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ECML York - Darlington query

Halifaxlad

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I was watching a PWI presentation the otherday on NPR and it touched upon running services on the ECML between York and Darlington to Newcastle. It touched upon rerouting freight services away from this section. Now Im curious...

just how full is this stretch of line ?

Also do Transpennine fast services use the slow or fast lines ?

Its been a while since Ive travelled on this bit and I just cant remeber.
 
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ainsworth74

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just how full is this stretch of line ?
South of Northallerton not very, north of Northallerton where it goes down to tracks very. Particularly if you want to thread express passenger services with 60mph freight.
 

JordR

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So if north of Northallerton is the capacity constraint, the diversion being mentioned will be via Eaglescliffe and Stillington to get back on the ECML at Ferryhill or via the Durham Coast to get back on at Newcastle?
 

Darandio

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Both - obviously anything stopping at Thirsk needs to use the slows; anything not stopping there generally uses the fasts

Often only in part though depending on the service though, they'll often use the fasts either side of Thirsk. The only restriction where they can't for a lengthy section is stopping southbound as they have to join the slows at Northallerton.
 

D1537

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Often only in part though depending on the service though, they'll often use the fasts either side of Thirsk. The only restriction where they can't for a lengthy section is stopping southbound as they have to join the slows at Northallerton.
From memory all the services that stop at Thirsk are booked on the fasts south of there unless - in the case of a few 100mph Saltburns - they're booked to be overtaken by something (or they're running out of course). There might be the odd one that isn't, but my experience is that they all do.
 

ainsworth74

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So if north of Northallerton is the capacity constraint, the diversion being mentioned will be via Eaglescliffe and Stillington to get back on the ECML at Ferryhill or via the Durham Coast to get back on at Newcastle?
Pretty much! They use either I've not detected any particularly rhyme to it but I imagine the timetable planners have some logic to how they're deciding what goes where.

Broadly Network Rail want to try and "four track" the railway between Northallerton and Newcastle by using alternative routes. With the alternatives becoming the "slow" lines for the ECML and the passenger traffic remaining concentrated via Durham. It's why their route utilisation study (or whatever it was called) wanted to explore re-opening, at least in part, the Leamside line. To enhance freight capacity. It's also why there's been a program over hte last half decade (or so) to clear the existing route via Yarm and then Stillington/Durham Coast to take larger container traffic and whatnot.

It's quite a neat idea really. Seeing as actually four tracking Northallerton to Newcastle would be horrendously complicated and expensive! Doing it this way gains most of the benefits for a fraction of the cost.
Often only in part though depending on the service though, they'll often use the fasts either side of Thirsk. The only restriction where they can't for a lengthy section is stopping southbound as they have to join the slows at Northallerton.
Yes it's always felt like a bit of an oversight to me that there isn't a crossing just north of Thirsk to allow a southbound to use the fasts from Northallerton and just dip onto the slows to call at Thirsk.
 

SteveM70

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A pair of platforms on the Northallerton avoider for anything heading to/from Yarm would help with capacity and be (relatively) inexpensive
 

Class 170101

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Broadly Network Rail want to try and "four track" the railway between Northallerton and Newcastle by using alternative routes. With the alternatives becoming the "slow" lines for the ECML and the passenger traffic remaining concentrated via Durham. It's why their route utilisation study (or whatever it was called) wanted to explore re-opening, at least in part, the Leamside line. To enhance freight capacity. It's also why there's been a program over hte last half decade (or so) to clear the existing route via Yarm and then Stillington/Durham Coast to take larger container traffic and whatnot.

It's quite a neat idea really. Seeing as actually four tracking Northallerton to Newcastle would be horrendously complicated and expensive! Doing it this way gains most of the benefits for a fraction of the cost.
Effectively what they have doen with the ECMl between Peterborough and Doncaster utilising the GE / GN Joint Line vice the ECML for freight.
 

