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East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

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aylesbury2

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Hi guys,

It was recently reported that the East-West Rail link between Oxford and MK has been delayed by 2 years from 2017 until 2019. Does anyone have any idea why?
 
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YorkshireBear

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Hi guys,

It was recently reported that the East-West Rail link between Oxford and MK has been delayed by 2 years from 2017 until 2019. Does anyone have any idea why?

Because the government were very hasty just as they were with the Electric Spine and over estimated Network Rail resources.

Thats my understanding anyway.
 

Class 170101

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It wouldn't look good either if it was opened with diesel trains then with several weekend closures electrified and then electric trains used.

Additionally where would the diesel trains come from in the interim. Never mind the maintennance issues and crew training issues.

EDIT
From East West Rail Twitter feed
EastWestRail ‏@eastwestrail Mar 31
@flyfour The start date is still to be confirmed but it is in the five-year plan to March 2019.
 
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aylesbury2

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Is it known yet who'll be running the service? Chiltern's franchise will expire exactly 2 years after the link is opened in December 2019 so will it be them or someone else?
 

swt_passenger

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Is it known yet who'll be running the service? Chiltern's franchise will expire exactly 2 years after the link is opened in December 2019 so will it be them or someone else?

The only real certainty is that Chiltern will run the service from Marylebone to Milton Keynes via Aylesbury, because it is known to be an extension of their existing service.
(...subsequently overtaken by events, if anyone reads this again. By 2019 the Marylebone link was out, and the service reduced to just an Aylesbury to MK shuttle.)
Other services could be any of Chiltern, London Midland, or FGW, it has never been confirmed one way or another, although a few years back Chiltern were quoted as not being interested in the other expected routes at all. Given the more recent plans of the EWR consortium that trains will run through to Reading, I think FGW's successor is the most likely.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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Hi guys,
It was recently reported that the East-West Rail link between Oxford and MK has been delayed by 2 years from 2017 until 2019. Does anyone have any idea why?

The date of March 2019 has been known for several months (and doesn't include Bletchley-Bedford electrification).
It is part of the CP5 settlement and not a new "delay".
There's a difference between an aspirational date and the Network Rail detailed plan (which is still not at Grip3 so subject to change).

EDIT: To be picky, the newspaper's "2-year delay" is actually from Dec 2017 to March 2019, or 15 months.
 
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jimm

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It wouldn't look good either if it was opened with diesel trains then with several weekend closures electrified and then electric trains used.

Additionally where would the diesel trains come from in the interim. Never mind the maintennance issues and crew training issues.

The idea was always to start operating with diesel, then electrify. Who said anything about weekend closures? You just bring in the sort of kit now being used on the GWML. One mile of work a night during overnight possessions.

Where would diesels come from? Well there are a lot of Turbos, with a maintenance depot at Reading - a planned destination for East West services - that will be needing something new to do from 2017 and drivers already trained on them based at Reading and Oxford.
 

meridian2

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The whole thing is one massive pipe dream; the state of the track, the amount of track missing in certain areas. It's going to cost more than HS2 and that's more likely to be delivered to be honest.

So utterly fed up of this whole EWRL scheme and it's 'smoke and mirrors', constantly leaving local councils in a state of flux as to what will happen to the Claydon line.
 

YorkshireBear

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The whole thing is one massive pipe dream; the state of the track, the amount of track missing in certain areas. It's going to cost more than HS2 and that's more likely to be delivered to be honest.

Why exactly is it a pipe dream. Definition :an unattainable or fanciful hope or scheme.

Well its in the HLOS and more importantly CP5 commitment for completion before 2020.
 

alastair

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The whole thing is one massive pipe dream; the state of the track, the amount of track missing in certain areas. It's going to cost more than HS2 and that's more likely to be delivered to be honest.

So utterly fed up of this whole EWRL scheme and it's 'smoke and mirrors', constantly leaving local councils in a state of flux as to what will happen to the Claydon line.

Going to cost more than HS2?? What on earth are you on about?

Also,surely the state of the track,and the missing bits is irrelevant as it was always going to be a total rebuild job. It looks like a simple project compared with the Borders line(Edinburgh/Tweedbank) reopening which is currently being done without any major issues.
 

meridian2

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Why exactly is it a pipe dream. Definition :an unattainable or fanciful hope or scheme.

Well its in the HLOS and more importantly CP5 commitment for completion before 2020.

All wrapped up in layers of bureaucracy; it's in the HLOS, promised for 2017, yet we're now given a new date.

It has the trademarks of a DFT car-crash to me. We've been here before and all we get is a measly compromise of a daftly named new station and a run-round loop at Newton Longville.

Sorry to be so confrontational but I really want this to happen, but it's been stuck in bureaucratic limbo since the last train ran back in 1993.
 

