nath9425
Member
Sorry If ive asked this before but is there a Detailed route map of every station on the route because I keep stopping at the wrong station!
Thanks
Nath
Thanks
Nath
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Edinburgh - Aberdeen
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pedned
Member
Not that i am aware of.
If i had come across one i would have it by now.
I have the same problem with this route.
Means its a non-fictional route, maybee you could try national rail.
I'll give them ago myself.
Edit ***
I've emailed both GNER and Scot rail to see if any of them has a route map
If i had come across one i would have it by now.
I have the same problem with this route.
Means its a non-fictional route, maybee you could try national rail.
I'll give them ago myself.
Edit ***
I've emailed both GNER and Scot rail to see if any of them has a route map
Jordy
Established Member
nath9425
Member
Yes please just the names of the stations thats all! All stations please!
pedned
Member
that looks very similar to the map that comes with NWM
and yes its a very good idea. :thumbrig:
cheers
Jamie Course
and yes its a very good idea. :thumbrig:
cheers
Jamie Course
HI,
I have been working on my own 'train' and timetable for Edinburgh-Aberdeen, mainly a freight working (Class66) but have also done a route/timetable for the HST, which includes a bmp timetable that shows all the stations and most of the IBS and sidings that I know of. Here is the Timetable image, but please don't use it 'officially' for any Edinburgh-Aberdeen route as it is not cleared by Don Clarke, this is just for my own enjoyment but hope the freight' route will be accepted by Don once I have it edited properly. I am still having trouble with splitting two route files and keeping the latest dual-speed signs showing. However, the timetable here will give you a good idea of all the station stops as they are in 'bold' while the rest are in 'grey'. Hope this helps you to learn the route better.
There is one obvious typo in that it shows 'Gyle' stn as 'Argyl'. I shall change that eventually.
Cheers.
BillEWS.
N.B. Please note that I have made the text corrections to the above bmp file since first sending up this thread.
I have been working on my own 'train' and timetable for Edinburgh-Aberdeen, mainly a freight working (Class66) but have also done a route/timetable for the HST, which includes a bmp timetable that shows all the stations and most of the IBS and sidings that I know of. Here is the Timetable image, but please don't use it 'officially' for any Edinburgh-Aberdeen route as it is not cleared by Don Clarke, this is just for my own enjoyment but hope the freight' route will be accepted by Don once I have it edited properly. I am still having trouble with splitting two route files and keeping the latest dual-speed signs showing. However, the timetable here will give you a good idea of all the station stops as they are in 'bold' while the rest are in 'grey'. Hope this helps you to learn the route better.
There is one obvious typo in that it shows 'Gyle' stn as 'Argyl'. I shall change that eventually.
Cheers.
BillEWS.
N.B. Please note that I have made the text corrections to the above bmp file since first sending up this thread.
Jordy
Established Member
It would, that is also made by me
Have done the map, although now Bill EWS has posted his timetable, I may make some alterations (if you dont mind me using the information given on the timetable, Bill EWS!)
Here it is, update later if the above is done (update now done - same link as before)
www.southtpe.co.uk/pix/edin-aberdeen_map.jpeg
Jordy
PS: Bill EWS, I think the station is called South Gyle, not Gyle or Argyle, also I think its Aberdour not Aberlour - great work though!
Tom B
Established Member
- Joined
- 27 Jul 2005
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- 4,602
What program do you use to make those maps Jordy?
Jordy
Established Member
Concept Draw
Have updated the map, same URL as before www.southtpe.co.uk/pix/edin-aberdeen_map.jpeg
(If there are no sidings showing, press F5)
Jordy
Have updated the map, same URL as before www.southtpe.co.uk/pix/edin-aberdeen_map.jpeg
(If there are no sidings showing, press F5)
Jordy
On the reply page scroll down and click on the "Manage Attachments" button. There you can upload the file and it will appear with your post
"I get a message stating that the Doc file is too large for this editor.
On the reply page scroll down and click on the "Manage Attachments" button. There you can upload the file and it will appear with your post
Thanks Coxter. I have given this a try. If it doesn't work first time I shall try again.
I tried splitting the file into two pages but still got the error message that the single file is too big (19.kbs)!
Cheers.
BillEWS
On the reply page scroll down and click on the "Manage Attachments" button. There you can upload the file and it will appear with your post
Thanks Coxter. I have given this a try. If it doesn't work first time I shall try again.
I tried splitting the file into two pages but still got the error message that the single file is too big (19.kbs)!
Cheers.
