ECML Enhancements including Huntingdon-Peterborough 4-tracking

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PhilipW

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Here are the list of ECML enhancements with the 4-tracking from Huntingdon to Fletton and the Werrington Junction flyover as the major items.


Network Rail said:
Potential initiatives for CP5

The ongoing development work will determine the most cost effective programme of
infrastructure works to robustly deliver an appropriate train service specification. However, as
part of the optioneering process, Network Rail is currently examining the following schemes that
have been identified through the RUS process, as it is anticipated that most will be identified as
being required to provide the outputs:

  •  capacity relief Huntingdon North Junction – Fletton Junction which may entail 4-tracking for part or all of the distance;
  •  Peterborough station improvements;
  •  grade separated junction or other suitable means to allow freight trains from / to the March direction to access / egress the GN / GE joint line at Peterborough independently of the ECML up and down fast lines;
  •  replacement of the existing flat crossing at Newark of the ECML and the Nottingham – Lincoln lines with grade separation;
  •  Doncaster station area improvements;
  •  Darlington station improvements;
  •  Ferryhill – Newcastle capacity enhancement; and
  •  Doncaster – Wakefield Westgate additional capacity.
Source: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=30064778689


Looks good to me. Sadly no mention of any scheme to eliminate the Newark flat crossing
 
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cle

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Wonder if the last one will enable speeds over 125mph to be enabled?

Does this:

Peterborough Down LDHS call time reduction,

refer to dwell time?
 

Failed Unit

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Here are the list of ECML enhancements with the 4-tracking from Huntingdon to Fletton and the Werrington Junction flyover as the major items.

 Stevenage Down platform addition,
 Huntingdon – Fletton capacity enhancement (four track),
 Peterborough Down LDHS call time reduction,
 Peterborough grade separation for access to GE/GN line,
 Doncaster bay platform and track capacity, and
 ERTMS signalling system fitted on the south end of the East Coast Main Line


Looks good to me. Sadly no mention of any scheme to eliminate the Newark flat crossing

I think that will be in a later CP {as in after 2020}, considering it wasn't renewed that long ago. I think its life will be about 2025. Saying that getting the freight sent around Lincoln may help provide paths on the main ECML.
 
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swt_passenger

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What source is it you are quoting please?

Newark Flat Crossing removal wasn't proposed for CP5 - In the ECML 2016 capacity report NR explain that they don't need it yet, unless the E/W crossing traffic increases significantly...

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't know what LDHS means. Perhaps someone could enlighten us ?

Long Distance High Speed - basically 'Intercity' services to you or I
 
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TheBigD

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Wonder if the last one will enable speeds over 125mph to be enabled?

Does this:

Peterborough Down LDHS call time reduction,

refer to dwell time?

No. By extending the current platform 4 out to the down fast trains can approach/depart quicker. Was part of the original proposals for Peterborough that were in Modern Railways a while back, along with some changes to the signalling to eliminate the "conditional double red" signalling (I think!).
 

DaveNewcastle

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Here is the ECML aspiration from September 2011's "Definition of proposed CP5 enhancements" :-
Potential initiatives for CP5

The ongoing development work will determine the most cost effective programme of
infrastructure works to robustly deliver an appropriate train service specification. However, as
part of the optioneering process, Network Rail is currently examining the following schemes that
have been identified through the RUS process, as it is anticipated that most will be identified as
being required to provide the outputs:

  •  capacity relief Huntingdon North Junction – Fletton Junction which may entail 4-tracking for part or all of the distance;
  •  Peterborough station improvements;
  •  grade separated junction or other suitable means to allow freight trains from / to the March direction to access / egress the GN / GE joint line at Peterborough independently of the ECML up and down fast lines;
  •  replacement of the existing flat crossing at Newark of the ECML and the Nottingham – Lincoln lines with grade separation;
  •  Doncaster station area improvements;
  •  Darlington station improvements;
  •  Ferryhill – Newcastle capacity enhancement; and
  •  Doncaster – Wakefield Westgate additional capacity.