YorkshireBear

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Going to cost more than HS2?? What on earth are you on about?

Also,surely the state of the track,and the missing bits is irrelevant as it was always going to be a total rebuild job. It looks like a simple project compared with the Borders line(Edinburgh/Tweedbank) reopening which is currently being done without any major issues.

Some people just love to moan.
 

The Planner

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It has the trademarks of a DFT car-crash to me. We've been here before and all we get is a measly compromise of a daftly named new station and a run-round loop at Newton Longville.

What is it you are expecting? 125mph, 3 minute headways and multiple 775m loops? if so what on earth for?
 

The Planner

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"all we get is a measly compromise of a daftly named new station and a run-round loop at Newton Longville"
 

meridian2

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In other words, what you're saying is complete b*llocks. It's progressing as fast as all other reopenings and large projects do. I really don't get your issue.

What were you expecting for it?

Well, I've seen similar projects like this one to re-open the line west of Bletchley come and go in the past and nobody in the catchment area it serves (villages such as Winslow etc) have any reason to believe this 'electric spine' is nothing more than a figment of an over-burdened NR's imagination.

It's a case of 'believe it when I'll see it', but unless you're somehow in a position more informed than me I don't understand how you can convincingly state my opinion is 'b*llocks'.
 
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YorkshireBear

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It's not b*llocks if all you're prepared to do is shoot me down with a mere soundbite; I've seen similar projects like this one to re-open the line west of Bletchley come and go in the past and nobody in the catchment area it serves (villages such as Winslow etc) have any reason to believe this 'electric spine' is nothing more than a figment of an over-burdened NR's imagination.

I have it on good experience; you have it on smarmy comebacks. Try again.

You really woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning didn't you?

Have any of these projects that have come and gone ever been FULLY COMMITTED TO by Network Rail? Ever? Answer No because i have asked and searched. It is not a figment of NR's imagination it is a government scheme that they are currently developing. The electric spine is not a scheme in itself it is the joining up of several schemes to form a concept. Quite rightfully parts of the scheme are CP5 and the more complicated parts are now CP6.

Seriously remove that chip from your shoulder, the world is a lot better when you do. Just because things happened in the past does not mean they will be repeated.
 

TheKnightWho

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It's not b*llocks if all you're prepared to do is shoot me down with a mere soundbite; I've seen similar projects like this one to re-open the line west of Bletchley come and go in the past and nobody in the catchment area it serves (villages such as Winslow etc) have any reason to believe this 'electric spine' is nothing more than a figment of an over-burdened NR's imagination.

I have it on good experience; you have it on smarmy comebacks. Try again.

Really? So what other similar projects have got as far as this one? This is not just some aspiration with no fixed deadline.

And yes, criticise me all you like for being "smarmy", but the point is that you're being pessimistic for the sake of complaining, whereas the rest of us actually base our views on what we can see is the case. You're the only one make projections here.
 

meridian2

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Well the same rebuttal to TheKnightWho; unless you're in a position more informed than me you can't opine condescendingly and then expect me to 'remove the chip off my shoulder'.
Is that 'government scheme' some sort of secret message that means it's tantamount to a guarantee?
 

The Planner

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Considering the amount of people I deal with within NR that are involved with phase 1 and 2 I would pretty much expect spades in the ground on this one.
 

snowball

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nobody in the catchment area it serves (villages such as Winslow etc) have any reason to believe this 'electric spine' is nothing more than a figment of an over-burdened NR's imagination.

I don't think the electric spine was invented by NR. My impression is it was invented by the DfT and took NR by surprise.
 

YorkshireBear

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I don't think the electric spine was invented by NR. My impression is it was invented by the DfT and took NR by surprise.

NR were developing the scheme for CP6 but it was barely off the ground when the DfT went, that looks like a clever scheme lets do it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Considering the amount of people I deal with within NR that are involved with phase 1 and 2 I would pretty much expect spades in the ground on this one.

I doubt he will pay attention to that. The fact that NR have committed to it and started the design is not good enough apparently...
 

YorkshireBear

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And you believe them?

More fool you mate. :lol:

I think you have completely misunderstood how the current network is operated. East West Rail is now a funded commitment for the Control Period we are currently in. That means it has to happen essentially. Network Rail are basing their electrification programme and long term future network planning on the route being open investing significant amounts of staff and resources into the project as we speak.

The project has already begun i don't understand what your problem is? Did the head of the scheme sleep with your wife/husband? Do you want the project to fail?
 

meridian2

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Which part of East West Rail 'has to happen'? The western bit (despite misgivings from local councils). The central bit? (barely nothing left of the original alignment save for a cycle path), or the eastern bit?
 
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