ECML class 91 & 43 carriage sets refurb 2016?

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by NightatLaira, 30 Aug 2015.

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  1. NightatLaira

    NightatLaira Member

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    it's been about 12 years since the ECML 'Mallard' refurbishment started in late 2003, which was the first refurbishment of the 91 sets which were about 13 years old at the time...

    So - VTEC / their ROSCO probably need to think about their 2nd refurb...

    Standard class has not worn well at all, and I hope the next rendition of seats are more like the 222 Meridian sets
     
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  3. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    VTEC has nice shiny new trains heading their way soon so I don't imagine they'll be putting a lot of money into the fleet - at least not the ones they are going to be handing back to the ROSCO.
     
  4. D365

    D365 Established Member

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    They plan to retain only a few of their electric IC225 rakes if the additional services to Edinburgh are approved.
     
  5. NightatLaira

    NightatLaira Member

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    Surely the 91 sets aren't heading to scrap heap after only 30 years?

    Will they not get cascaded somewhere? GEML? It's HSBC Rail / Porterbrook who are the ROSCO isn't it?
     
  6. Blindtraveler

    Blindtraveler Established Member

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    Nowhere near enough to a Pacer :(
    Seat Covers, carpets, internal repaint and general tidy up is about all youl get me thinks.
     
  7. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    It's almost certain that they'll be cascaded.
     
  8. D365

    D365 Established Member

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    Why do you sound so shocked? The design life for the Class 91 was 30 years... Fairly typical for a high-speed train, the HSTs obviously being the anomaly.
     
    Last edited: 30 Aug 2015
  9. thealexweb

    thealexweb Member

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    There has been near constant silence on where the vast majority of the '225' sets are heading in the next few years. I know it is a long shot but I am still hoping they make an appearance on the Manchester to Scotland services.
     
  10. NightatLaira

    NightatLaira Member

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    Manchester / Scotland services would be a good use for them.
     
  11. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    In Japan on the Shinkansen they've started scrapping units built in the late 90s
     
  12. gimmea50anyday

    gimmea50anyday Established Member

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    Midland mainline had been mooted as a cascade route as they were supposed to be stringing the wires up now!

    Greater anglia is also a possible cascade route, but apart from dieselised and put on XC routes there really arent any suitable routes for the stock to be used on.
     
    Last edited: 31 Aug 2015
  13. dk1

    dk1 Established Member

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    It doesn't look like they will head over to the GEML for use with cl90s now. The new franchise is looking for new build & as train length cannot be extended at Liverpool Street the space taken up by the loco & DVT is not deemed to be the best option to run with.
     
  14. sprinterguy

    sprinterguy Established Member

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    £13.4 million has been earmarked for a refresh of the current East Coast train fleet during the first two years of the franchise. This will include an initial deep clean of the entire fleet, refurbished toilets, new carpets and seat covers.
     
  15. fishquinn

    fishquinn Established Member Quizmaster

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    You could send a few MK4s and DVTs to the Chilterns to replace the 168s on the Marylebone-Birmingham route. These could then work the Oxford Parkway and Milton Keynes services with the MK4s and DVTs working with a loco so everything between Marylebone and Brum is hauled.
     
  16. 3141

    3141 Established Member

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    That's probably because nobody knows. The ROSCO that owns them is probably looking at possibilities and hoping it can persuade someone to take them. The DfT may be thinking where they might be used. A lot depends on where there are wires to use them under. The idea of using them with a loco on Chiltern, or maybe somewhere else, is an interesting one and an example of how the whole network is open to speculation on the subject. (Well, maybe not Gunnislake.)
     
  17. Tempest3K

    Tempest3K Member

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    Are MK4's 100% compliant with the disability regs? If so, the class 91 sets could be a cheap option for an open access 'startup' in future?
     