D1537

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A pair of platforms on the Northallerton avoider for anything heading to/from Yarm would help with capacity and be (relatively) inexpensive
However, you'd have issues with interchange between the stations - especially for accessibility - because you'd need to build it somewhere north of Ainderby Road (as there are houses backing onto the line from there southbound until the line splits). You'd only be able to have a single platform as well, for the same reason.
 

Spaceflower

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A single platform on the opposite side of the station car park would facilitate a service running down the Durham coast that was actually useful for something other than commuting to Newcastle two days a week.
It would also improve connectivity across Teesside (Stockton, etc).

But it costs one council a little and benefits others a lot. ????
 
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swt_passenger

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A pair of platforms on the Northallerton avoider for anything heading to/from Yarm would help with capacity and be (relatively) inexpensive
AIUI running all the Teeside passenger services via the avoiding lines was ruled out by NR because of ‘level crossings’. Their relatively gold plated plans even proposed a down direction flyover north of the station.

There was a previous thread about Northallerton in 2022, it can be found here:

The proposed layout was posted in 2020 here:
 
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Spaceflower

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They’ve built a northern bypass which bridges the Teesside line. It’s a lot less direct for through traffic though. I’m guessing it was designed to cope with additional housing rather than any consideration of supporting rail enhancements. I’m guessing the latter will probably have been considered only in the context of minimising negative impacts. That probably means that it’s now less likely to happen.

(A lot of guesses there…..)

I’m a bit of a pessimist. My only limited experience of planning was a bit of a bad experience.
 
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D1537

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A single platform on the opposite side of the station car park would facilitate a service running down the Durham coast that was actually useful for something other than commuting to Newcastle two days a week.
It would also improve connectivity across Teesside (Stockton, etc).

But it costs one council a little and benefits others a lot. ????
The problem is that you would almost certainly have to take part of the car park, which is pretty much at full capacity during the week.
 

vic-rijrode

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...Broadly Network Rail want to try and "four track" the railway between Northallerton and Newcastle by using alternative routes. With the alternatives becoming the "slow" lines for the ECML and the passenger traffic remaining concentrated via Durham. It's why their route utilisation study (or whatever it was called) wanted to explore re-opening, at least in part, the Leamside line...


I can't see what part of the Leamside line could be reopened bearing in mind that it is only at the two extremities (i.e. Pelaw and Ferryhill) that it connects with existing track.

Apart from the not inconsiderable task of clearing the vegetation (and detritus) that has sprung up along it, there appears to be at least one large (and presumably expensive) issue with reopening it, at Washington. The A1290 (the link road from the A19 past Nissan to Washington, crosses the old formation on the level with a couple of roundabouts pretty close by. A road bridge would need to be built (I assume a new level crossing would be frowned on) with maybe at least one of the roundabouts moved (or removed).

There are also "level crossings" at Follingsby Lane between Washington and Pelaw, and Fencehouses which would need to be dealt with. All other road crossings appear to be under- and over-bridges which would need fettling. The formation is also in a worse state than the Bicester to Bletchley line was. So it's perhaps not quite as cheap as initially appears (but still cheaper than alternatives)

Of course, should the Metro extension from South Hylton, across the Victoria Bridge, through Washington and north to Pelaw ever come to fruition, then interaction with a heavily used freight corridor would be interesting. (This situation is catered for already on the Sunderland to Pelaw line which is used by Grand Central, Northern, Freight and Metro - uniquely perhaps in the UK - so it can be done, although the freight traffic is not perhaps as heavy there as would be on a reopened Leamside line).
 

Crossover

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Yes it's always felt like a bit of an oversight to me that there isn't a crossing just north of Thirsk to allow a southbound to use the fasts from Northallerton and just dip onto the slows to call at Thirsk.
I hadn't realised this until a short while ago to be honest! It seems like the "missing piece of the jigsaw" given you can cross at any of other 3 "corners" of Thirsk station
 

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