Source: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=30064778689
 
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D365

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Before anyone makes a mistake again, the line between Huntingdon and Peterborough is not two-track but three-track; two up and one down. It would be quite difficult to add another track though...

I believe some of the works will tie in with Thameslink, when the Canal Tunnels are put into use. Hitchin flyover has been approved, I believe. Overall, I am looking forward to seeing the improvements along the ECML!
 

JohnCarlson

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Before anyone makes a mistake again, the line between Huntingdon and Peterborough is not two-track but three-track; two up and one down. It would be quite difficult to add another track though...

I believe some of the works will tie in with Thameslink, when the Canal Tunnels are put into use. Hitchin flyover has been approved, I believe. Overall, I am looking forward to seeing the improvements along the ECML!


I think much of the Hitchin flyover is already built.:D

John
 

David Goddard

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So just as there has been a significant increase in the number of trains passing through Peterborough non stop, we are now about to have platforms on both fast lines.
The new P3 on the Up Fast is part of the previously announced plans, while the plans talked about here see P4 widened to serve the Down Fast.
This will create a station with two super wide island platforms (2/3 and 4/5), which is jsut as well if services will continue to pass through non stop.
 

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43106

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If the BBC website is to be believed, the line from Neville Hill to Hambledon Junction is also to be electrified. I presume this is to allow Kings Cross - Skipton/Bradford services to be direct services, avoiding reversing at Leeds.
 

lancastrian

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Before anyone makes a mistake again, the line between Huntingdon and Peterborough is not two-track but three-track; two up and one down. It would be quite difficult to add another track though...

I believe some of the works will tie in with Thameslink, when the Canal Tunnels are put into use. Hitchin flyover has been approved, I believe. Overall, I am looking forward to seeing the improvements along the ECML!

I was under the impression that before Electrification that the whole route from Huntingdon to Peterborough was four track, if that is the case, how difficult can it be to replace the missing tracks, unless some complete pillock agreed to the masts being placed in the four foot of the removed lines. If this is the case, then the person who agreed to it, needs to be shown up for the daft acceptance of the planned decline that previous governements of both persuasions forced onto BR.

When will our elected 'representatives' stop looking to the short term fix on the railways and at least consider that some time in the near future, what they are removing may be needed to be put back.
 

43106

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If the BBC website is to be believed, the line from Neville Hill to Hambledon Junction is also to be electrified. I presume this is to allow Kings Cross - Skipton/Bradford services to be direct services, avoiding reversing at Leeds.

It would appear that I didn't get it right. The line from Leeds to SELBY is to be wired up, which doesn't make sense to me, as very little terminates at Selby, and there's no other OHLE there. Will there be any OHLE coonections to the ECML in the Selby area? (inviting comments like "If not, why not?")
 

JohnCarlson

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I was under the impression that before Electrification that the whole route from Huntingdon to Peterborough was four track, if that is the case, how difficult can it be to replace the missing tracks, unless some complete pillock agreed to the masts being placed in the four foot of the removed lines. If this is the case, then the person who agreed to it, needs to be shown up for the daft acceptance of the planned decline that previous governements of both persuasions forced onto BR.

When will our elected 'representatives' stop looking to the short term fix on the railways and at least consider that some time in the near future, what they are removing may be needed to be put back.


Unfortunately some road bridges have been built which only have space for two tracks. Not an expert but from observation I would think land might need to bought and or masts moved.

John
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It would appear that I didn't get it right. The line from Leeds to SELBY is to be wired up, which doesn't make sense to me, as very little terminates at Selby, and there's no other OHLE there. Will there be any OHLE coonections to the ECML in the Selby area? (inviting comments like "If not, why not?")