  18. NSEFAN

    NSEFAN Established Member

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    In that case the DfT will want them sent to Booths asap. <D
     
  19. 43367

    43367 Member

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    The VTEC fleet will be getting a refurbishment, this involves all seat covers, wall and floor carpets, tables and toilets getting replaced, the std seats will be done in a red fabric and the first class will be getting leather seat covers. Expect the first set to go in when they have finished stickering up the exteriors, and it is expected that once underway a set will be completed in a fortnight, which is pretty good going, although i guess the first few sets may take a tad longer whilst it becomes clear what is actually required and experience is gained
     
  20. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    Yet more gaudy red upholstery on its way.

    Why does the private sector have such a blind spot when it comes to soothing pastel interiors.

    I also don't get the whole leather seats thing frankly, but given I can rarely afford to travel first class on VTEC anyway it's a bit of a moot point.
     
  21. 47271

    47271 Established Member

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    They do seem to be getting the exteriors done pretty quickly, the last three I've been on have all been in Stagecoach colours.

    Stagecoach red on the seats is probably fine to my eyes: I've never understood the unpatterned light greys and beiges used on the present interiors, far too susceptible to stains and marks.

    If they could repair the presently large number of broken recline mechanisms in First Class - one out of four on my last few trips - when they're about it that would be helpful. They run loose adding an interesting extra experience during braking or acceleration, or are permanently reclined.
     
  22. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    the present yellowy-grey might be susceptible to stains, but the dark blue used on some seats is quite resistant.
     
  23. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    that is because they have built better trains - we havent
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    And lighting - why cant they get lighting right. The Pendos have a dark interior and dim lighting? why?

    And paint schemes - why cant the internal decorations on, say, a Pendolino be light coloured. They have tiny slit like windows so you need to maximise natural lighting not soak it up with browns and reds and grays

    the "leather" seats are popular as they are easy to clean and don't stain easily.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    I would hope a home is found for the 91/mkiv combo but knowing our railways they will be scrapped and replaced with a sub voyager/javelin clone that offers a reduction in passenger comfort.

    ( i quite like these trains as you might have realised!)
     
  24. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    And yet Virgin came up with one of my favourite post privatisation colour schemes with their refurbished Mk 2's, whose turquoisy-green upholstery and managed to be light without being vulgar.

    Yes, me too. I would be sad to see them go.
     
  25. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    I don't understand how they pay all that money for new trains then skimp on a bit of interior design. They clealry sacked the ones employed for the Mkii refurb when they fitted out the Pendos!
     
  26. 47271

    47271 Established Member

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    I totally agree on the dark blue on both the mk4s and HSTs, it's stood up well.

    This is probably better suited to another not unrelated thread, and I don't think about seat covers that much, but a few months ago I got stopped on the main concourse at King's Cross by a man with a clipboard. He was standing by some nice seats, which he explained were testers for the new ECML trains. I sat on both First and Standard and declared them comfortable but maybe a little short on lumbar support.

    Their upholstery was also light in colour (First was a greyish pink and roughish in surface like Southern Electrostars I recall) and lacking in pattern. I said that this would probably mark readily, so if VTEC's seats look grubby by 2021 I did warn the researcher!

    That said, and quite off topic, those unusual grey-green abrasive seat covers on Southern don't seem to have got quite as filthy over the years as you'd think?
     
  27. FOH

    FOH Member

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    Do you mean WC or XC? If WC, I'm pretty sure I remember a photo of a beaming Ivor Warburton on the first refurbished ICWC rake with green seats just weeks before Virgin won the franchise.
     
  28. hibtastic

    hibtastic Member

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    I agree, I think they would be a fantastic train for Manchester to Scotland.
     
  29. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Because some of us like subdued lighting and relaxing interior colours (my favourite seat in a Pendolino is the very end priority seat in Coach A, which has even more subdued lighting as the tubes don't quite reach it). Individual reading lights are provided if you want increased personal lighting. Whereas I can't avoid sitting in an interrogation room if I use a fGW HST.

    I think the dark colours look classy, personally.
     
    Last edited: 8 Sep 2015
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