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East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

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Bald Rick

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Why is it weird? Yes Chiltern led on the section between Bicester and Oxford but there was sufficient foresight in that the works for East West Rail, double tracking and sensibly including certain provisions for future electrification were included. It was delivered on time and on budget, showing the advantages of what can done when you don’t have to work around the constraints of a live railway.

The decision to do that work was taken nearly a decade ago. It’s been open 5 years. It would have been an extraordinary waste of taxpayers money to electrify a route that would not see electric trains for almost a decade, particularly when the decision to proceed with the next part of the route hadn’t been made. (Indeed it still hasn’t!). It would all have needed maintaining (at cost), some of it would have needed replacing, and most of it save structures themselves would have had around 20% or more of their asset life doing nothing.


For some intermodals (i.e. going further north) I can see it being more popular than Wolvercote - Leamington (- Coventry - Nuneaton) as it is effectively grade separated at the WCML connections. Southbound advantage slightly more useful than Northbound.
And the best route for So'ton - Daventry as no inner GWML or WCML running.

Capacity Bletchley - Daventry might be an issue at certain times of day. @The Planner would know better than I do.
 
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Tobbes

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The decision to do that work was taken nearly a decade ago. It’s been open 5 years. It would have been an extraordinary waste of taxpayers money to electrify a route that would not see electric trains for almost a decade, particularly when the decision to proceed with the next part of the route hadn’t been made. (Indeed it still hasn’t!). It would all have needed maintaining (at cost), some of it would have needed replacing, and most of it save structures themselves would have had around 20% or more of their asset life doing nothing.
This is quite sensible, but this doesn't apply for Cambridge to Bedford, and though I get that the boat has sailed for electrification of Bedford-Oxford as part of this phase (yet another Grayling triumph). Hoewever, I would want to make sure that all of the works on this phase are W10/12 RA10 cleared and fully electrification ready so that the catenery can be up to allow all electric working from Cambridge to Oxford from day one. Is this the case?
 

Bald Rick

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This is quite sensible, but this doesn't apply for Cambridge to Bedford, and though I get that the boat has sailed for electrification of Bedford-Oxford as part of this phase (yet another Grayling triumph). Hoewever, I would want to make sure that all of the works on this phase are W10/12 RA10 cleared and fully electrification ready so that the catenery can be up to allow all electric working from Cambridge to Oxford from day one. Is this the case?

All new railways are built to at least W12 gauge with electrification clearances, and RA10 is standard.
 

Andyjs247

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This is quite sensible, but this doesn't apply for Cambridge to Bedford, and though I get that the boat has sailed for electrification of Bedford-Oxford as part of this phase (yet another Grayling triumph). Hoewever, I would want to make sure that all of the works on this phase are W10/12 RA10 cleared and fully electrification ready so that the catenery can be up to allow all electric working from Cambridge to Oxford from day one. Is this the case?
No. Certain structures that required modifications for electrification are not now being modified.
 

Tobbes

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No. Certain structures that required modifications for electrification are not now being modified.
All new railways are built to at least W12 gauge with electrification clearances, and RA10 is standard.

So which is it? When the non-electrified line is complete from Oxford-Bedford, is it ready for electrification or not? (I get that the Bedford-Cambridge section will be - and should be electrified from the start in any event.)
 

davetheguard

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particularly when the decision to proceed with the next part of the route hadn’t been made. (Indeed it still hasn’t!).

I'm a bit confused now. Bletchley viaduct is being rebuilt for East West Rail; there's photos on here of trackbed being cleared. If the decision to proceed hasn't yet been made (& if not why not!?) how are these things able to happen?
 

gallafent

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I'm a bit confused now. Bletchley viaduct is being rebuilt for East West Rail; there's photos on here of trackbed being cleared. If the decision to proceed hasn't yet been made (& if not why not!?) how are these things able to happen?
I think the previous poster was referring to the decision to proceed with electrification rather than the reopening.
 

a good off

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As the planner states, having a diversionary route north of Oxford for when things go wrong on the Cherwell Valley will be a massive help. We just need to make sure that everything is route cleared and that the train crews learn it!
 

The Planner

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As the planner states, having a diversionary route north of Oxford for when things go wrong on the Cherwell Valley will be a massive help. We just need to make sure that everything is route cleared and that the train crews learn it!
Not convinced XC will learn it, but stranger things have happened.
 