BillEWS
T
Tom
Guest
Don't think .doc is in the approved list, I'll ask an admin to put it in.
nath9425
Member
Hi Jordy! Thanks for your Diagram this has been very helpful! Nice too see a route with a 'Proper' Diagram!s just hope NWM Will live up to it when the next update is realeased! 
nath9425
Member
Whats IBS Stations???
Hi Nath9425,
An IBS signal (Intermediate Block Signal) is generally placed where old stations or yards used to be, that broke the line up into manageable 'block' sections. When the stations or sidings were closed and the signals removed this would make for rather long sections causing delays and a reduction of service. To avoid this, where it was convenient, the signals were replaced by IBS signals, which usually consits of a single yellow and a red/stop signal. The distant signal can show Yellow and/or Green, while the stop signal will show Red and/or Green. An IBS may also protect a siding or crossover that is worked from a Ground Frame.
The IBS is controlled by the signalbox in the rear and may also be operated by the trains through the Track Circuit. This is one case where a driver may pass the 'red' signal, providing there is no telephone available/working.
Before passing the signal the driver must check any facing points to make sure they are set in the running direction and must traverse any facing points at 5mph and go through the section at 'caution' watching out for any further points or track problems and should expect that there may be another train standing at the next signal. These days with in-cab radio and driver's mobile phones this rule is seldom carried out now.
However, in the case of IBS Sections that are controlled by a signalbox, such as at Marykirk and Laurencekirk, on the Aberdeen route, they are either 'always' switched in or they may be switched out (Showing permanantly clear signals) during quiet times. When switched out the section them becomes from the previous manned signalbox in the rear to the next signalbox ahead.
Cheers.
BillEWS.
An IBS signal (Intermediate Block Signal) is generally placed where old stations or yards used to be, that broke the line up into manageable 'block' sections. When the stations or sidings were closed and the signals removed this would make for rather long sections causing delays and a reduction of service. To avoid this, where it was convenient, the signals were replaced by IBS signals, which usually consits of a single yellow and a red/stop signal. The distant signal can show Yellow and/or Green, while the stop signal will show Red and/or Green. An IBS may also protect a siding or crossover that is worked from a Ground Frame.
The IBS is controlled by the signalbox in the rear and may also be operated by the trains through the Track Circuit. This is one case where a driver may pass the 'red' signal, providing there is no telephone available/working.
Before passing the signal the driver must check any facing points to make sure they are set in the running direction and must traverse any facing points at 5mph and go through the section at 'caution' watching out for any further points or track problems and should expect that there may be another train standing at the next signal. These days with in-cab radio and driver's mobile phones this rule is seldom carried out now.
However, in the case of IBS Sections that are controlled by a signalbox, such as at Marykirk and Laurencekirk, on the Aberdeen route, they are either 'always' switched in or they may be switched out (Showing permanantly clear signals) during quiet times. When switched out the section them becomes from the previous manned signalbox in the rear to the next signalbox ahead.
Cheers.
BillEWS.
Bill,
Just to (hopefully) expand on one or two of the points that you made...
Intermediate block sections are a concept that applies only to absolute block sections - you're absolutely right to say that they're used to break up what would otherwise be a lengthy section, but if the section is track-circuited throughout, and that's used to automatically work the 'intermediate' signals, then it's simply track circuit block throughout. From the driver's point of view, the main difference (to modern standards, at least) will be that the 'intermediate' signals will be plated with an auto plate (i.e. two horizontal white stripes) instead of an IB plate.
Hopefully you'll understand the obvious cost benefit of retaining absolute block working over a section, but with an intermediate block section - the line need only be track circuited to the end of the IB home signal's overlap...whereas, with full TCB, it'd need to be track circuited throughout the section.
I'm also slightly puzzled by the references to Carmont IBS on the diagram...but no mention of Carmont box itself! I assume that there is still an operational box at Carmont? Where are the IB signals in relation to the box itself? Same goes for Marykirk! I'm just not sure whether the name refers to the location of the IBs, or the name of the controlling signalbox!
Just to (hopefully) expand on one or two of the points that you made...
Intermediate block sections are a concept that applies only to absolute block sections - you're absolutely right to say that they're used to break up what would otherwise be a lengthy section, but if the section is track-circuited throughout, and that's used to automatically work the 'intermediate' signals, then it's simply track circuit block throughout. From the driver's point of view, the main difference (to modern standards, at least) will be that the 'intermediate' signals will be plated with an auto plate (i.e. two horizontal white stripes) instead of an IB plate.
Hopefully you'll understand the obvious cost benefit of retaining absolute block working over a section, but with an intermediate block section - the line need only be track circuited to the end of the IB home signal's overlap...whereas, with full TCB, it'd need to be track circuited throughout the section.
