ECML closed PBO to KGX Aug Bank Holiday routing

[Class83]

The obvious question would be whether they would have sufficient traincrew to operate additional services?

(Train drivers take holidays too ...)

Indeed, in a lot of industries it's quite common for there to be a requirement for annual leave to be taken at times of lower demand, or could freight drivers operate the 91s if there is less freight work over the summer? I doubt many sound or lighting techs in Edinburgh are on holiday at the moment, retail workers tend not to be allowed to take much leave around Christmas... There is also a general question (though I don't think GNER are badly affected as I guess as a 'glamour' TOC, they can poach drivers from other companies, of many TOCs operating below the appropriate number of drivers as overtime is cheaper than training more staff.

Still, it's happening in 3 days, I feel most sorry for the likely poorly paid staff at Kings Cross and Waverley over the weekend who're going to be trying to redirect a lot of passengers.

 

[6Gman]

Indeed, in a lot of industries it's quite common for there to be a requirement for annual leave to be taken at times of lower demand, or could freight drivers operate the 91s if there is less freight work over the summer?

There will - I suspect - be limits on how many drivers can book leave at the same time. Doubt that the TOCs can block annual leave for the whole of August. Drivers have children too ...

Freight drivers won't be traction trained on 91s.

 

[Mugby]

I still can't understand why the EMR service is terminating at Sheffield on Saturday when the line to Leeds is open and the HST set most likely needs to go to Neville Hill anyway.

It's almost as if it's been done purposely to deter London - Leeds passengers!

 

[ainsworth74]

It's almost as if it's been done purposely to deter London - Leeds passengers!

It may very well be precisely for that reason! They'd be offering one of, if not the, only direct services to Leeds which is a recipe for massive overcrowding. It's the same logic that has Hull Trains serving only St Pancras, Brough and Hull on Saturday and Sunday to avoid being swamped at Doncaster!

 

[ashkeba]

Sadly this is limited to 387s at the moment - there’s a temporary block on any of these types of announcements/pictures being put on 700s/717s due to the issues faced last time.

This will vary from station to station as it’s largely been left to local station staff to put them up and decide where they go. Some are absolutely plastered in leaflets/posters/banners and you literally couldn’t miss them, others less so.

I've travelled on two Saturday and one Friday 387 services recently. No announcements. There might have been scrolling text about it but that can't be seen from all seats.

Station posters have been spotted but they've been on platforms or small patches on the engineering boards which, as others have said, isn't where irregular weekend travellers check. This needed to be big, clear and on station front boards, signs saying "Bank Holiday Weekend: No Kings Cross Trains" on the totem pole.

I expect loads of rants this weekend on local media. One thing usually pointed out is that highways departments suspend many works over bank holidays because irregular travelers are dangerously bad at coping with disruption and commuters often already have experience of alternate reroutes. Does that not apply to the railways?

 

[hwl]

One thing usually pointed out is that highways departments suspend many works over bank holidays because irregular travelers are dangerously bad at coping with disruption and commuters often already have experience of alternate reroutes. Does that not apply to the railways?

The number of traveller on rail is far lower on the BH weekends where as it often goes up on the roads. There is not the alternative capacity on weekdays on railways and bus /coach availability for hire is worse on weekdays.

 

[SC43090]

I still can't understand why the EMR service is terminating at Sheffield on Saturday when the line to Leeds is open and the HST set most likely needs to go to Neville Hill anyway.

It's almost as if it's been done purposely to deter London - Leeds passengers!

EMT put out a press statement a month or so ago advising passengers NOT to travel over the August Bank Holiday weekend as Kings Cross would be closed & there services very busy..... It also stated that the Leeds--Pancras--Leeds & Pancras--Scarborough--Pancras services would start & Terminate at Sheffield......... Looking at real times trains its noted that 1B23 0633 Leeds Pancras & 1B28 0740 Leeds Pancras will run as 5B23 & 5B28 as ECS from Leeds to Sheffield..... What a way to discourage passengers from travelling run them Empty stock.......