Class 170101

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As the planner states, having a diversionary route north of Oxford for when things go wrong on the Cherwell Valley will be a massive help. We just need to make sure that everything is route cleared and that the train crews learn it!

Not convinced XC will learn it, but stranger things have happened.

Sadly I'm not either, though they should. You would think XC would know Bristol to Didcot for when Cheltenham is blocked but they don't. They just bus Gloucester to New Street.
 

Ianno87

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Sadly I'm not either, though they should. You would think XC would know Bristol to Didcot for when Cheltenham is blocked but they don't. They just bus Gloucester to New Street.

For a planned block, I doubt there's enough paths through Banbury for that.
 

Bald Rick

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I'm a bit confused now. Bletchley viaduct is being rebuilt for East West Rail; there's photos on here of trackbed being cleared. If the decision to proceed hasn't yet been made (& if not why not!?) how are these things able to happen?

I think the previous poster was referring to the decision to proceed with electrification rather than the reopening.

Nope I meant a decision to proceed with the main works for Bicester - Bletchley.

Bletchley Viaduct is, AIUI, part of the enabling works package, along with devegetation, site clearance etc. Similar to how lots of enabling work was done for HS2 before that got the formal go ahead.

But I haven’t seen the formal announcement saying “EWR is Go”, with the formal notice to proceed. Government would surely make a big story out of that, as would all the contractors who would be delighted to announce their new contracts. I may have missed it, in which case I apologise in advance for barking up the wrong tree.

This isn't to say it won’t happen, but I don’t think chickens can be counted just yet.
 

Doctor Fegg

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MK to Buckingham is more annoying by bike, there's no sensible route that avoids one or other of the 421/422. As I have a friend who lives there, this is more than a bit annoying.

cycle.travel suggests going via Deanshanger and Wicken, which is only an extra mile over the A422 and certainly less lethal:

 

Bletchleyite

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cycle.travel suggests going via Deanshanger and Wicken, which is only an extra mile over the A422 and certainly less lethal:


From CMK that probably makes sense, but sadly I live just off the 421 so it would be a huge diversion for me.

What would be of very considerable benefit would be a separate cycle path and pavement alongside at least the section of the A421 between the junction for Thornborough and the roundabout at the edge of Buckingham, which is only about a 3km stretch. For the rest of it there is a reasonable diversion route onto smaller roads.
 

ashkeba

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What would be of very considerable benefit would be a separate cycle path and pavement alongside at least the section of the A421 between the junction for Thornborough and the roundabout at the edge of Buckingham, which is only about a 3km stretch. For the rest of it there is a reasonable diversion route onto smaller roads.
Would 2.5km to the Bourton turn deliver most of the benefit? It does seem astonishing that such a small link is missing and would encourage journeys by removing a 3km longer detour. I guess EWR won't fund it because it looks like a bare bones DMUs service on this bit. Will the Ox Cam expressway fund it or is that project dead now and not only "paused" as announced?
 

ABB125

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Would 2.5km to the Bourton turn deliver most of the benefit? It does seem astonishing that such a small link is missing and would encourage journeys by removing a 3km longer detour. I guess EWR won't fund it because it looks like a bare bones DMUs service on this bit. Will the Ox Cam expressway fund it or is that project dead now and not only "paused" as announced?
The Expressway project certainly appears to be dead as a wholly new-build scheme. However I believe upgrades based mainly on the existing roads on the area are being investigated, but what the outcome will be I don't know.
 

davetheguard

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Nope I meant a decision to proceed with the main works for Bicester - Bletchley.

Bletchley Viaduct is, AIUI, part of the enabling works package, along with devegetation, site clearance etc. Similar to how lots of enabling work was done for HS2 before that got the formal go ahead.

But I haven’t seen the formal announcement saying “EWR is Go”, with the formal notice to proceed. Government would surely make a big story out of that, as would all the contractors who would be delighted to announce their new contracts. I may have missed it, in which case I apologise in advance for barking up the wrong tree.

This isn't to say it won’t happen, but I don’t think chickens can be counted just yet.

Thanks a lot for the clarification Bald Rick. That all makes a lot of sense, but I do wish the Government/DfT would get on with it and make the decision. Not to proceed at this stage, would make their whole claim about getting on with infrastructure look like a bit of a con. Or is it just to be roads, roads, roads (plus HS2).
 

edwin_m

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Thanks a lot for the clarification Bald Rick. That all makes a lot of sense, but I do wish the Government/DfT would get on with it and make the decision. Not to proceed at this stage, would make their whole claim about getting on with infrastructure look like a bit of a con. Or is it just to be roads, roads, roads (plus HS2).
They would also look pretty stupid if they re-build the flyover at great disruption and expense, only to cancel the scheme that would make use of it. Rather like a repeat of what happened when it was originally built.
 

