East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

[jimm]

Lets put it this way, the internet is world wide. We DO see progress in other countries at a much faster rate than we see in the UK. We do see technological leaps of machinery that can put a bridge in place in 24 hours. We see trains that can self replace railway on the fly. Yet we don't see it in the UK. Another thing that baffles me is why all the aforementioned measures cannot be tackled at the same time. Why can't 2 or 3 level crossings be fixed now? Why can't some of the mothballed section be relaid now?

So we are now reduced to the usual nonsense about how foreigners can do everything at warp speed and we can't.

Network Rail and their contractors replaced a bridge about half-a-mile from where I am currently sitting - in the middle of England - in the space of one Sunday in 2016. Tracklaying techniques in this country have also advanced a bit beyond hefty blokes lugging around timber sleepers and bullhead rails.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

The crossrail thread is another example where we have very little technical information of the progress and challenges but plenty of discussion around former executives bonuses and the politics of the various organisations involved. Presumably those in the know have given up trying to explain to us.

That's a unique interpretation of the Crossrail saga. The orthodox assessment is that "those in the know" kept insisting until the last possible moment that everything was fine, on schedule and on budget. Now, since the cat has escaped from the bag, it has been impossible to learn exactly what went wrong because "those in the know" refuse to give straight answers to legitimate questions.

 

[richieb1971]

A forum has to be for everyone though. This isn't an exclusive golf club where only the privileged are allowed to enter. I didn't even say anything bad. It's the manner in which certain individuals go on a mission to make certain folk feel unwelcome. It happened to me and I'm seeing it happen to others.

Instead of putting people down, you can either ignore the content and move on, nobody is forcing anyone to respond. Or you can actively help people learn more.

I only came to the defense of nuneatenmark because to be frank a lot of you are acting like moderators and prefects. I can see it now all the nonsense only what you say is valid and all that rhetoric.

If you were excited about ewr 5 years ago and could legitimately make use of it today with benefits, I could understand someone saying "lets get on with it". If you read my post earlier you would see I was agreeing that patience will reward. The railway should eventually arrive and it has to be done in the manner it is done.

If you want technical details join the club. To be fair ewr are vague and only give you scraps at a time. If they had interviews and moved at a faster pace in the communications world there would be a more positive buzz around here whic I am all for.

 

[DarloRich]

Instead of putting people down, you can either ignore the content and move on, nobody is forcing anyone to respond. Or you can actively help people learn more.

The simple fact is you and others are not interested in learning. That is the problem. If your posts ( and those of other equally poorly informed people) go unchallenged they produce a narrative that is wholly inaccurate and often factually wrong.

 

[richieb1971]

I see things from your perspective, but I also ask questions. If you use why, when, how etc, your not stating fact your asking a question.

The fact is railway building is a slow process for most. I'm not saying ewr or mml or crossrail is slow, I'm comparing it to what people compare it to in other forms of construction. If ewrs next announcement is another scope change and it gets negative I would expect darlorich to defend the scope change. But don't expect everyone else too. I hope Boris is ewr friendly in this respect and we have another GE coming up. It's a bit scary for pro EWR supporters right now.

 

[The Planner]

That's a unique interpretation of the Crossrail saga. The orthodox assessment is that "those in the know" kept insisting until the last possible moment that everything was fine, on schedule and on budget. Now, since the cat has escaped from the bag, it has been impossible to learn exactly what went wrong because "those in the know" refuse to give straight answers to legitimate questions.

I have posted on this elsewhere recently on this (might even be this thread), this is a behavioural thing. People are frankly too scared or not empowered to state the reality due to them fearing that their CV or LinkedIn profile will need updating, realism is not seen as a positive trait so people bumble on until things crack or they get out before it does.

 

[duffield]

I appreciate and respect the engineering perspective on why things take time when they are finally financed and approved.

The real issue with infrastructure projects to me seems to be mostly at a government level - projects talked about for years (as if they are highly likely), hopes raised, dashed, finance available then cancelled, re-scoped, reinstated, delayed again...

I think there's a intrinsic dis-function in our political system due to long-term projects extending well beyond the election cycle and a lack of consensus between parties and even successive transport secretaries about what the priorities are.

 

[8H]

I appreciate and respect the engineering perspective on why things take time when they are finally financed and approved.

The real issue with infrastructure projects to me seems to be mostly at a government level - projects talked about for years (as if they are highly likely), hopes raised, dashed, finance available then cancelled, re-scoped, reinstated, delayed again...