SC 43090

 

[Mag_seven]

The number of traveller on rail is far lower on the BH weekends

Relative to a weekday perhaps but that does not mean it is a low number.

 

[hwl]

Relative to a weekday perhaps but that does not mean it is a low number.

Indeed but it needs to be as low as possible to make managing it more tractable.

 

[ashkeba]

The number of traveller on rail is far lower on the BH weekends where as it often goes up on the roads.

Does it go up on the roads or is it just abnormal flows all trying to leave at similar times?

 

[hwl]

Does it go up on the roads or is it just abnormal flows all trying to leave at similar times?

Abnormal flow and higher traffic levels in many places but quieter in others

 

[43055]

EMT put out a press statement a month or so ago advising passengers NOT to travel over the August Bank Holiday weekend as Kings Cross would be closed & there services very busy..... It also stated that the Leeds--Pancras--Leeds & Pancras--Scarborough--Pancras services would start & Terminate at Sheffield......... Looking at real times trains its noted that 1B23 0633 Leeds Pancras & 1B28 0740 Leeds Pancras will run as 5B23 & 5B28 as ECS from Leeds to Sheffield..... What a way to discourage passengers from travelling run them Empty stock.......

SC 43090

I don't know about the Leeds services but canceling the Scarborough will allow for a extra 5 car to work to London and possibly lengthen to a 9/10 car set with another 4/5 car?

 

[Andyh82]

Station posters have been spotted but they've been on platforms or small patches on the engineering boards which, as others have said, isn't where irregular weekend travellers check. This needed to be big, clear and on station front boards, signs saying "Bank Holiday Weekend: No Kings Cross Trains" on the totem pole.

That’s exactly what they have done. In Leeds there have been massive 6 feet tall posters saying DO NOT TRAVEL since the beginning of July at least.

Whatever they do, they’ll still get people turning up on the day. No doubt the news channels will be on hand to interview these travellers and it’ll be yet another kicking for the rail industry.

 

[jon0844]

With the weather forecast being excellent this weekend, there's plenty of scope for photos of sad little Johnny missing out on his day at the beach because the railway deliberately picked a hot Bank Holiday weekend to do work that nobody will think necessary because trains are always late anyway...

 

[ashkeba]

That’s exactly what they have done. In Leeds there have been massive 6 feet tall posters saying DO NOT TRAVEL since the beginning of July at least.

Whatever they do, they’ll still get people turning up on the day. No doubt the news channels will be on hand to interview these travellers and it’ll be yet another kicking for the rail industry.

Great it's happened in Leeds. It needed to happen at all stations affected, though.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I travel fairly extensively and have been seeing posters, hearing announcements on trains and stations, seen full page adverts in the Metro and heard about it in radio ads, info across EMT/EMR, LNER, Great Northern and Greater Anglia, and been offered leaflets on stations.

I know that the median ‘average’ once-a-year traveller will not have heard about it or ‘tuned in’ but really don’t know what more the industry could have done.

 

[ashkeba]

What more could the industry have done? Signs and posters outside stations, as reportedly happened at Leeds.

Handing out leaflets in trains or putting stuff in metro is mainly going to reach unaffected commuters. Waste of resources.

 

[jon0844]

What more could the industry have done? Signs and posters outside stations, as reportedly happened at Leeds.

Handing out leaflets in trains or putting stuff in metro is mainly going to reach unaffected commuters. Waste of resources.

No it isn't. There are plenty of commuters who work weekends, or wish to travel for leisure as they enjoy 'free' travel with their season, and so also need to know to make alternative arrangements.

While the advice is not to travel on the ECML, as buses will be limited in capacity, people can make informed decisions on alternatives - like driving or taking a taxi to another station, or planning around the increased journey time if you take one of the shuttle buses, use a TfL bus, tube or whatever.