They might be waiting for control period 6 to continue on to hull. :D
 

LE Greys

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Hooray! :D We are finally getting some of the upgrade it was suggested might happen in the 1990s. Nothing at Welwyn (of course) and no mention of a platform on the up side at Darlington, but we're getting some of it. The best way to handle access to the GE side at Ely would be a flyover at Werrington plus reinstatement of the down slow from Helpston to Peterborough, but just the flyover would work as well. This would get trains from Lincoln and the up slow (so Grantham-Ely) onto the up Stamford without crossing the fasts. The up Stamford is currently not wired, doing that would add flexibility fairly cheaply. At Doncaster, Marshgate Junction needs looking at, and an extra island platform on the Plant side of the station might solve some of the problems, but not Sheffield-Hull trains crossing the fasts. A flyover further south, or even just wiring the Lincoln flyover, would be very helpful if it kept up Leeds trains off the down main.
 

Bald Rick

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I was under the impression that before Electrification that the whole route from Huntingdon to Peterborough was four track, if that is the case, how difficult can it be to replace the missing tracks, unless some complete pillock agreed to the masts being placed in the four foot of the removed lines. If this is the case, then the person who agreed to it, needs to be shown up for the daft acceptance of the planned decline that previous governements of both persuasions forced onto BR.

When will our elected 'representatives' stop looking to the short term fix on the railways and at least consider that some time in the near future, what they are removing may be needed to be put back.

The 'complete pillock' who agreed to it happens to be one of the finest Engineering / Project directors the railway ever saw. And without taking difficult decisions like this, the ECML would not have been electrified in the 1980s.

Bear in mind that at the time ECML electrification was planned (30 years ago) there was absolutely no need for more than the tracks then provided, and no realistic proposition of anywhere near the amount of growth we have seen in the past decade. So why would anyone have taken a different decision ?
 

Zoe

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I was under the impression that before Electrification that the whole route from Huntingdon to Peterborough was four track, if that is the case, how difficult can it be to replace the missing tracks, unless some complete pillock agreed to the masts being placed in the four foot of the removed lines. If this is the case, then the person who agreed to it, needs to be shown up for the daft acceptance of the planned decline that previous governements of both persuasions forced onto BR.
Looking at the 1960 Sectional Appendix it was was three tracks from Huntingdon to Sukeley, four tracks from Stukely to Connington South, three tracks from Connington South to Holme, two tracks from Holme to Yaxley and four tracks from Yaxley to Peterborough.
 
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JohnCarlson

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The 'complete pillock' who agreed to it happens to be one of the finest Engineering / Project directors the railway ever saw. And without taking difficult decisions like this, the ECML would not have been electrified in the 1980s.

Bear in mind that at the time ECML electrification was planned (30 years ago) there was absolutely no need for more than the tracks then provided, and no realistic proposition of anywhere near the amount of growth we have seen in the past decade. So why would anyone have taken a different decision ?

May be of interest

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/BRB_ECMLCompletion1992.pdf

John
 

LE Greys

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The 'complete pillock' who agreed to it happens to be one of the finest Engineering / Project directors the railway ever saw. And without taking difficult decisions like this, the ECML would not have been electrified in the 1980s.

Bear in mind that at the time ECML electrification was planned (30 years ago) there was absolutely no need for more than the tracks then provided, and no realistic proposition of anywhere near the amount of growth we have seen in the past decade. So why would anyone have taken a different decision ?

I'm not sure Chris Garnett was his biggest fan, in fact he complained about it to such an extent that there were even reports that GNER wanted to de-electrify the line. Looking in the long-term, it was yet another railway compromise that we could have done without, but in the short-term it delivered an electrified railway early that was at the time the finest in the country. There were suggestions that the wires might only reach Newcastle, but it's possible that measures like this got them all the way to Edinburgh, otherwise we might have been swapping 91s for 50s to this day - cascaded 50s were one suggested loco for the diesel sections - or retained twice the number of HSTs that we actually did.
 

