ECML fare war woes

[mikeg]

Hi, on Sunday as usual I bought my usual (at the moment) ticket from the TVM at Thirsk Station. The ticket I bought was a CDR from Thirsk to York for £10 routed Tpe only . However it later transpired that a cheaper CBA fare has been introduced only for sale on Saturdays and Sundays. This was not evident from the first screen of tickets on the TVM and not knowing about its existence I didn't look for it.
It's curious they hide the i1 restricted CDRs until 0930 when the first departure on which they are valid is 0933 giving pax little time to buy these tickets but don't hide overpriced tickets nobody would reasonably want.

 

[HughT]

I like your ironic use of "curious"! Until this sort of thing is ruled to be a breach of consumer trading legislation, it will surely persist. You will only occupy the seat once on that journey, so why not make as much profit on it as possible (that's a rhetorical question!)...

 

[AY1975]

Hi, on Sunday as usual I bought my usual (at the moment) ticket from the TVM at Thirsk Station. The ticket I bought was a CDR from Thirsk to York for £10 routed Tpe only . However it later transpired that a cheaper CBA fare has been introduced only for sale on Saturdays and Sundays. This was not evident from the first screen of tickets on the TVM and not knowing about its existence I didn't look for it.
It's curious they hide the i1 restricted CDRs until 0930 when the first departure on which they are valid is 0933 giving pax little time to buy these tickets but don't hide overpriced tickets nobody would reasonably want.

What does CBA stand for?

The TPE website quotes a Thirsk-York Super Off-Peak Day Return for £9.30, which would appear to be valid for all operators, and a Grand Central-only Anytime Return for £7.50.

I can't find any reference to the £10 fare to which you refer on the TPE website. There don't appear to be any Thirsk-York returns valid for return travel at a later date (as you'd expect for a journey of that sort of distance) nor to the CBA fare - maybe you can't buy that one online, only from ticket offices or TVMs?

 

[swt_passenger]

What does CBA stand for?

The TPE website quotes a Thirsk-York Super Off-Peak Day Return for £9.30, which would appear to be valid for all operators, and a Grand Central-only Anytime Return for £7.50.

I can't find any reference to the £10 fare to which you refer on the TPE website. There don't appear to be any Thirsk-York returns valid for return travel at a later date (as you'd expect for a journey of that sort of distance) nor to the CBA fare - maybe you can't buy that one online, only from ticket offices or TVMs?

BRFares shows both £10.00 offpeak day and £9.30 super offpeak day fares, both TPE only, but I can’t see any difference in the restrictions. Maybe someone else can explain why...

http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=THI&dest=YRK

 

[30907]

BRFares shows both £10.00 offpeak day and £9.30 super offpeak day fares, both TPE only, but I can’t see any difference in the restrictions. Maybe someone else can explain why...

http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=THI&dest=YRK

It is valid Saturdays and Sundays only (but has a restriction that applies SX, which will confuse readers of BRFares.
A TVM ought simply to show one or the other, surely? After all, if it is intelligent enough to hide 0930-restricted tickets, it should manage the day of the week.

 

[hkstudent]

Hi, on Sunday as usual I bought my usual (at the moment) ticket from the TVM at Thirsk Station. The ticket I bought was a CDR from Thirsk to York for £10 routed Tpe only . However it later transpired that a cheaper CBA fare has been introduced only for sale on Saturdays and Sundays. This was not evident from the first screen of tickets on the TVM and not knowing about its existence I didn't look for it.
It's curious they hide the i1 restricted CDRs until 0930 when the first departure on which they are valid is 0933 giving pax little time to buy these tickets but don't hide overpriced tickets nobody would reasonably want.

It's really sad that it didn't offer the best priced ticket.
Does TVM allows people to choose departure time so that to allow people to find cheaper fares?

 

[Haywain]

I would have suggested that the problem was that TPE haven't informed other TOCs about the new fares they've introduced, but as they run Thirsk station and the TVMs there is little excuse for this. You could complain if you see it as being worth the effort for 70p but it would be understandable if you feel it isn't worth it.

 

[yorkie]

Hi, on Sunday as usual I bought my usual (at the moment) ticket from the TVM at Thirsk Station. The ticket I bought was a CDR from Thirsk to York for £10 routed Tpe only . However it later transpired that a cheaper CBA fare has been introduced only for sale on Saturdays and Sundays. This was not evident from the first screen of tickets on the TVM and not knowing about its existence I didn't look for it.
It's curious they hide the i1 restricted CDRs until 0930 when the first departure on which they are valid is 0933 giving pax little time to buy these tickets but don't hide overpriced tickets nobody would reasonably want.

If the TVM did not make a cheaper option clear, you can get a replacement ticket and a full refund of the original from the retailer, or obtain a refund of the difference.

If the retailer is in breach of consumer law then the ORR can be informed, but you may wish to give them the opportunity to make appropriate reassurances before reporting them

https://orr.gov.uk/rail/consumers/what-we-do-for-consumers/ticket-machines

https://www.tpexpress.co.uk/help/contact-us/price-promise

...If you discover you could have bought a cheaper product for the identical journey, you may be entitled to a refund to the value of the difference in cost...

I like your ironic use of "curious"! Until this sort of thing is ruled to be a breach of consumer trading legislation, it will surely persist....

There are loads of breaches of consumer law occurring regularly on the railways which I am aware of, but ORR does not do much enforcement action.

https://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pd...ding-information-to-passengers-2018-03-29.pdf

... it is important that all parties ... ensure that they are providing consumers with the information that is material to their decision for example, to buy a ticket or exercise their rights, and to do so in a way that is clear, unambiguous, and timely...

I am aware of numerous breaches of this. I do not know for certain if the OP experienced a breach but, based on what has been posted, it sounds likely that these TVMs are programmed in a way that breaches of consumer legislation, possibly for multiple reasons.

 

[aelius]

If you use the TPE app you get different fares depending on whether you specify “Return” or “Open Return”. Not unexpected because you expect advance tickets might be cheaper, but actually these tickets may prove cheaper and are only revealed if you choose “Open Return”.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Some TVM suppliers take longer than others to add new ticket types to the database.

 

[mikeg]

It seems the super off peak ticket is now valid on every day of the week. So far so good. But the TVM at Thirsk doesn't show it! In any other business you wouldn't get away with overcharging in this manner but tpe seem to think it acceptable. To clarify it doesn't show on weekdays or weekends. I'm aware of the TVM price guarantee but how many people are unwittingly overcharged?

 

[yorkie]

It seems the super off peak ticket is now valid on every day of the week. So far so good. But the TVM at Thirsk doesn't show it! In any other business you wouldn't get away with overcharging in this manner but tpe seem to think it acceptable. To clarify it doesn't show on weekdays or weekends. I'm aware of the TVM price guarantee but how many people are unwittingly overcharged?

Are there any notices on the TVM stating the full range may not be available and advising people to buy on board if the ticket office is closed?

If not, report a breach of consumer law to the ORR.

 

[mikeg]

Hi yorkie there was and is no such notice. I have emailed tpe and got a reply back that completely ignored the nature of my complaint. Today the ticket office was closed due to an electrical fault. The TVM still isn't offering the relevant tickets.

How would I go about reporting this to the ORR? I thought they didn't deal directly with consumer complaints? In the end had no problem paying cash on the train but had I had no cash on me why should my rights be reduced?

 

[furlong]

Some TVM suppliers take longer than others to add new ticket types to the database.

Many years in the case of GWR's suppliers, that still don't offer many of SWR's super off peak fares, years and years after they were introduced! (GWR deserves to face prosecution for this continuing appalling lack of professional diligence IMHO.)