East-West Rail in Westminster

[GingerSte]

According to BBC News statement update...

1301: A new rail link between Oxford, Bedford and Milton Keynes will create 12,000 jobs, Mr Osborne adds - one of a long list of projects he outlines

 

[tbtc]

This is the kind of Keynsian investment in infrastructure that we should have had a year or more ago - good news.

 

[kylemore]

Will it actually happen tho!

 

[philjo]

Not yet fully confirmed:
See Page 54:
http://cdn.hm-treasury.gov.uk/autumn_statement.pdf

The Government will support Network Rail to develop a £270 million rail link between Oxford and Bedford. Before July 2012, the Government will announce how it will implement this plan subject to support from local contributions, based on a developed business case.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

2 new Aire Valley stations approved (Apperley Bridge, Kirkstall Forge) in the Local Transport Schemes list.
Also replacement of London Road bridge over the railway at Derby.

RPI+1 confirmed for fares this year.

Wales/Scotland details to come.

 

[4SRKT]

2 new Aire Valley stations approved (Apperley Bridge, Kirkstall Forge) in the Local Transport Schemes list.

Oooh, we don't want any of this! Trains between Shipley and Leeds are wedged as it is in the peak and this will only make it worse. Also, this must be one of the longest suburban runs with no intermediate stops. 10.75 miles in 11 minutes? Yes please! Two intermediate stops? No thanks.

What's more, the road bridge over the river at Kirkstall is a serious traffic bottleneck, and siting a station close to this point will draw even more cars to it. The housing at Apperley Bridge itself is at its closest point a good half mile south of where the railway crosses the Bradford > Harrogate road. All there is up there is a minor private school and some mega posh houses leading up into Rawdon.

What about Low Moor? Traffic in south Bradford is appalling and this could make a difference.

 

[DXMachina]

According to BBC News statement update...

1301: A new rail link between Oxford, Bedford and Milton Keynes will create 12,000 jobs, Mr Osborne adds - one of a long list of projects he outlines

Pretty sure I've ridden that route (Ayles-Bletchley) as a kid before it closed

This would make a new diversionary route for the southern west coast line into Paddington wouldnt it? wonder if they'll electrify...

 

[YorkshireBear]

Oooh, we don't want any of this! Trains between Shipley and Leeds are wedged as it is in the peak and this will only make it worse. Also, this must be one of the longest suburban runs with no intermediate stops. 10.75 miles in 11 minutes? Yes please! Two intermediate stops? No thanks.

What's more, the road bridge over the river at Kirkstall is a serious traffic bottleneck, and siting a station close to this point will draw even more cars to it. The housing at Apperley Bridge itself is at its closest point a good half mile south of where the railway crosses the Bradford > Harrogate road. All there is up there is a minor private school and some mega posh houses leading up into Rawdon.

What about Low Moor? Traffic in south Bradford is appalling and this could make a difference.

The skipton services will call at neither station i dont think. As i too agree that zip to shipley is quite nice

I think ilkley services will call at kirkstall and bradford services call at apperley bridge.

 

[Eagle]

A new rail link between Oxford, Bedford and Milton Keynes will create 12,000 jobs, Mr Osborne adds - one of a long list of projects he outlines.

I'm assuming that includes Aylesbury to Claydon junction too... (would be a waste not to).

 

[stut]

How dare they not come to Biggleswade? I want my direct trains to Cambridge, Bedford, MK and Oxford, and I want them soon! I don't care about houses blocking the track or economic viability, I want my trains!

Poor old Biggleswade. Always the bridesmaid, etc, etc.

 

[RYS]

Good news for the East West rail campaigners, but why is it only going as far as Bedford? Why not fill in the gap between Bedford and Sandy, build a link between the Up ECML and Letchworth and then the East-West link is complete?

 

[Eagle]

Good news for the East West rail campaigners, but why is it only going as far as Bedford? Why not fill in the gap between Bedford and Sandy, build a link between the Up ECML and Letchworth and then the East-West link is complete?