 

[Ianno87]

No it isn't. There are plenty of commuters who work weekends, or wish to travel for leisure as they enjoy 'free' travel with their season, and so also need to know to make alternative arrangements.

If they haven't seen the messages by now, they probably won't see the messages no matter what the industry would have done. All this stuff isn't free to do, and there has to be a limit.

Besides, it is well known general advice anyway to check your journey before travelling, particularly at weekends. Applies here too.

 

[jon0844]

If they haven't seen the messages by now, they probably won't see the messages no matter what the industry would have done. All this stuff isn't free to do, and there has to be a limit.

Besides, it is well known general advice anyway to check your journey before travelling, particularly at weekends. Applies here too.

I am sure they have, but it's good to remind people that this weekend is it. If you read about it earlier this year, you may well forget (I've done that many times, I'll admit). Plus it's one thing to know, but another to be informed on what you can do if you still want to travel. Initially everything was about 'Do not travel' but more recently details of alternative arrangements have been published, and so you can now plan. Clearly the best thing to do is NOT turn up at a station that's closed and wait for a bus, but that doesn't mean you have to stay home.

 

[ashkeba]

If they haven't seen the messages by now, they probably won't see the messages no matter what the industry would have done. All this stuff isn't free to do, and there has to be a limit.

Besides, it is well known general advice anyway to check your journey before travelling, particularly at weekends. Applies here too.

Commuters will know this, so the usual engineering boards and on board announcements will reach them. Buying ads in weekday station paper "metro" is inefficient at reaching weekend travelers, which is why I say it was a waste of resources when some stations haven't even had external posters.

 

[Fred26]

Commuters will know this, so the usual engineering boards and on board announcements will reach them. Buying ads in weekday station paper "metro" is inefficient at reaching weekend travelers, which is why I say it was a waste of resources when some stations haven't even had external posters.

Advertising was also purchased in many local papers, including the Comet group in Hertfordshire.
Which stations in particular have had no posters displayed?

 

[ashkeba]

Advertising was also purchased in many local papers, including the Comet group in Hertfordshire.
Which stations in particular have had no posters displayed?

No external posters at several stations in the Cambridge area as of last weekend. I expect they all had the usual engineering board posters but that doesn't reach infrequent travelers.

Adverts in local press is more use than in metro but local print and broadcast media reach is falling. Anyone seen paid ads online on social networks? I've not.

It's only gone on station CIS this week AIUI. It was not displayed last weekend when I traveled which was probably already too late to reach many affeted. Nothing on MML Thameslink stations CIS yet warning them they're about to get ECML passengers too, though?

 

[Fred26]

No external posters at several stations in the Cambridge area as of last weekend. I expect they all had the usual engineering board posters but that doesn't reach infrequent travelers.

Adverts in local press is more use than in metro but local print and broadcast media reach is falling. Anyone seen paid ads online on social networks? I've not.

It's only gone on station CIS this week AIUI. It was not displayed last weekend when I traveled which was probably already too late to reach many affeted.

All GN stations had posters delivered, the busier stations have got huge banners too. Whether or not the standard size posters are displayed comes down to the station staff and the local manager. I don't go up that way, so I can't help more than that.

They can't advertise everywhere, however, I've just checked the briefing from a couple of weeks ago which states that advertising on social media is ongoing. It doesn't go into specifics so I don't know any more than that.
Where should they advertise online - Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, any of the numerous image sharing sites...? That would cost them a fortune.

Short of going around to every single person that may or may not travel that weekend and telling them personally, there is nothing more they could do. The line has to be drawn somewhere and people have to take some responsibility. There will always be people who don't check before they travel, along with those who don't read CIS/posters, and don't listen to announcements. Some people can't be reached.

 

[ashkeba]

All GN stations had posters delivered, the busier stations have got huge banners too. Whether or not the standard size posters are displayed comes down to the station staff and the local manager. I don't go up that way, so I can't help more than that.