I think there's a intrinsic dis-function in our political system due to long-term projects extending well beyond the election cycle and a lack of consensus between parties and even successive transport secretaries about what the priorities are.

Good points, and the indirect causes of much real frustration at lack of visible progress. National infrastructure has to get beyond the stop go in out shake it all about on the admin side which creates a substantive problem.

 

[kevin_roche]

Good points, and the indirect causes of much real frustration at lack of visible progress. National infrastructure has to get beyond the stop go in out shake it all about on the admin side which creates a substantive problem.

Speaking as a complete outsider. I started following these issues when Crossrail failed to get delivered last December. At first everyone was blaming the signalling system and it seemed to me unlikely so I spent some time investigating. It is clear to me now that Crossrail, unlike some other projects, has support from multiple parties so it survived changes of government.

So many other rail and road projects don't happen because one or other party have other priorities. The result is that companies involved have to lay off staff when projects are put on hold and retrain or rehire when the project gets approval and by then the standards are changed and the whole thing needs re-designing. The final result is infrastructure costs way more than it should.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

I have posted on this elsewhere recently on this (might even be this thread), this is a behavioural thing. People are frankly too scared or not empowered to state the reality due to them fearing that their CV or LinkedIn profile will need updating, realism is not seen as a positive trait so people bumble on until things crack or they get out before it does.

That might be an explanation of why so much misleading flannel was peddled for so long, but that does not explain why even the Parliamentary Committee has been unable to extract full and frank revelations from the project leaders, many of whom moved from the project shortly before the balloon burst. The idea posted earlier that these so-called leaders have grown tired of giving explanations is eccentric.

 

[Pshambro]

That might be an explanation of why so much misleading flannel was peddled for so long, but that does not explain why even the Parliamentary Committee has been unable to extract full and frank revelations from the project leaders, many of whom moved from the project shortly before the balloon burst. The idea posted earlier that these so-called leaders have grown tired of giving explanations is eccentric.

To clarify, when I said “people in the know” I meant boots on the ground people of the kind like Clarence Yard, who have real world experience of day to day events on the railway and tirelessly educate us on why things happen as they do, admittedly Clarence is a poor example here as he himself has clearly not grown tired and his posts are very much appreciated. Apologies for not being clearer.

 

[richieb1971]

I assume we have skeptics that EWR is going to suffer the same fate as crossrail? I get that crossrail is an example of a failed delivery but EWR has until 2023 and has a different team.

Or am I supposed to join more dots than that?

 

[hooverboy]

I assume we have skeptics that EWR is going to suffer the same fate as crossrail? I get that crossrail is an example of a failed delivery but EWR has until 2023 and has a different team.

Or am I supposed to join more dots than that?

well if you are talking about double the budget and 3-5 years later than initially touted, then yes. That is what most of us are expecting from EWR.

EWR may well have a different team on the project, but that is not really where the bottleneck is.
The bottleneck is the legalities.
once the relevant bits of paperwork have been approved the process of getting prep teams doing the civils and shovels in the ground is pretty quick(although not terribly well organised as NR have a million projects they do at once ,rather than a rolling "hit squad" doing a smaller number of projects but doing then en masse to get completed faster, before moving onto the next one.

NR really do need to study in detail how high volume production lines work, and adopt some of the working practices.
can't be that difficult getting a pre-fab industry standard bridge developed can it?
so the guys on the track get an IKEA style flat pack kit they rig up.

ok the groundwork needs prepping for different soil types/drainage etc,but the actual construct of the bridge should be 24hrs or so.
and with a dozen teams on a line at once, you could clear pretty much all of marston vale level crossings over an easter bank holiday weekend.

 

[Bald Rick]

well if you are talking about double the budget and 3-5 years later than initially touted, then yes. That is what most of us are expecting from EWR.

EWR may well have a different team on the project, but that is not really where the bottleneck is.
The bottleneck is the legalities.
once the relevant bits of paperwork have been approved the process of getting prep teams doing the civils and shovels in the ground is pretty quick(although not terribly well organised as NR have a million projects they do at once ,rather than a rolling "hit squad" doing a smaller number of projects but doing then en masse to get completed faster, before moving onto the next one.