Because that would require rebuilding it from scratch, which would be far more expensive than what they're doing here, which is just reopening the mothballed and overgrown line between Claydon and Bletchley.

 

[Buttsy]

Once Oxford - Bedford is open, then the push can be made to get the link to the ECML on the table. I know that sounds a bit piecemeal, but as it's not about London or another major city, take what we can get and push for the rest as it's progressing.

Also, I hope that the Hitchin flyover will be built to allow for a link northwards for a future extension of this to Cambridge.

 

[Chris125]

http://cdn.hm-treasury.gov.uk/autumn_statement.pdf

Ironic that weeks after Foster suggests a london orbital railway for freight and passengers another one gets funding. For freight, its a great way to relieve the effects of Crossrail east of Reading and provide an alternative to the West London Line - even better if they electrify it, along with the North Downs Line, as a flyover at Redhill could divert Channel Tunnel traffic away from the capital.

Chris

 

[mr_jrt]

Also, I hope that the Hitchin flyover will be built to allow for a link northwards for a future extension of this to Cambridge.

IIRC, nope.

The EWR plans needed to be ready several years ago to be factored into the design work for the Hitchin flyover.....so no.

Reminds me when I read the options study from years ago that I preferred the proposal that was marginally more expensive (~5m, IIRC), but had the grade separation south of the existing junction, meaning northbound services wouldn't have the speed improvements cancelled out by a greater distance.

...but that's because I wanted a link between Hitchin and Luton via Luton Airport, and you could have segregated the branch from the ECML entirely that way.

 

[4SRKT]

The skipton services will call at neither station i dont think. As i too agree that zip to shipley is quite nice

I think ilkley services will call at kirkstall and bradford services call at apperley bridge.

If a half hourly service is all that's envisaged I would just get the Bradfords to do both. There's plenty of free capacity and would help justify them. In the evenings you could have the Ilkleys doing Kirkstall and Skiptons doing Apperley Bridge.

 

[philjo]

The section east of the MML to ECML was always going to be built as a second phase. Mainly because the western section is on existing trackbeds owned by network rail & east of there requires land purchase for a new route. A connection from MML to ECML will require route options to be produced & go through planning permission process/public enquiry etc which could take some time.

My personal preferred route would be a new link from Luton to Stevenage with a station at Luton Airport itself (presumably it would have to be in a tunnel under the airport as it is on a hill) which also gives Thameslink a service directly into the airport. With a triangular junction with MML it also allows some GN route services to run via MML into the Thameslink core to bypass Welwyn (& give new service from Stevenage) etc to St Albans). Connections from East-west services with EC services at Stevenage & MML services at Luton.
New link also needed from Ridgmont to MML southwards near Flitwick.

The services can then use the slow lines from Stevenage & the Hitchin flyover to reach the Cambridge branch.
The Hitchin flyover design (which has now full approval/permissions etc) has no provision for a north-east connection so a route via Sandy woudl need to reverse at Hitchin. Initial site clearance work for installing the access road prior to the flyover construction has now started.
When fully open an hourly limited stop Norwich-Ely-Cambridge-Stevenage-Luton Airport-Luton-Bletchley-Oxford-Swindon-Bath-Bristol service would be useful plus local stoppers (e.g. Cambridge to MK/Northampton).

 

[tbtc]

Good news for the East West rail campaigners, but why is it only going as far as Bedford?

I'd run it to Corby (thus freeing space at St Pancras and valuable Meridians for some "proper" services on the MML

 

[HSTEd]

Are they running all these trains out of Marylebone?

Whats the capacity going to be like if they actually start running trains to all these places?

 

[anthony263]

Are they running all these trains out of Marylebone?

Whats the capacity going to be like if they actually start running trains to all these places?

I suspect the East west servics into Marylebone will just be extensions of existing services that terminate at Aylesbury, High Wycombe etc same to what is happening with Chiltern Railways London Marylebone - Oxford service.

If they do electrify the east-west railink it would be a great help, especially if they electrify the line down to Amersham and south of Harrow on the hill.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'd run it to Corby (thus freeing space at St Pancras and valuable Meridians for some "proper" services on the MML

Or fit those meridian with a pantograph car and give them to FGW for the London - Worcester/Hereford service.