They can't advertise everywhere, however, I've just checked the briefing from a couple of weeks ago which states that advertising on social media is ongoing. It doesn't go into specifics so I don't know any more than that.
Where should they advertise online - Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, any of the numerous image sharing sites...? That would cost them a fortune.

Short of going around to every single person that may or may not travel that weekend and telling them personally, there is nothing more they could do. The line has to be drawn somewhere and people have to take some responsibility. There will always be people who don't check before they travel, along with those who don't read CIS/posters, and don't listen to announcements. Some people can't be reached.

Of course 100% coverage is impossible but do you really think that this is the best mix? Spend on metro ads rather than online local social networks, for example?

And if it's up to station staff, that may be why GN station publiciyy seemed patchy. Some stations are unstaffed and the staff at the rest seeming worked of their feets - covering colleague holidays as well as extra staff-time-demanding tourist traffic maybe?

I expect a press blitz today and tomorrow, just in time to upset tourists expecting to avoid the holiday weekend jams by letting the trains take the strain. Brace yourselves for the comment sections!

 

[Fred26]

Of course 100% coverage is impossible but do you really think that this is the best mix? Spend on metro ads rather than online local social networks, for example?

And if it's up to station staff, that may be why GN station publiciyy seemed patchy. Some stations are unstaffed and the staff at the rest seeming worked of their feets - covering colleague holidays as well as extra staff-time-demanding tourist traffic maybe?

I expect a press blitz today and tomorrow, just in time to upset tourists expecting to avoid the holiday weekend jams by letting the trains take the strain. Brace yourselves for the comment sections!

Yes, what GTR have done is sufficient. They've advertised on social media. It's not an either or - they've covered the bases.

Some stations are unmanned, but these are few and far between. However, even the unmanned stations have poster boards and staff travel around to change them.

 

[hwl]

Of course 100% coverage is impossible but do you really think that this is the best mix? Spend on metro ads rather than online local social networks, for example?

And if it's up to station staff, that may be why GN station publiciyy seemed patchy. Some stations are unstaffed and the staff at the rest seeming worked of their feets - covering colleague holidays as well as extra staff-time-demanding tourist traffic maybe?

I expect a press blitz today and tomorrow, just in time to upset tourists expecting to avoid the holiday weekend jams by letting the trains take the strain. Brace yourselves for the comment sections!

The majority of total ECML route passengers travel on GTR, the size of that majority gets even bigger when you just look at the southern half.
Metro is pretty effective at reaching potential users as can be seen from TfL's continued use of it.

 

[ashkeba]

The majority of total ECML route passengers travel on GTR, the size of that majority gets even bigger when you just look at the southern half.
Metro is pretty effective at reaching potential users as can be seen from TfL's continued use of it.

Great Northern (GN) is part of G TR, isn't it? So to repeat: not enough external posters on GTRs ECML stations that I'veseen. Should be like reported above for Leeds: big banners, weeks ahead.

I also suspect metro doesn't reach many occasional weekend travelers in Herts/Cambs but anyone who has numbers on that please share them.

 

[jon0844]

Great Northern (GN) is part of G TR, isn't it? So to repeat: not enough external posters on GTRs ECML stations that I'veseen. Should be like reported above for Leeds: big banners, weeks ahead.

I also suspect metro doesn't reach many occasional weekend travelers in Herts/Cambs but anyone who has numbers on that please share them.

Why are you so concerned about advertising in Metro? If you think commuters don't need to worry about the weekend because, despite paying three or four grand a year they never travel on weekends (especially holiday weekends), then what if these people have friends and family that they can warn?

You're getting a pretty good bang for your buck, and I am sure some people read the digital Metro even if they don't set foot inside a train station.

The Metro advertising budget didn't stop other advertising, but as has been said many times already, there's no way to inform every single person without spending an absolute fortune - and how much would you like your fares to go up by to fund this?

 

[Sheps7755]

I mean I've seen posters absoloutely everywhere for the closure.
Even users of the smaller stations are usually travelling to the larger hubs.
Can't see many people going from Meldreth to Foxton.