ECML services terminating at Glasgow Queen Street

43096

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The Caledonian sleeper did on a couple of occasions last year use Queen Street, a CL 90 came into platform 7 which after years of being so associated with Central was an unusual sight. This I believe was due to engineering work on the WCML.
I know what you mean, but to be pedantic the sleeper uses Queen Street daily in normal times, as the Fort William portion goes via Queen St Low Level.
 
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route101

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Remember going on via the EMCL to London a few times. 1200 from Glasgow Central. I did take the LNER 0648 last week for a change.
 

GarethW

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Is that the evening special fare, equivalent to the 69p? because the normal day return fare in 1974 was £1.10. If the latter, it's a remarkable consistency.

Regarding the early advance purchase fare from London to Scotland in 1972, it was apparently the Economy Return, available midweek days only, buy at least one week ahead. I think it was half fare. If you had a student railcard, which covered everything, that made it just quarter normal fare.
Nope the standard off peak day return.
 

hexagon789

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But when it was a choice between an IC225 on the ECML or a something old and unreliable on the WCML... I know which one we preferred...
The 87s and Mk3s weren't exactly "old" when the 225s came out. The 87s were also pretty reliable, likely more so than the 91s and the Mk3s definitely ride better than the Mk4s even after the numerous modifications BR tried to cure that issue without success.

Don't get me wrong I like IC225s, but I don't think they were really any better than 87s on Mk3 stock.
 

hexagon789

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Remember going on via the EMCL to London a few times. 1200 from Glasgow Central. I did take the LNER 0648 last week for a change.
Used GNER to get to York numerous times from GLC. Yes, XC still offer direct services but I'm pretty sure they are much slower than the GNER King's Cross services were; I can distinctly remember passing Darlington non-stop at least once for example.
 

route101

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Used GNER to get to York numerous times from GLC. Yes, XC still offer direct services but I'm pretty sure they are much slower than the GNER King's Cross services were; I can distinctly remember passing Darlington non-stop at least once for example.
I hardly use XC from Glasgow , only to Edinburgh or XC HST at night. Cheaper to change onto LNER.
 

route101

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Used GNER to get to York numerous times from GLC. Yes, XC still offer direct services but I'm pretty sure they are much slower than the GNER King's Cross services were; I can distinctly remember passing Darlington non-stop at least once for example.
I hardly use XC from Glasgow , only to Edinburgh or XC HST at night. Cheaper to change onto LNER.
 

55002

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Looking at old ECML WTT, in 1981 was 1E28 0810 to Scarborough (0808 in 1982, 0820 1983) and 1S51 1508 return (1512 in 1982, 1508 again in 1983) Loco hauled.

Looks like 1983 the HST started 1E09 0930 from GLQ into KGX 1531, return was 1S32 1600 from KGX. Sunday was 1E05 0945 From GLQ, return 1S32 1600 from KGX.

Not got the 1984 WTT but in 1985 were 2 southbound Workings. 1E32 0800 from GLQ into KGX 1402 and 1E05 0830 from GLQ into KGX 1422 SX, but No northbound working. On Sundays was 1S20 1000 from KGX and 1E11 1015 from Queen St into KgX 1720. No Scarborough either in 1985.

in 1986 the Scarborough was a HST 1E28 0825 from Queen St, 1S51 1347 from Scarborough SO. 1E36 0800 from GLQ into KgX 1401, return was 1S33 1700 from KGX. Sundays was 1E11 1015 from GLQ into KGX 1714 and 1E15 1315 from GLQ into KGX 2008. Only 1S33 1700 from KGX Northbound.

in 1987 (last WTT I have) Scarborough was 1E28 0825 from GLQ returning as 1S51 1333 to GLQ. 1E01 0620 from GLQ into KGX 1224, and 1E03 0730 from GLQ into KGX 1330. 1S15 1235 SO from KGX and 1S33 1700 from KGX SX And SuO.
 

CW2

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From memory, I believe the Glasgow - Scarborough services had no public stop at York, and hence reversed / re-engined on the middle roads, which were done away with under electrification. Can anybody confirm my memory please?
In principle it was supposed to be one set of stock out and back from Glasgow, but during the 1979 Penmanshiel collapse the diversion via Carlisle added so much time that a second rake of stock had to be provided, the northbound and southbound trains passing each other at York.
 

Ken H

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I understood that increased aberdeen services, the new KX - Inverness service and the extensions to Glasgow were to get Scotrail stock into the depot earlier, especially Cl47/4 -Mk 3 push pull sets. The HST sets had finished there Edinburgh - London work so the marginal time running on in Scotland didnt take stock from the core route.
Scotland got more through running to the East Coast and East Cost probably got revenue from the through trains.
 

alistairlees

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From memory, I believe the Glasgow - Scarborough services had no public stop at York, and hence reversed / re-engined on the middle roads, which were done away with under electrification. Can anybody confirm my memory please?
Correct, though sometimes I think it did use (the then) platform 9.
 
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CW2

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I understood that increased aberdeen services, the new KX - Inverness service and the extensions to Glasgow were to get Scotrail stock into the depot earlier, especially Cl47/4 -Mk 3 push pull sets. The HST sets had finished there Edinburgh - London work so the marginal time running on in Scotland didnt take stock from the core route.
Scotland got more through running to the East Coast and East Cost probably got revenue from the through trains.
There may be some truth in this, but I don't think it was the main driver of change.
The 12:00 KX - Inverness puts the train into Edinburgh around 17:00, so perfectly capable of doing another run back to London if terminating there. Maybe running the Highland Chieftain enabled withdrawal of the Clansman? Did they overlap for a period?
There have always been daytime trains KX - Aberdeen so replacing the loco-hauled services with HSTs seems logical.
 

Ken H

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There may be some truth in this, but I don't think it was the main driver of change.
The 12:00 KX - Inverness puts the train into Edinburgh around 17:00, so perfectly capable of doing another run back to London if terminating there. Maybe running the Highland Chieftain enabled withdrawal of the Clansman? Did they overlap for a period?
There have always been daytime trains KX - Aberdeen so replacing the loco-hauled services with HSTs seems logical.
Think Aberdeen got more KX services at this time. Up from 2 to 5 I think
HST's to Aberdeen also used differntial speed limits so were quicker than the loco hauled scottish domestic services.
 

hexagon789

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HST's to Aberdeen also used differntial speed limits so were quicker than the loco hauled scottish domestic services.
Only initially, once the push-pull operations were extended to cover Edinburgh-Aberdeen not so much.

Though I don't doubt the HSTs would have performed better in the sense of how easily they could attain and maintain speeds
 

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