NR really do need to study in detail how high volume production lines work, and adopt some of the working practices.
can't be that difficult getting a pre-fab industry standard bridge developed can it?
so the guys on the track get an IKEA style flat pack kit they rig up.

ok the groundwork needs prepping for different soil types/drainage etc,but the actual construct of the bridge should be 24hrs or so.
and with a dozen teams on a line at once, you could clear pretty much all of marston vale level crossings over an easter bank holiday weekend.

Good grief.

Why don’t you go and get a job for NR and show them how it’s done?

 

[Elecman]

well if you are talking about double the budget and 3-5 years later than initially touted, then yes. That is what most of us are expecting from EWR.

EWR may well have a different team on the project, but that is not really where the bottleneck is.
The bottleneck is the legalities.
once the relevant bits of paperwork have been approved the process of getting prep teams doing the civils and shovels in the ground is pretty quick(although not terribly well organised as NR have a million projects they do at once ,rather than a rolling "hit squad" doing a smaller number of projects but doing then en masse to get completed faster, before moving onto the next one.

NR really do need to study in detail how high volume production lines work, and adopt some of the working practices.
can't be that difficult getting a pre-fab industry standard bridge developed can it?
so the guys on the track get an IKEA style flat pack kit they rig up.

ok the groundwork needs prepping for different soil types/drainage etc,but the actual construct of the bridge should be 24hrs or so.
and with a dozen teams on a line at once, you could clear pretty much all of marston vale level crossings over an easter bank holiday weekend.

I thought it was the same JV and senior bods who did the Stafford Alliance (Norton Bridge flyover and associated works) so they have good credentials on the delivery side of things

 

[Bald Rick]

I thought it was the same JV and senior bods who did the Stafford Alliance (Norton Bridge flyover and associated works) so they have good credentials on the delivery side of things

It is. And a few Thameslink people as well (including the CEO), plus the Chairman was instrunmental in the Evergreen projects.

They know what they’re doing.

 

[hooverboy]

Good grief.

Why don’t you go and get a job for NR and show them how it’s done?

in my field of work I have set up production lines and development labs from scratch before, I think I said already that I'm telecom networks,but have been in RF/Microwave since i left uni.(in 1992 so 30 years bar the shouting)
I mean everything, test equipment,environmental control,ESD,documentation for working practices and procedures,accreditation to ISO/UKAS standards(also MIL in some scenarios), the lot.

when I say production lines I do mean churning out x amount of base station up/down convertors/amplifiers etc per day with various stages for a techie to do his test bit and pass down the line,all the way down to final test on an automated bench(I have done programming in labview and visual basic for these too)

development labs are frankly easier, but a shedload more expensive!

I'm trying to cut people a bit of slack for this not being my area of expertise.

 

[Bald Rick]

in my field of work I have set up production lines and development labs from scratch before, I think I said already that I'm telecom networks,but have been in RF/Microwave since i left uni.(in 1992 so 30 years bar the shouting)
I mean everything, test equipment,environmental control,ESD,documentation for working practices and procedures,accreditation to ISO/UKAS standards, the lot.

when I say production lines I do mean churning out x amount of base station up/down convertors/amplifiers etc per day with various stages for a techie to do his test bit and pass down the line,all the way down to final test on an automated bench(I have done programming in labview and visual basic for these too)

development labs are frankly easier, but a shedload more expensive!

I'm trying to cut people a bit of slack for this not being my area of expertise.

Well, when GSM-R was rolled out, guess what NR did? Rolled it our production line fashion.

Apologies if this seems a little short, but I don’t go around saying that the telecoms industry needs to up its game and do things more quickly, because I credit those who work in the telecoms industry to be doing all they can to developer and deliver efficient networks. I suggest you take the same approach with those who work on renewing and improving the rail network.

As an aside, do you see motorway bridges being knocked up in 24 hours? Or bridges anywhere on new lines / roads? Perhaps it’s not just NR, but something else...

 

[hooverboy]

Well, when GSM-R was rolled out, guess what NR did? Rolled it our production line fashion.

Apologies if this seems a little short, but I don’t go around saying that the telecoms industry needs to up its game and do things more quickly, because I credit those who work in the telecoms industry to be doing all they can to developer and deliver efficient networks. I suggest you take the same approach with those who work on renewing and improving the rail network.

