ECML closed PBO to KGX Aug Bank Holiday routing

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Metal_gee_man, 4 Jun 2019.

  1. Dr Hoo

    Dr Hoo Established Member

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    Depends a bit on the route but anything transferring ECML passengers used to 9-coach trains across to another route, e.g. at Nottingham, Leicester or Cambridge, in 2 or 3-car DMUs can quickly get cosy, even with bank holiday levels of traffic.
     
  2. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Other routes will be busy because they'll be taking on extra people displaced by the works. Now imagine if you did it in the week and had to combine commuters on a smaller number of trains, or local buses.
     
  3. Solent&Wessex

    Solent&Wessex Established Member

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    Which of course means using TPE. A TOC well known for having loads of spare capacity on Bank Holiday weekends to soak up all the extra passengers.

    But as long as people can get from York to London thats OK. Sod the people from Huddersfield who want to go to Manchester who won't be able to fit on the trains.
     
  4. Kite159

    Kite159 Veteran Member

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    The Huddersfield starter will be popular then
     
  5. Metal_gee_man

    Metal_gee_man Member

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    With Hull trains running 3 southbound and 3 northbound from Hull to St Pancras on the MML but not providing any extra capacity just using it, EMT could have run Doncaster to St Pancras and helped out but the DfT gave the paths to Hull Trains like this below

    http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N02168/2019/08/24/advanced
     
  6. Hadders

    Hadders Established Member

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    I often work in London and also visit most weekends so i’m Well qualified to talk about the leadings on the ECML south of Stevenage.

    There’s never a good time to do this work but trust me, although the train’s are busy at weekends they’re far less busy than on a typical weekday in the rush hour. Also fewer trains run at weekends, again underlining that fewer people will be impacted.

    I can only remember one other occasion in the last 20 years when there were no trains from Stevenage so this work is pretty much unprecedented.

    Personally, if I do travel into London that weekend I’ll either:

    1. Drive to Cockfosters and get the Piccadilly Line
    2. Drive to Hertford East for a train to Liverpool Street

    Both options will take far longer than the normal 24 minute train journey.

    This work has to be done, I know I will benefit from the additional platform at Stevenage.
     
  7. Dr Hoo

    Dr Hoo Established Member

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    The DfT don't 'give' (or sell, allocate, etc.) paths too anyone.
     
  8. Aictos

    Aictos On Moderation

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    Just quickly but why is Luton Airport Parkway a better location then Luton Town to terminate rail replacement services? Personally I think it's a oversight by GTR especially as it coped fairly well with last weekend and this weekend, okay there are no lifts but there are far more alternatives at Luton Town then at Parkway!

    The latter has a wide choice of both bus and coach routes plus just to name two routes, you've got the 99 to Milton Keynes and the 757 to London Victoria both would be VERY popular on those days.

    It's not actually the DfT who gives out the paths but Network Rail which gets approved by the ORR, I do agree though that Hull Trains and Grand Central should really on those days just run a shuttle service between Hull/Sunderland and Doncaster which leaves paths from Doncaster to London free for operators who would make better use of it.

    Of course, Hull Trains could work with Grand Central to run a 10 car to London HOWEVER not stopping anywhere useful is a block to that!
     
  9. 43055

    43055 Member

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    These are shown as a unadvertised express? Is this to ease overcrowding or something.

    As much as I would like to see EMT/R extend up to Doncaster but when looking at the platform allocations (even with the reduced LNER service) there is a lot of services on 4 and 8 which are the platforms from the Sheffield direction. Sheffield will be another sticking point due to the amount of services using the north end of the station and the lines out there. Realistically the best option is to use as much as possible on the normal timetable with 9 and 10 car 222's and 2 extra 8 car HST's could be freed up from the Skeggy extras by using the short 6 car sets instead.
     
  10. 800002

    800002 Member

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    I suspect the overworked goblins in MK have missed another TOC induced error.
     
  11. Qwerty133

    Qwerty133 Established Member

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    Using 6 car HSTs on Skeggy probably causes more problems than it gives solutions as there is (virtually) no staff trained on both the sets and route and I believe EMT do not use the DVT luggage area in those units which would cause luggage issues. Extra HSTs sourced from LNER are much more likely to be a viable solution to lengthen EMT services than releasing the ones on Skeggy services unless someone can be convinced to give up several 156s for the weekend to use on the Skeggy services.
     
  12. Metal_gee_man

    Metal_gee_man Member

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    Was I meant to say Network Rail, but as Hull are an open access operator is this because the company were prepared to do the diversion and kicked off about losing revenue (considering Grand Central aren't running a thing) or were they forced by the powers that be
     
  13. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Hull Trains when they bid to the ORR for paths put into their request a desire for the right to run into St Pancras via a number of alternative routes when Kings Cross is unavailable (this includes using the MML). When those paths were awarded they were given rights to utilise St Pancras when Kings Cross is closed. They are therefore utilising their contractual rights to continue to run their service.

