EC October diversion

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bb21

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Set Down. Just like the Scotrail sleeper does at Preston. It's not supposed to pick people up or drop them off.

All depends what went into TRUST - I'm guessing STP Scotland team at Network Rail put the paths with the stop as a timing point.

None of the EC services between Newcastle and Carlisle are listed with pick up/set down restrictions at Carlisle, on either the coming Saturday or Sunday, in either direction.

When I did the diversionary route previously, Carlisle has always been announced, and treated as, a normall station call, even on HSTs without the need to detach/attach locos.

No - Because you've booked on that service, then that revenue will go to East Coast. If you booked on a Northern service, the revenue would go to Northern.

I'm not sure you understand how ORCATS works.

I see what I've done here - Slight confusion (My apology). Tyne Valley rovers aren't valid. I was made to buy a full NCL-CAR return at full price. I don't need a source, I was made to purchase the full ticket price by the guard. The source is myself.

That is no proof that the guard's actions were correct.
 
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34Short

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None of the EC services between Newcastle and Carlisle are listed with pick up/set down restrictions at Carlisle, on either the coming Saturday or Sunday, in either direction.

Correct. But the only reason these sets are stopping is to drop off the 67 and to await a path.

We were discussing this in the office and the implication of putting these onto the middle roads at Carlisle - Would it make a difference or not, or if the enthusiasts would pipe up...

(Disclaimer - My views do not express the same as my employer Network Rail)
 

bb21

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Correct. But the only reason these sets are stopping is to drop off the 67 and to await a path.

We were discussing this in the office and the implication of putting these onto the middle roads at Carlisle - Would it make a difference or not, or if the enthusiasts would pipe up...

(Disclaimer - My views do not express the same as my employer Network Rail)

It is not of concern to the passengers though what the reasons are for the train to stop there. All the passengers can see is that the stop is being advertised as a normal station call therefore normal ticketing arrangements apply to this station.

If the train is routed down the middle road, it will not be advertised as a station call in the public timetable. It will only exist as a station call (possibly) in the WTT.
 

34Short

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It is not of concern to the passengers though what the reasons are for the train to stop there. All the passengers can see is that the stop is being advertised as a normal station call therefore normal ticketing arrangements apply to this station.

I've given up arguing about the ticketing, as no-one's listening.


If the train is routed down the middle road, it will not be advertised as a station call in the public timetable. It will only exist as a station call (possibly) in the WTT.

I know. It's my job to write the WTT - Well, Freight paths anyway...
 
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ainsworth74

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No - Because you've booked on that service, then that revenue will go to East Coast. If you booked on a Northern service, the revenue would go to Northern.

Seat reservations do not determine where revenue goes (apart from Advance tickets which are only valid on the booked service). I have been sold an Off-Peak Day Return Newcastle - Carlisle, this ticket is valid on every service (including East Coast) between the two stations. The fact I have reservations for two specific services does not reduce this validity. You should investigate ORCATS as it is this that distributes ticket revenue to the various TOCs.

I've given up arguing about the ticketing, as no-one's listening.

That's a shame as I'd love to know what your source is for your continuing claims that tickets aren't valid on these services (beyond the incorrect actions of one guard).
 

yorkie

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I've given up arguing about the ticketing, as no-one's listening.
Because you're wrong. I suggest you familiarise yourself with the National Rail Conditions of Carriage, which sets the terms for ticket validity.

Tyne Valley Day Rangers are valid and have been accepted without question on numerous occasions. I am sorry to hear you encountered an incorrect guard, but I am sure EC would have refunded you and given appropriate advice to the guard, if you had written a letter to the Company.
 

D1009

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If the train is routed down the middle road, it will not be advertised as a station call in the public timetable. It will only exist as a station call (possibly) in the WTT.

The middle roads at Carlisle are signalled as goods lines and can only be used by passenger trains by special arrangement.
 

hairyhandedfool

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Seat reservations do not determine where revenue goes (apart from Advance tickets which are only valid on the booked service).....

Doesn't even work that way for Advance tickets, all tickets use ORCATS. The route on a ticket helps distribute the revenue.
 

43167

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I covered the 1st tyne valleys on a weekly basis in 2004. They were advertised set down only at Carlisle going newcastle-scotland and pick-up only the other way.

Some then there were some diversions over christmas same year and they called at carlisle and were advertised as a normal stop and its been that way ever since.

Also one sunday I drove to Carlisle and used a Tyne Valley day ranger with no problems, helped by the fact they were vaild to Durham on all TOC's.
 

sprinterguy

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I covered the 1st tyne valleys on a weekly basis in 2004.
You as well? :) I was fairly prolific on those GNER diversions in 2004. I recall the station call arrangements at Carlisle exactly as you describe them, and I am equally as sure as you that I used a Tyne Valley Ranger on at least one of those weekends.
 

DaveNewcastle

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Why is it stopping in carlisle?
not only have there been vital changes of driver at Carlisle but its the only sensible way for passengers to connect between the northeast/yorkshire and western Scotland. I've used the EC diverts (changing at Carlisle) for travel between Newcastle and Glasgow.
 

Wikipedia

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It would appear from Open Train Times that it is to be held at Quintinshill Pass Loop for 8 1/2 minutes! Any idea why??
 

MikeWh

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Doesn't even work that way for Advance tickets, all tickets use ORCATS. The route on a ticket helps distribute the revenue.

Are you seriously suggesting that EC have to share the revenue on a booked train only KGX-YRK Advance ticket? I can understand that the &Connections part would be subject to ORCATS distribution, but surely there is no question which company(ies) should get the booked train(s) part(s).
 

Jonny

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I covered the 1st tyne valleys on a weekly basis in 2004. They were advertised set down only at Carlisle going newcastle-scotland and pick-up only the other way.

Some then there were some diversions over christmas same year and they called at carlisle and were advertised as a normal stop and its been that way ever since.

Also one sunday I drove to Carlisle and used a Tyne Valley day ranger with no problems, helped by the fact they were vaild to Durham on all TOC's.

It seems to have been replaced by this, which is advertised as "Northern Rail", which doesn't cover Durham (or any other EC routes) either.
 

DXMachina

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Saw a 91, several mk4s and a dvt go through Apsley once while waiting for a train to London. Might have been around 1990 ? no idea why
 
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