As an aside, do you see motorway bridges being knocked up in 24 hours? Or bridges anywhere on new lines / roads? Perhaps it’s not just NR, but something else...

the telecoms industry is absolutely miles ahead of rail comms at the moment.

we're certainly victim to a decade long industry cycle, before the new generation of connectivity comes to the fore.
..but GSM-R is absolutely ancient -this is 1990's gear.
I was working on phased array radar back in the mid 2000's, which is now part of the 5G network as Massive MIMO....so commercial gear is still about 15 years behind military.

LTE-R is about 1000x more data capacity- and can still be carried between 700-900MHz, meaning most of the passive equipment does not need changing.Working units already in service in south korea-developed by nokia siemens networks.

once you start getting into the high frequency stuff(2400MHz-6000MHz) that comes with it's own problems.
good data rate but crap range...also not good when throwing metal reinforced high ris buildings,hills or tunnels into the mix.
5G-R is going to be some way off.nokia have got the handover rate for LTE-R at 450-500km/h now which is sufficient for rail.

 

[edwin_m]

NR really do need to study in detail how high volume production lines work, and adopt some of the working practices.
can't be that difficult getting a pre-fab industry standard bridge developed can it?
so the guys on the track get an IKEA style flat pack kit they rig up.

NR does have standard/modular designs for both footbridges and bridge decks carrying rails. For example the footbridges put in to replace footpath crossings between Birmingham and Sheffield under the XC line speed upgrades a few years back were all to a common design, adapted to suit the site layout and whether ramps were needed. Rail Engineer magazine (most articles online at railengineer.uk) often mentions use of these standard design in their frequent stories about bridge replacements.

Something like a mobile phone mast can be erected in a construction site environment, when ready it only needs cables connecting up to activate it, and if it takes a bit longer than planned then nobody is much inconvenienced. Most rail bridge works are on a live railway. Decks carrying rails have to have the rails disconnected, deck removed, any work needed to the abutments, new deck put in place and rails connected back up within a single possession - along with safety-vital signalling cables which have rigorous testing requirements attached. Any overrun means the trains don't run as planned, so a big chunk of contingency time is built in which means cost inefficiency. However the western part of EWR has the advantage that most of this can be done in a construction site environment before the railway goes live.

 

[KeithP]

Hooverboy, what have your most recent two posts to do with the railway?

More particularly, what have they to do with East-West Rail?

 

[jimm]

A forum has to be for everyone though. This isn't an exclusive golf club where only the privileged are allowed to enter. I didn't even say anything bad. It's the manner in which certain individuals go on a mission to make certain folk feel unwelcome. It happened to me and I'm seeing it happen to others.

Instead of putting people down, you can either ignore the content and move on, nobody is forcing anyone to respond. Or you can actively help people learn more.

I only came to the defense of nuneatenmark because to be frank a lot of you are acting like moderators and prefects. I can see it now all the nonsense only what you say is valid and all that rhetoric.

If you were excited about ewr 5 years ago and could legitimately make use of it today with benefits, I could understand someone saying "lets get on with it". If you read my post earlier you would see I was agreeing that patience will reward. The railway should eventually arrive and it has to be done in the manner it is done.

If you want technical details join the club. To be fair ewr are vague and only give you scraps at a time. If they had interviews and moved at a faster pace in the communications world there would be a more positive buzz around here whic I am all for.

If all this is meant to be a reference to my use of the word nonsense - hard to tell as you don't quote any other post - I used that word because what you posted about Network Rail's supposed inability to rebuild bridges in 24 hours and replace track at a rate of knots - unlike overseas railways, where naturally everything is just fabulous all the time... - was indeed nonsense. That was all.

I had indeed read your previous post and understood what you were saying there - but that doesn't excuse posting, yes, nonsense, about the capabilities of rail engineers in the UK.

Rebuilding the line from Bicester to Bletchley (and updating the flyover) is not a five-minute job, which you recognise. But if others do not recognise that and post things along the lines of 'just get on with it', as is the nature of a forum, others may choose to point out the flaws in that position.

I see things from your perspective, but I also ask questions. If you use why, when, how etc, your not stating fact your asking a question.

The fact is railway building is a slow process for most. I'm not saying ewr or mml or crossrail is slow, I'm comparing it to what people compare it to in other forms of construction. If ewrs next announcement is another scope change and it gets negative I would expect darlorich to defend the scope change. But don't expect everyone else too. I hope Boris is ewr friendly in this respect and we have another GE coming up. It's a bit scary for pro EWR supporters right now.

