EC & Connections Advance tickets from Falkirk only available if heading South

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Butts

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I often book trips on Advanced First Class Tickets to destinations such as York, Newcastle etc from FKG and am able to get a "through cheapie fare" ie latest one £12.55 each way to Darlington using the EC website.

However on attempting to book a trip up to Aberdeen the cheapest 1st Class Fare I could get was £93 return from FKG.

Going into Edinburgh I have cut this to a more manageable £13.80 each way.

Just wondered the reason for the anomaly - any ideas ?
 
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yorkie

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This isn't what I'd consider an anomaly. These Advance fares do not exist from Falkirk. You could write to East Coast and ask if there's a reason why this is.

As you say, if you combine a Falkirk-Edinburgh (walk-up) ticket with an Advance from Edibnburgh-Aberdeen, this will be cheaper than a through ticket, simply because the through Advance ticket does not exist.

A similar situation exists with TPE & Connections fares from York. You can get a Poppleton to somewhere north (e.g. Bishop Auckland) TPE & Connections, but you can't get a TPE & Connections to Manchester.

There will be dozens, if not hundreds, of examples all over the country, and is one of the reasons why "splitting" can be cheaper in some cases.
 

Butts

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This isn't what I'd consider an anomaly. These Advance fares do not exist from Falkirk. You could write to East Coast and ask if there's a reason why this is.

As you say, if you combine a Falkirk-Edinburgh (walk-up) ticket with an Advance from Edibnburgh-Aberdeen, this will be cheaper than a through ticket, simply because the through Advance ticket does not exist.

A similar situation exists with TPE & Connections fares from York. You can get a Poppleton to somewhere north (e.g. Bishop Auckland) TPE & Connections, but you can't get a TPE & Connections to Manchester.

There will be dozens, if not hundreds, of examples all over the country, and is one of the reasons why "splitting" can be cheaper in some cases.

It just seems strange that reasonable 1st Advanced through fares via Edinburgh are available to Cities in The North of England but not the North of Scotland from FKG hence eliminating the splitting.

Incidentally who needs a First Class ALR when fares like this are available - I have booked four 1st Class journeys for less than a £100 :p
 

DaveNewcastle

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Isn't this just a matter of market forces: supply and demand?

East Coast have to run 9 coach trains in and out of Kings Cross to various northern destinations, and, in general, the further north they are, the less passengers they are carrying. Its only reasonable that we see many of the very cheap (in terms of price per mile) Advance tickets being available on their trains in the north. It helps to reduce the amount of empty seats.
They also tend to be more expensive to run, with a typical crew of 6 or 7 on-board each train.

On the other hand, ScotRail operate more short & medium-distance services, with shorter trains, and therefore more flexibility in matching supply and demand. They also tend to operate with much fewer staff incurring salaries! They don't need to offer cheap Advance tickets to fill up the quieter legs of a train's journey in the same way as East Coast might have to.
 

Butts

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Isn't this just a matter of market forces: supply and demand?

East Coast have to run 9 coach trains in and out of Kings Cross to various northern destinations, and, in general, the further north they are, the less passengers they are carrying. Its only reasonable that we see many of the very cheap (in terms of price per mile) Advance tickets being available on their trains in the north. It helps to reduce the amount of empty seats.
They also tend to be more expensive to run, with a typical crew of 6 or 7 on-board each train.

On the other hand, ScotRail operate more short & medium-distance services, with shorter trains, and therefore more flexibility in matching supply and demand. They also tend to operate with much fewer staff incurring salaries! They don't need to offer cheap Advance tickets to fill up the quieter legs of a train's journey in the same way as East Coast might have to.
True but this does not explain why - wait for it - on East Coast a cheaper 1st Class Fare is available to Aberdeen than Dundee :oops: - yes you read that correctly.(from Edinburgh)

Also there is a bookable EC Advanced 1st Fare to Inverness from FKG but not Aberdeen.

As to your theory about distance and direction - is it further to Aberdeen than Darlington from Edinburgh - the Darlington from FKG is £12.55 1st the Aberdeen (from Edinburgh £13.80)

Madness :roll:
 

Failed Unit

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Falkirk - Inverness is direct which is why you can find it, you won't however from Linlithgow.

Split at Haymarket is you best fare if you want a decent train.

Zoe once pointed out another thing, you can only get Scotrail APs from the Scotrail website (happy to be proved wrong here). So if you want the Scotrail AP the you will not be able to collect east coast points. If you have a advance card it is half price off peak now. I do find scotrail walk on fares extremely expensive. I would never use the train to get to Dundee even with a family railcard because of the cost.
 

yorkie

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Butts - please do let us know if you do write to EC and ask them, what the response is (likewise with your other query and Scotrail).

There are some questions that just have to be put to the TOCs directly, as we are unable to answer.

As always, I am happy to proof read letters.
 

Butts

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Pleased to report I have been able to obtain an Advanced First from FKG to Carlisle.

Cheapest version £14.50 (TPE) forget that with their boneshaking crappy excuse for First Class :oops:

Have opted for VWC and Connections cost more but well worth it - yes folks Butts has coughed above the floor price for added luxury.:evil

Point of interest outward the route is via Glasgow , inward via Haymarket so are these presumeably both permitted routes - ie via Edinburgh or Glasgow.

Still recovering from having to pay £23 each way :roll:
 

bb21

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Valid Routes from Falkirk Grahamston [FKG] to Carlisle [CAR]:
  1. Direct trains from Falkirk Grahamston to Carlisle (of which there is none)
  2. Shortest Route: 111.25 miles
    • Falkirk Grahamston
    • Camelon
    • Cumbernauld
    • Greenfaulds
    • Coatbridge Central
    • Whifflet
    • Motherwell
    • Carstairs
    • Lockerbie
    • Carlisle
  3. Mapped Routes:
    FALKIRK GROUP - Carlisle:

Haymarket is a member of Edinburgh Group. Map FC clearly shows that travel via Edinburgh Group is permitted, as is via Glasgow Group.

(Not that it really matters for Advance fares, as routeing for such tickets can be strange.)
 

Butts

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Valid Routes from Falkirk Grahamston [FKG] to Carlisle [CAR]:
  1. Direct trains from Falkirk Grahamston to Carlisle (of which there is none)
  2. Shortest Route: 111.25 miles
    • Falkirk Grahamston
    • Camelon
    • Cumbernauld
    • Greenfaulds
    • Coatbridge Central
    • Whifflet
    • Motherwell
    • Carstairs
    • Lockerbie
    • Carlisle
  3. Mapped Routes:
    FALKIRK GROUP - Carlisle:

Haymarket is a member of Edinburgh Group. Map FC clearly shows that travel via Edinburgh Group is permitted, as is via Glasgow Group.

(Not that it really matters for Advance fares, as routeing for such tickets can be strange.)
Thankyou for the trouble you have taken - a yes or no would have sufficed, but at least I am now aware of the "technical side"
 

reb0118

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I recently saw a FKG - CAR advance routed FKG -CUB - MTH - CAR. Obviously perfectly valid & the shortest route but it is strange to see advance fares routed via the SCM line.
 
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