Bald Rick

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Cracking document. And superb quote from Mr Heath:

"I say this advisedly because when Nicholas Ridley formally authorised the scheme on July 27th 1984, the Board had not actually made an investment submission - it had just sent across the appraisal! (A retrospective submission had to be hastily prepared and passed through the Investment Committee at its 1st October XI--":-- '"

plus ca change
 

LE Greys

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tbtc

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It would appear that I didn't get it right. The line from Leeds to SELBY is to be wired up, which doesn't make sense to me, as very little terminates at Selby, and there's no other OHLE there. Will there be any OHLE coonections to the ECML in the Selby area? (inviting comments like "If not, why not?")

Half of the Leeds - Selby trains run on to Hull, the other half terminate there.

Plus wiring to Selby allows the GNER "Horseshoe" curve at Hambleton - allowing London - Doncaster - Garforth - Leeds - Wakefield - Doncaster - London services to operate without reversal.

Hull will happen, in the way that Doncaster - Sheffield will happen. But as there's no way they can get wired this decade then they aren't being announced yet.
 

LE Greys

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Thanks, found this to be very interesting :)

As to new track being relayed, can't work be done so all that's basically done is new track bed being built by building up the embankments?

Surely that's the best way of keeping the lines open AND delivering these improvements?

They had to rebuilt the Holme Fen embankment anyway, it retained its GNR structure of wooden posts and animal skins (yes, really) until then. And presumably they decided that the new one would only be wide enough for double-track, not predicting the massive rise in demand.
 

JohnCarlson

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Half of the Leeds - Selby trains run on to Hull, the other half terminate there.

Plus wiring to Selby allows the GNER "Horseshoe" curve at Hambleton - allowing London - Doncaster - Garforth - Leeds - Wakefield - Doncaster - London services to operate without reversal.

Hull will happen, in the way that Doncaster - Sheffield will happen. But as there's no way they can get wired this decade then they aren't being announced yet.

Isn't what we have just heard is going to happen by 2019 a lot of electrification. they cant do everything at once. :)

John
 

IanXC

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It would appear that I didn't get it right. The line from Leeds to SELBY is to be wired up, which doesn't make sense to me, as very little terminates at Selby, and there's no other OHLE there. Will there be any OHLE coonections to the ECML in the Selby area? (inviting comments like "If not, why not?")

Half of the Leeds - Selby trains run on to Hull, the other half terminate there.

Plus wiring to Selby allows the GNER "Horseshoe" curve at Hambleton - allowing London - Doncaster - Garforth - Leeds - Wakefield - Doncaster - London services to operate without reversal.

Hull will happen, in the way that Doncaster - Sheffield will happen. But as there's no way they can get wired this decade then they aren't being announced yet.

I live in hope that the detailed analysis of costs makes Hull possible. I'm part way through listing all of the overbridges between Hull and Doncaster via Selby, but its clear there are very, very few which do not clearly already provide the necessary clearances. Hence cost should be much lower "per electrified mile" than elsewhere.
 

tbtc

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Isn't what we have just heard is going to happen by 2019 a lot of electrification. they cant do everything at once. :)

John

They'll be doing well to get everything announced electrified by 2019 without having time to tackle "gaps" like Hull - I'm confident of the future seeing these "gaps" sorted out though - the great thing about electrification is that every bit you do improves the case for doing the next bit - I'll be impressed if London to Swansea/ Sheffield is all sorted by the end of the decade, don't want to sound greedy and demand everything is done in the next five years
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I live in hope that the detailed analysis of costs makes Hull possible. I'm part way through listing all of the overbridges between Hull and Doncaster via Selby, but its clear there are very, very few which do not clearly already provide the necessary clearances. Hence cost should be much lower "per electrified mile" than elsewhere.

It's pretty flat and pretty straight - as long as you can sort out the Selby swing bridge (?) it should be fairly uncomplicated.
 
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