Bald Rick

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Thanks a lot for the clarification Bald Rick. That all makes a lot of sense, but I do wish the Government/DfT would get on with it and make the decision. Not to proceed at this stage, would make their whole claim about getting on with infrastructure look like a bit of a con. Or is it just to be roads, roads, roads (plus HS2).
Excluding HS2 and EWR, there is still nearly £10bn being spent o enhancements to the English rail network in the current 5 year control period. This compares to £14bn being spent on the English Highways Network in roughly the same period. If you include HS2, EWR and Crossrail, Rail wins by a mile. Given there are a lot more roads, and a lot more people who use them, I’d say Rail is getting a pretty good deal.
 

davetheguard

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Excluding HS2 and EWR, there is still nearly £10bn being spent o enhancements to the English rail network in the current 5 year control period. This compares to £14bn being spent on the English Highways Network in roughly the same period. If you include HS2, EWR and Crossrail, Rail wins by a mile. Given there are a lot more roads, and a lot more people who use them, I’d say Rail is getting a pretty good deal.

Nearly £10bn? That is a lot on enhancements, but what are they? Crossrail aside -which I assume isn't included in that figure- I can't think of much: Corby electrification (but nothing else announced, yet alone a rolling programme); Barking Riverside & Northern Line extension in London (TfL projects that may or may not involve Central Government money); boosting the power supplies on the northern end of the ECML; and Werrington dive under; contributions towards a few new stations.

And now, to get back on topic, having already cut electrification, and freight capacity from East West Rail, they're looking at perhaps cutting out the long-planned route to Aylesbury as well!
 

The Planner

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Nearly £10bn? That is a lot on enhancements, but what are they? Crossrail aside -which I assume isn't included in that figure- I can't think of much: Corby electrification (but nothing else announced, yet alone a rolling programme); Barking Riverside & Northern Line extension in London (TfL projects that may or may not involve Central Government money); boosting the power supplies on the northern end of the ECML; and Werrington dive under; contributions towards a few new stations.

And now, to get back on topic, having already cut electrification, and freight capacity from East West Rail, they're looking at perhaps cutting out the long-planned route to Aylesbury as well!
They haven't really cut freight capacity off it, only thing that has been removed is Newton Longville loop, presumably because it was found you don't need it to run the quantum of service specified. "nice to have" doesn't apply now. Remember that Oxford to MK is the vast majority of the business case for this phase, Aylesbury will just get kicked into the long grass whilst they argue who is going to build the bit that HS2 impinges on.
 

A0wen

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Probably but plenty of research says people prefer longer journeys by train than rail replacement bus.

Care to provide links to that research - because there's a lot of things passed off as fact on these boards for which there is no evidence. To actually see the evidence supporting this and not the ravings of the usual suspects would be a refreshing change.
 

Bald Rick

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Nearly £10bn? That is a lot on enhancements, but what are they? Crossrail aside -which I assume isn't included in that figure- I can't think of much: Corby electrification (but nothing else announced, yet alone a rolling programme); Barking Riverside & Northern Line extension in London (TfL projects that may or may not involve Central Government money); boosting the power supplies on the northern end of the ECML; and Werrington dive under; contributions towards a few new stations.

And now, to get back on topic, having already cut electrification, and freight capacity from East West Rail, they're looking at perhaps cutting out the long-planned route to Aylesbury as well!

Transpennine is £2bn alone

MML upgrade (which is more than electrification to Corby) getting on for a billion.

ECML Warrington and power upgrades about two thirds of a billion.

Heathrow Western link a third of a billion (in doubt now, obviously)

Croydon remodelling a third of a billion (for early stages). Same amount for tail end of GWML upgrade that was spent last year and this (there’s still some work to conclude)

Ely, Cambridge South station, Oxford corridor are about £200m each.

Then there’s the tail end of Thameslink, Hope Valley, Reading feeder, Gatwick station, Bristol E Junction, station accessibility, Devon coast ‘resilience’, Manchester area capacity and performance, all over £100m (some substantially more) and well over 50 smaller projects under £100m.


This doesn’t include HS2, EWR, NPR, or any TfL schemes including Crossrail.
 
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