I'm also slightly puzzled by the references to Carmont IBS on the diagram...but no mention of Carmont box itself! I assume that there is still an operational box at Carmont? Where are the IB signals in relation to the box itself? Same goes for Marykirk! I'm just not sure whether the name refers to the location of the IBs, or the name of the controlling signalbox!
Turbostar
Member
Yes, Carmont is still operational afaik, as used to live in Stonehaven until Jan '06. Marykirk I think you mean Craigo box iirc, don't remember a box at Marykirk.
Mart
Hi,
Thanks Tomnick, for expanding on the use of IBS, I was keeping things as basic as possible when replying to Nath9425's enquiry.
Thanks to for stating that the section that I thought was Marykirk was infact Craigo. I shall make that correction in my bmp time table. I did enquire about this to someone a while back but hadn't replied a reply as yet. I was never sure whether it was one or the other. They are quite close on the map!
Carmont has always interested me as I have on more than one ocassion, while travelling to Aberdeen at a weekend, had the train reverse to the UP line for singleline working. The signalbox is definitely still in operation. I would think that unless they put in multiple aspect signaling between Dundee and Aberdeen, which I doubt very much for the near future, then Carmont will be required to break this long section up.
The line between Aberdeen and Dundee has improved considerably since the 60's but is still a bit of a backwater and could easily be speeded up a bit more. Perhaps that will happen if they ever get around to electrifying the Aberdeen-Glasgow-Edinburgh triangle.
Cheers.
BillEwS.
Thanks Tomnick, for expanding on the use of IBS, I was keeping things as basic as possible when replying to Nath9425's enquiry.
Thanks to for stating that the section that I thought was Marykirk was infact Craigo. I shall make that correction in my bmp time table. I did enquire about this to someone a while back but hadn't replied a reply as yet. I was never sure whether it was one or the other. They are quite close on the map!
Carmont has always interested me as I have on more than one ocassion, while travelling to Aberdeen at a weekend, had the train reverse to the UP line for singleline working. The signalbox is definitely still in operation. I would think that unless they put in multiple aspect signaling between Dundee and Aberdeen, which I doubt very much for the near future, then Carmont will be required to break this long section up.
The line between Aberdeen and Dundee has improved considerably since the 60's but is still a bit of a backwater and could easily be speeded up a bit more. Perhaps that will happen if they ever get around to electrifying the Aberdeen-Glasgow-Edinburgh triangle.
Cheers.
BillEwS.
Turbostar
Member
I think Carmont is IB, as Stonehaven has an operational box, then you have 1 or 2 more before Aberdeen. I know there's 1 at Newtonhill, not sure if there's anymore. Going the other way towards Montrose, I think there's a box at Fourdon, then you have Laurencekirk, then Craigo, then Montrose. I used to live not far from Carmont btw (with ex-partner that is lol). When I used to travel to work between Stonehaven & Montrose, it was a bit hairy going through Carmont as trains do judder a bit going over the points, some days it could get quiet hairy.
Mart
Mart
Hi Tomnick,
I have not noticed where Carmont is an IBS or Complete Block post, but it must have been there quite a long time and possibly is a full block section. Whether it is open 24 hours a day or closes at quiet times, I am have not heard. perhaps someone will enlighten us more!
There are a few interesting pictures at: http://www.railscot.co.uk/Aberdeen_Railway/frame.htm
Apparently, there was a siding there in the past. I don't recall that either.
If you click the links between Stonehaven and Aberdeen you will read that work has finally started on building at the Ex Guild Steet Goods yard & Depot and work started in building a new yard between Aberdeen and Inverurie. I wouldn't think that Aberdeen train and yard crewe are very happy at being moved so far out of the City. When I started in 1963 the rule was that you went to a depot within a mile of your home! I only knew of Ferryhill and thought that Kittybrewster was more for freight and I put Ferryhill on my application, but when it returned it was crossed out and Kittybrewster written in it's place, as that depot was closer for me. Today they would send you anything up to 100 miles and more with no choice in the matter.
Cheers.
BillEWS
I have not noticed where Carmont is an IBS or Complete Block post, but it must have been there quite a long time and possibly is a full block section. Whether it is open 24 hours a day or closes at quiet times, I am have not heard. perhaps someone will enlighten us more!
There are a few interesting pictures at: http://www.railscot.co.uk/Aberdeen_Railway/frame.htm
Apparently, there was a siding there in the past. I don't recall that either.
