwest of Bletchley station. Ther will also eventually be a 400 kV Grid Supply Point at Clayson for HS2 that could be utilised for EWR.

Did you mean Claydon?

 

[weeklycommuter]

• New stations/upgrades to existing stations

That will be the stupid station merger plan then. I might have to go to the consultation and give them both barrels again!

I'm surprised that's being looked at just for the Bedford bit, as a double track line is perfectly well able to take an hourly fast and an hourly stopper in each direction. It's the full Cambridge service where the stopper starts getting in the way.

Marston Vale Line Station footfalls are on page 107 and service concept 2 with proposed new merged stations at Woburn Sands, Ridgmont, Lidlington and Stewartby on page 118 of the following document from the previous non-statutory consultation in 2021. The single track section through Fenny Stratford Station will clearly have to be double tracked see page 144. I assume if the all stations service is retained as in service concept 1 trains towards Bedford would have to cross to the Bletchley bound track to call at Fenny Stratford Station unless a second platform is added. If the new Eastern entrance to Bletchley Station referred to on page 141 is added would anyone still be interested in keeping Fenny Stratford Station?

https://eastwestrail-production.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/public/EAS060_TechDoc_160421_Master_Digital.pdf

 

[Magdalia]

The budget report also says this about Cambridge in paragraph 4.61:

Unlocking future economic growth through £10 million of funding to enable the Cambridge Growth Company to develop an ambitious plan for the housing, transport, water and wider infrastructure Cambridge needs to realise its full potential and taking the next steps to deliver East West Rail.

The Housing Minister made a written statement to parliament today about the Cambridge Growth Company, including appointment of Peter Freeman as chair.

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-statements/detail/2024-10-31/hcws181

Statement made by​

Matthew Pennycook
Minister of State for Housing and Planning
Labour
Greenwich and Woolwich
Commons

Statement​

I am today updating the House on the next steps the government intends to take, in collaboration with local partners, to support ambitious and high-quality sustainable growth in Cambridge and its environs.

East West Rail is not mentioned specifically, but the statement does say this:

The Growth Company will focus on the following core activities:

• Develop the evidence base to support development of an infrastructure-first growth plan and a long-term delivery vehicle: working with experts to assess infrastructure requirements, including water and transport, and laying the foundations to establish a long-term delivery vehicle.

 

[td97]

I’m not aware that the preferred route for EWR between Tempsford and Cambourne shares much in the way of alignment with the A421 ’extension’ to Caxton.

It practically follows it from Black Cat all the way to Caxton.

The electrification plan seems to suggest there will be no electrically hauled freight.

Freight is paramount to the business case. EWR is looking to support class 99s.

Electrification of Bedford to Tempsford, fed from both the MML and from ECML.

Incorrect, new feeder proposed fed from the electricity site near Little Barford power station.

"At today's Budget, the Chancellor committed to the delivery of East West Rail to Bedford and Cambridge. She said work on the Marston Vale line would be 'accelerated' with East West Rail services by 2030, and that a consultation on next stages would launch in November."

By 2030! Pathetic.

Marston Vale is due for a wholesale line upgrade with station rebuilds and level crossing closures. 2030 is very ambitious when no shovels are in the ground.

 

[swt_passenger]

Hello @yorkie based on what I saw last week - photos at top of this linked page - mast-post bases are sunk eastwards of Winslow (towards Bletchley) but not westwards.

Loco hauled around Havant

A railway reborn. The Varsity Line - from Oxford to Cambridge - is long gone; however, 2025 sees re-opening of the Bicester to Bletchley section. This week, Chiltern and GWR are conducting equipment and gauging tests; with 100mph running in places. Today's paths find a bit of sunshine, too! I...

www.railforums.co.uk

I don’t see any mast bases in your photos. Having followed the project for years now, nobody has ever mentioned mast work at all.

 

[Nottingham59]

I don’t see any mast bases in your photos. Having followed the project for years now, nobody has ever mentioned mast work at all.

I think the square concrete structures might be drainage related. Mast bases are usually steel and cylindrical.

 

[Elecman]

Did you mean Claydon?

Yes stupid autocorrect

Hello @yorkie based on what I saw last week - photos at top of this linked page - mast-post bases are sunk eastwards of Winslow (towards Bletchley) but not westwards.

Loco hauled around Havant

A railway reborn. The Varsity Line - from Oxford to Cambridge - is long gone; however, 2025 sees re-opening of the Bicester to Bletchley section. This week, Chiltern and GWR are conducting equipment and gauging tests; with 100mph running in places. Today's paths find a bit of sunshine, too! I...

www.railforums.co.uk

Those are drainage catch pits not mast bases

 

[brad465]

Electrify all the way from Oxford to Bicester Village: feeds in nicely to Oxford getting electrification at some point, makes electrifying the Chiltern route easier and is arguably the busiest section of the line, so is the most beneficial section to electrify. After that I'd electrify Bletchley to Bedford inclusive also. Ideally the whole thing should be electrified but if these two stretches are done that should cover the rest of the route if good battery tech is deployed, bearing in mind the Cambridge end plus acceleration out of the area is already electrified.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Electrify all the way from Oxford to Bicester Village: feeds in nicely to Oxford getting electrification at some point, makes electrifying the Chiltern route easier and is arguably the busiest section of the line, so is the most beneficial section to electrify. After that I'd electrify Bletchley to Bedford inclusive also. Ideally the whole thing should be electrified but if these two stretches are done that should cover the rest of the route if good battery tech is deployed, bearing in mind the Cambridge end plus acceleration out of the area is already electrified.

Indeed any battery solution needs recharging capability so Oxford end will need something so why not just get on and finish off Didcot to Oxford wiring.

 

[fishwomp]

Marston Vale is due for a wholesale line upgrade with station rebuilds and level crossing closures. 2030 is very ambitious when no shovels are in the ground.

It took under two years to do the same from Oxford to Bicester. The Settle-Carlisle line was built in 7 years over far harder terrain.