Here's what people in Gloucestershire compare things to when it comes to a lack of progress on construction/transport projects

For more than 20 years, Gloucestershire and surrounding counties have been looking for a solution to the ‘Missing Link’ on the A417. The 5km stretch of road, near Nettleton Bottom, is the only single carriageway along the strategic 50km route between the M4 and M5.

https://a417missinglink.co.uk

Highways England announced last month that it would finally make a start on construction of its preferred option to improve the road in the autumn of, er, 2021, which will be finished in 2024.

I could get all huffy about that timescale but anyone who knows the area understands that it is an extremely difficult location to work in, as it is perched on the edge of the Cotswold ridge, and they have to keep two busy A-roads open through the middle of the site during the work.

While all this has been going on, the railway industry has managed to redouble long sections of the Cotswold Line and Swindon-Kemble through Gloucestershire in much shorter timespans. Both were cases where a lot of remedial work was needed on the formation, embankments, cuttings and bridges (and a tunnel) to accommodate double track again, despite both being fully operational railway lines - as opposed to one that has been deteriorating since 1992.

Just because a government minister 'announces' something doesn't mean it is going to happen any time soon. No one will be booking tickets on an HS3 line across the North of England any time soon, to take a currently topical example.

 

[richieb1971]

If all this is meant to be a reference to my use of the word nonsense - hard to tell as you don't quote any other post -

I deleted the rest of the quote, but I did read it.

Well Jimm, all I wrote was in context to what nuneatonmark quoted. I stepped in because when a someone new jumps into a thread (probably an old thread), probably never posted before in some cases, they quote some frustration and then get bullied on these forums by certain members, or at least told to take a run and jump or made fun of. I would like that to stop please.

In regards to the matter at hand in context of the actual details, it goes something like this for most.

A list of needed upgrades, remedial and new builds are proposed for a railway
But years pass without any of it starting. And lets concentrate on the word "Starting".


The Marston Vale line has a lot of level crossings. Bow Brickhill is quite far west up the line and it poses little obstacles to get done. Its an easy win. Why would something like that not be done already. Forget about infrastructure development times. Its something that could be fixed now. It would give more credence to the idea that things are moving, progress is being made and minds are more or less put to rest.

I am aware that the flyover at Bletchley is getting somewhat of an overhaul and that surveys are being carried out on bridges that haven't been used for a long time. But does it really take this long? Why isn't this on the EWR website?

Secondly, who does the public facing updates on telling newspapers, updating websites (last update 14th March on news), telling TV stations what is going on, and who is accountable, I suspect its the EWR lead? It is very strange to me that all railway projects seem to be in some kind of bubble when it comes to information. You need to be in the loop. The EWR website is useless, its so vague, it hasn't been updated and progress cannot be seen.

Even Network rail put videos on youtube. But none of them are regarding EWR in any shape or form.

Without a running commentary, facts and figures can easily be hidden. There needs to be accountability. Even this thread could be used by someone on the board. It wouldn't take 15 minutes of their time. But no, its secret.

And if nuneatonmark is frustrated, so am I. And we are not the only ones.

Personally I'd like to chat here about updates on the website. If of course it was updated on a bi weekly basis or something like that.

Most of this is paid for by tax payers or at least I'm led to believe.

 

[DarloRich]

Well Jimm, all I wrote was in context to what nuneatonmark quoted. I stepped in because when a someone new jumps into a thread (probably an old thread), probably never posted before in some cases, they quote some frustration and then get bullied on these forums by certain members, or at least told to take a run and jump or made fun of. I would like that to stop please.

no - tedious wibble gets called out for what it is.

The Marston Vale line has a lot of level crossings. Bow Brickhill is quite far west up the line and it poses little obstacles to get done. Its an easy win. Why would something like that not be done already. Forget about infrastructure development times. Its something that could be fixed now. It would give more credence to the idea that things are moving, progress is being made and minds are more or less put to rest.

how are you going to fix this "easy crossing"? What you are suggesting is to ask for funding to sort out a crossing BEFORE the E-W preliminary work has been completed meaning your investment in this crossing might be wasted. What you are actually saying is that you don't believe any work has taken place until you see diggers and therefore you would happily waste money just to satisfy people who have little understand of how a project works. If that happened and the crossing had to be rebuilt I suspect you would be first to moan about incompetent, wasteful, corrupt NR chucking money away in those circumstances..............