 

[mr_jrt]

...my preferred second stage would be mostly all new build, continuing north through Bedford station, then curving east to meet the ECML at St. Neots, then new build cross-country via Cambourne, joining the old St. Ives route on the outskirts of Cambridge, with the MGB diverted via roads from that point.

 

[HSTEd]

Just thinking you could use the New North Main Line thing and run trains out of the some of the platforms at Paddington which will be freed by Crossrail

 

[Buttsy]

When fully open an hourly limited stop Norwich-Ely-Cambridge-Stevenage-Luton Airport-Luton-Bletchley-Oxford-Swindon-Bath-Bristol service would be useful plus local stoppers (e.g. Cambridge to MK/Northampton).

I understand that the intention for the 'south' end is Reading rather than Bristol as it has a better business case.

Initial service pattern I would suggest is 2tph Oxford-MK with 1tph going semi-fast to Bedford and 1tph Aylesbury-MK. The Bedford service being semi-fast throughout (Oxford-Bicester-(Winslow?)-MK-Blecthley-Woburn Sands-Lidlington-Bedford) and the MK service a stopper (Oxford-Islip-Bicester-Claydon-Winslow-Newton Longville-Blecthley-MK). The Aylesbury service being Aylesbury-Aylesbury Vale Parkway-Quainton Road-Claydon then as per the Oxford stopper. The current Marston Vale service would remain.

Claydon to be re-opened to provide an interchange so that you can get from Oxford/Bicester to Aylesbury & south thereof with one change, timetabling the MK-Aylesbury train to arrive 5 mins after the Oxford-MK stopper & vice-versa.

 

[swt_passenger]

The prospectus shows the 'Preferred Train Service Pattern' as:

1tph from Reading to Oxford and Milton Keynes, stopping at Water Eaton Parkway, Bicester, Winslow and Bletchley. These services could start from Didcot.
Journey Times Oxford to Milton Keynes 40 minutes, Reading to Milton Keynes 84 minutes

1 tph from Reading to Oxford and Bedford, stopping at Water Eaton Parkway, Bicester, Winslow, Bletchley, Woburn Sands and Lidlington. Again these services could start from Didcot.
Journey Times Oxford to Bedford 60 minutes, Reading to Bedford 106 minutes

1 tph from Milton Keynes to London Marylebone as an extension of the existing service to Aylesbury Vale Parkway with stops at Bletchley and Winslow.
Journey Times Milton Keynes to Aylesbury 33 minutes, High Wycombe to Milton Keynes 63 minutes

Bristol to Oxford was tried a while back, it didn't work out. Better to have strong connections at Didcot IMHO especially if EWR only runs to/from there as I've italicised above...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Is Winslow the only station planned to be reopened between Bicester Town / AVP and Bletchley?

 

[swt_passenger]

Is Winslow the only station planned to be reopened between Bicester Town / AVP and Bletchley?

According to earlier reports on the EWR website, that's right. No other stations have a business case, although a few were looked at, so many of the proposed calling patterns in this thread are fairly hypothetical...

 

[Buttsy]

Is Winslow the only station planned to be reopened between Bicester Town / AVP and Bletchley?

No, I believe that Newton Longville has a reasonable business case and MK council are looking for this to go ahead.

Winslow is the only one planned at the moment by E-W rail according to their video, Water Eaton Parkway being a Chiltern innovation.

 

[The Planner]

Water Eaton will be a huge revenue driver in all the services, more so than Oxford itself.

 

[cle]

It will have 4tph to Oxford and Bicester, and then 2tph to High Wycombe/Marylebone and 1tph to Bedford and MK under this - quite good service for a station which doesn't exist yet!

I'm sure stopping patterns will change in time, and other options such as up the MML, or to Northampton, will come into play. From the other way, hopefully Bristol/Bath/Swindon will become viable.

 

[Eagle]

What rolling stock should we expect on this line? New (e.g. 172s) or cascaded? And in what amounts?