If you click the links between Stonehaven and Aberdeen you will read that work has finally started on building at the Ex Guild Steet Goods yard & Depot and work started in building a new yard between Aberdeen and Inverurie. I wouldn't think that Aberdeen train and yard crewe are very happy at being moved so far out of the City. When I started in 1963 the rule was that you went to a depot within a mile of your home! I only knew of Ferryhill and thought that Kittybrewster was more for freight and I put Ferryhill on my application, but when it returned it was crossed out and Kittybrewster written in it's place, as that depot was closer for me. Today they would send you anything up to 100 miles and more with no choice in the matter.
Cheers.
BillEWS
Methinks there's some confusion arising here - are you sure that you're not describing Carmont as a pair of IB signals (controlled from the box in rear!) when it should really be described as a proper block post with an operational signalbox?
I've got some diagrams that I can upload tomorrow, if there's still a bit of confuddlement - hopefully that'll help sort it out!
Edit: Sorry Bill, this was in response to the previous post, not yours!
I've got some diagrams that I can upload tomorrow, if there's still a bit of confuddlement - hopefully that'll help sort it out!
Edit: Sorry Bill, this was in response to the previous post, not yours!
Turbostar
Member
cratch:
Turbostar
Member
Ok, there's a box at Carmont, with a LC there as well. So that must cover the section north to Stonehaven, & south to Fourdon or Laurencekirk?
Mart
Mart
I've decided to upload this diagram now, or I'll not be able to sleep tonight
For those who haven't got the full picture yet, imagine the three boxes at A, B and C. The box at B might have very little purpose other than to break up what would otherwise be a long section between A and C (with the obvious effect on headway and capacity!); it might even be able to switch out so that it's only open on one or two shifts (leaving the long block section A to C when the extra capacity isn't needed). I suspect that Carmont is actually the equivalent of box B in this diagram!
But anyway, for cost reasons, it's decided that box B must be closed permanently (even on a single shift per day, it's still costing a considerable amount in staffing and maintenance, and maybe it's becoming life-expired too). As the second diagram shows, this would clearly leave the block section extending from A to C all the time, with the same effects on headway and capacity! So...
A pair of signals (IB Home/Distant) are put in where B used to be, controlled from box A. Absolute block regulations still apply between the IBH and box C, but there's now a special case (3.1.14 - 3.1.18 in the absolute block regs - module TS3) that means that A's section signal (in this case, A's last semaphore) can be cleared to allow a train into the IB section whilst the block section to C is still occupied. So now you've got the capacity of the previous arrangement (24 hours a day, or at least as long as A and C are switched in) without the extra staffing costs! Does this arrangement apply at Carmont, or is it merely a mid-section box with a couple of signals each way?
Hopefully that'll help anyway
Forgot to mention the significance of the two track circuits - before the section signal at A can be cleared to allow a train into the IB section, the line must be clear up to the overlap on the IBH...that's just the way of proving that.
For those who haven't got the full picture yet, imagine the three boxes at A, B and C. The box at B might have very little purpose other than to break up what would otherwise be a long section between A and C (with the obvious effect on headway and capacity!); it might even be able to switch out so that it's only open on one or two shifts (leaving the long block section A to C when the extra capacity isn't needed). I suspect that Carmont is actually the equivalent of box B in this diagram!
But anyway, for cost reasons, it's decided that box B must be closed permanently (even on a single shift per day, it's still costing a considerable amount in staffing and maintenance, and maybe it's becoming life-expired too). As the second diagram shows, this would clearly leave the block section extending from A to C all the time, with the same effects on headway and capacity! So...
A pair of signals (IB Home/Distant) are put in where B used to be, controlled from box A. Absolute block regulations still apply between the IBH and box C, but there's now a special case (3.1.14 - 3.1.18 in the absolute block regs - module TS3) that means that A's section signal (in this case, A's last semaphore) can be cleared to allow a train into the IB section whilst the block section to C is still occupied. So now you've got the capacity of the previous arrangement (24 hours a day, or at least as long as A and C are switched in) without the extra staffing costs! Does this arrangement apply at Carmont, or is it merely a mid-section box with a couple of signals each way?
Hopefully that'll help anyway
Forgot to mention the significance of the two track circuits - before the section signal at A can be cleared to allow a train into the IB section, the line must be clear up to the overlap on the IBH...that's just the way of proving that.
Turbostar
Member
Ok, if this helps, I know Stonehaven box is closed at night, was usually around 6-7pm when I was there. Not sure if Carmont is closed, or open 24hrs, as didn't venture to the LC at night lol.
Mart
Btw, I'm on messenger if you wanna talk futher.
Mart
Btw, I'm on messenger if you wanna talk futher.
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