    Grand Central are, of course, not running any trains at all that weekend. They, unlike Hull Trains, appear to prefer to not run at all when Kings Cross is shut (they've done this previously). There would be nothing stopping them in their last track access application requesting contingent rights to run services into St Pancras via alternative routes but they didn't and instead just don't run a single train all weekend. So it's less Hull Trains not working with Grand Central but instead Grand Central not working at all.

    Hull Trains haven't opened reservations for that weekend yet. One presumes as they are still finalising their arrangements. I would be more concerned if reservations were open but the trains were still unadvertised!
     
  14. thealm

    thealm Member

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    When would the timetable be finalised then as the date should have been released for booking by now for both Hull Trains and London North Eastern Railway?
     
  15. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    How long is a piece of string? LNER are now on sale for that weekend though so I doubt it'll be too much longer for Hull Trains.
     
  16. SC43090

    SC43090 Member

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    EMT have been crew training staff on the ex Grand Central sets to Skegness over the winter months on at least half a dozen occasions to my knowledge

    SC 43090
     
  17. 800002

    800002 Member

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    Humm... agreed on your last point there. I always thought that reservations and bookings was TOC business, regardless of the advertised condition of the schedule. The TOC now needs to rebid the schedules to NR to advertise them in CIS systems.

    As all the stops are OP stops they won't be advertised anyway? Correct?

    Time shall tell what they are doing...
     
  18. LowLevel

    LowLevel Established Member

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    Only for drivers for whom the sets are entirely interchangeable - they happened to be available at a convenient time to use them. For guards they're a separate competency and there are literally 2 senior conductors trained on them IIRC.
     
  19. Arctic Troll

    Arctic Troll Established Member

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    Bigger station, bigger bus station, closer to the motorway, closer to London.

    Any more?
     
  20. londonbridge

    londonbridge Member

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    And with the release of the EFL fixtures today, the answer to my question of who we (Sunderland) will be playing that weekend is.......home against Wimbledon.
     
  21. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Shame that the FA didn't take account of the well publicised closure when creating their fixtures for that weekend.
     
  22. Aictos

    Aictos On Moderation

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    Bigger station?

    Umm no, it only has 4 platforms vs 5 at Luton Town!

    Bigger bus station?

    Umm no, you could fit Parkway’s bus station twice over at Luton Interchange!

    Closer to the M1?

    Literally both are fairly close to it so you don’t save any time!

    Closer to London?

    Well yes but there are far more services both coach and rail from Luton Town!

    Try again with more valid reasons!
     
  23. 43055

    43055 Member

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    From the training runs that have taken place I was under the understanding that a higher number of staff was trained up on these sets for skeggy. Even useing the spare 8 car and 2 DY sets would allow for 3 222s to be paired up which is better than nothing. I don't think LNER will be willing to give up the HSTs as they are going along the joint line that weekend. Although more 800s may be in use by then.

    Good point.
     
  24. LowLevel

    LowLevel Established Member

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    I'm afraid your understanding is incorrect. The training runs to Skegness were for drivers only. Local side senior conductors undertaking training on HSTs, in a fairly unusual but convenient move for the company, do so by working them with an instructor out of London St Pancras.
     
  25. mm333

    mm333 Member

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    A couple of Christmasses ago, Peterborough was closed on 27 December. That day, EMT extend the Nottingham services to Grantham to connect.
     
  26. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Veteran Member

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    Yes, there's an extra direct 1352 Edinburgh-Euston on the Saturday.
    However it's a Voyager (might be 5-car or 10-car), and is overtaken by a regular Glasgow 390 service en route.
    http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S06460/2019/08/24/advanced
     
  27. Class 170101

    Class 170101 Established Member

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    Grand Central could have shared the paths by attaching / detaching at Doncaster with Hull Trains.
     
  28. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

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    Which they have done in the past. I'm not sure you would anything coupled to a Hull Trains unit at the moment though, big potential to catch something nasty!
     
  29. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm not sure they could. They haven't bid for access rights to St Pancras. But in any event they seemingly prefer to completely shut up shop when Kings Cross is closed (note that they're not evening running Sunderland - York/Bradford - Doncaster which they could easily do).
     
  30. Dr Hoo

    Dr Hoo Established Member

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    An operator that generally has a good reputation in passenger surveys might well take the view that encouraging passengers (who would presumably have to hold inter-available tickets of which it would only keep a small proportion of the revenue) to travel on a day when they were bound to experience multiple changes, diversions, extended journey times, crowding, etc. was not a good idea.
     

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