Secondly, who does the public facing updates on telling newspapers, updating websites (last update 14th March on news), telling TV stations what is going on, and who is accountable, I suspect its the EWR lead? It is very strange to me that all railway projects seem to be in some kind of bubble when it comes to information. You need to be in the loop. The EWR website is useless, its so vague, it hasn't been updated and progress cannot be seen.

Why not write them a mature, well composed letter and ask them or suggest a better way of doing things? I maintain your problem is that you don't think work is being done.

BTW What do you think people should be "accountable" for at this stage? I suspect your view is that people should be sacked on a regular basis if the project progress does not meet your own timescale, composed without any understand of the project or reference to the plan.

Personally I'd like to chat here about updates on the website. If of course it was updated on a bi weekly basis or something like that.

but you wont be interested in the boring, detail based, preparation work that is actually going on now. You don't want to know about sponsors and stakeholders and specifications and environmental assessments, phase plans, consultations, benefit evaluation, funding, recruitment or any of the 1000's of things you have to do to deliver a project of this size. You want diggers.

You hear about a project and move immediately from step one, of say a 50 step process, to step 48 in your mind. you then get frustrated because reality is somewhat different form your fantasy world. You don't care about any of this or care to understand why they are important and you certainly do not acknowledge the funding or political challenges that are often the reasons for elongated timescales . Instead you think that because things are not progressing as fast as you think they should you assign incompetence or corruption to what is just decent and sensible early project life-cycle work.

And if nuneatonmark is frustrated, so am I. And we are not the only ones.

You and others are frustrated because you have unrealistic expectations, a lack of knowledge and don't seem to have the capacity to re calibrate your view when provided with information. You think that it is simply a case of looking at a map, drawing a crayon line, issuing a press release and shouting make it so! It is simply not mature thinking.

Just because a government minister 'announces' something doesn't mean it is going to happen any time soon. No one will be booking tickets on an HS3 line across the North of England any time soon, to take a currently topical example.

exactly - that is what i think is the big issue with many posters: unrealistic expectations based on politically motivated announcements ( that actually lack any substance other than getting the announcer into the paper or actually confirmed and secured funding) and a lack of understanding of the real world.

 

[richieb1971]

I have taken a step to see if the development steps can be centralised into the ewr website. As the flyover work is not in there. If the updates are not centralised you may need to know what keywords to type in to find anything relevant.

Perhaps any progress in this area can help folks find out what is going on. A monthly update should suffice. If nothing is going on a NTR can be entered.

 

[grove]

Reading has always been a part of the core scheme - and I don't think that running to Northampton is particularly left-field. Seems obvious to me, especially for a large town with an invisible profile, and poor non-London (and Cov/Brum) connections.

Talk of Bristol I think is for way into the future, but is definitely of interest. I'd suggest that until that point, calls at Didcot would be worthwhile for connections west - especially on a service which is regional in nature and stops at the likes of Winslow.

These discussions of the extended potential of E-W once it is up and running, even if only in part, is comparable to the slowness to capitalise on opening the Thameslink route from 1988 onwards. We need to move much faster on these ideas as they add significant capacity, without massive investment.

 

[Metrailway]

Northampton is a no-brainer in my opinion. There is a reason why the A43 is one of the busiest roads in the country. An Oxford - Northampton through service would take under an hour so would be well patronised.

 

[richieb1971]

Northampton was mentioned a few years ago in this thread. The usual suspects stated it was a nonsensical idea, too costly and the only patronage you would get is what currently rides in the Bedford-Northampton bus. Not only that but you would need more paths for an extra 15-20 miles of track and it would be doubling up on class 350 services from Euston for that length of track.

I am actually shocked that the A428 between Bedford and Cambridge got the nod for dual carriageway but the section between Bedford and Northampton did not. I currently do the Northampton commute 4 out of 8 days and its a killer. Especially with 2 temporary lights, the Bromham road bridge out for a year and the M1 having road works from J13 to J15a.

 

[DarloRich]

Christ on a bike. E-W to Northampton. Again. It is tiresome. it will be that crackpot Northampton circle and a curve from the Marston Vale line next. ARGH!

Can we just build the thing before the spottery crayoning desire to run services from everywhere to everywhere else via somewhere else kicks in?

 

[richieb1971]

I'm on board with getting it built. But we haven't addressed the issue of regurgitating old conversations because newcomers will find this thread in google, join up and start promoting what they think are new ideas.

And you Darlorich, are the door man. I hope you see the funny side.