Edinburgh Gateway - A White Elephant ?

[NotATrainspott]

No it couldn't, both sides of the four track layout west from Haymarket are fully occupied, certainly if you add a station stop at Gateway, and have been for many years. And you can't even four track from Saughton Junction out to the proposed Dalmeny curve as each side of the Fife line at Gyle has been developed right up to the boundary fence.

It's not as bad as that. See, the constraints through Haymarket are more about constraints across the wider rail network. Extra paths are possible through the station, but they then can't be used to run meaningful rail services. For instance, you might have a path available to Linlithgow, but then there's nowhere for a train to get out of the way of the E&G express barrelling up behind it, and even if there were there's not a lot of point running a train that wouldn't go to where passengers want it. These gaps exist on both the north and south lines, and the Dalmeny Chord is a fairly neat way of being able to use them to run more services. First of all, it would be grade-separated at both ends: the new junction on the Fife lines, and the existing Winchburgh junction on the E&G. The new middle junction between the existing Dalmeny line and the new chord to the Gateway doesn't need it due to very low traffic. This means using the new chord incurs very little penalty for capacity on either existing line. Then, you can use a timetable gap on a line, jump onto the chord and then end up in another gap on the other line.

For instance, you could use a gap in the north line timetable heading west of Haymarket to run an E&G express at the same time as a Dunblane stopper runs on the south lines. As the stopper calls at Edinburgh Park and Winchburgh, the E&G could stop at the Gateway (or run fast) and then take the new chord to end up ahead of the Dunblane train. The north lines essentially become a long grade-separated dynamic loop for the south lines, including the flat junctions at Haymarket and Newbridge. Therefore, westbound E&G/Dunblane services don't need to conflict with eastbound Shotts, Carstairs, WCML and Bathgate ones. Trains through Linlithgow can now leave higher-numbered platforms at Waverley without needing to cross over and block the lower numbers. It's not going to magically enable another 10 trains an hour but it's the best enhancement currently available for capacity west of Haymarket.

The chord was originally going to be included in EGIP back when it involved running a 6tph 6-carriage E&G shuttle. When the project was restructured to lengthen the current 4tph to 8 carriages, the chord and the other grade-separation work at Greenhill was no longer required. However, NR have kept them on the back burner as they know they will be needed soon for other improvements and capacity enhancements.

 

[Blindtraveler]

What might well have worked better was perhaps a little electric 15 or 20 seater minibus shuttling between the current South Gyle, the shopping centre and the nearest tram and bus stops.
Station facilitites could have been expanded with a booking office and wating shelter combi type thing.

 

[EISL]

Some history here:

https://www.eisl.org.uk/index.htm

I created that website a decade ago, when the Scottish Government cancelled the EARL rail connection to Edinburgh Airport. I suggested a couple of alternatives that might have addressed the Government's stated concerns. The website has not been updated since then so is not fully compatible with many modern browsers, but you can still navigate to the report and the maps. When that was written "Gogar station" was the name being used for what has become "Edinburgh Gateway". The history is on the "EARL, Gogar and trams" tab. Start there.

 

[47271]

Two things that would help and could be put in place straight away.

1. Promote it properly and ticket it properly. It has a mysteriously low profile amongst the general public.

2. Put an end to the ridiculous prices charged for the tram connection. A quid on top of the train ticket each way is reasonable, no more.

 

[najaB]

What might well have worked better was perhaps a little electric 15 or 20 seater minibus shuttling between the current South Gyle, the shopping centre and the nearest tram and bus stops.

The main problem is that South Gyle is in the middle of a quiet residential area, the locals would likely have objected to any expansion.

 

[InOban]

In the peak some Falkirk, Stirling and Bathgate services use the north lines through Haymarket and cross over on the flat west of the station. Once Dalmeny Chord opens it will be much better to run Falkirk High services out to a grade separated junction, calling at Edinburgh Gateway.

That will speed up the journey and create capacity on both lines by removing flat crossings.

And without these trains crossing over there would be a huge imbalance between the Fife lines and the southern pair. The Fife lines carry 7 tph (1ABD, 1DUN, 1Perth,4 Fife suburban). The Southern pair carry 13-14 (2 Stirling, 4Queen st high, 4 Queen Street LL, 2 Shotts, 1 XC every two hours, 1 from Carlisle, either TPE or VT). Once the 8-coach trains fill up in a few years, and they need to move to 6tph as originally planned, then the Chord will be essential. It's desirable already - there's a coach from Glasgow to Edinburgh airport every half hour.

 

[Glenmutchkin]

What might well have worked better was perhaps a little electric 15 or 20 seater minibus shuttling between the current South Gyle, the shopping centre and the nearest tram and bus stops.
Station facilitites could have been expanded with a booking office and wating shelter combi type thing.

With all due respect that seems to be unambitious amd wasteful of resources. Edinburgh Gateway should be about easy connection to the airport for people from Fife and the North East. South Gyle is already connected to the Airport by tram.

 

[Chrism20]

I think with the way passenger numbers are going the chord is definitely going to happen, the big question is when, however the good thing about it is that the station is built and operational which means there isn't that expense to be factored in at a later date.

One for the future as they say.

 

[Blindtraveler]

For the tram to compeat I agree its time for an end to the truly silly amount charged. If there is 2 or more of you from the gyle, Edinburgh Park or Gateway a taxi costs the same and for 3 or more is less!

 

[najaB]

South Gyle is already connected to the Airport by tram.

Not really, it's a good 10-15 minute walk from South Gyle to Bankhead tram stop, and about the same to the Gyle Centre.

 

[Glenmutchkin]

Not really, it's a good 10-15 minute walk from South Gyle to Bankhead tram stop, and about the same to the Gyle Centre.

You must walk awful slow.

 

[route:oxford]

For the tram to compeat I agree its time for an end to the truly silly amount charged. If there is 2 or more of you from the gyle, Edinburgh Park or Gateway a taxi costs the same and for 3 or more is less!

It's a shocking amount.

What makes things worse is the Transport Scotland/Scotrail policy to make it very difficult to buy an integrated tram+train ticket.

Six months after receiving compensation for being mis-sold a ticket that didn't include tram travel along with a hand-wringy "computer error" letter - it continues to be Scotrail/Transport Scotland policy to mislead customers with ticket sales to Edinburgh Airport.

Goto https://www.scotrail.co.uk/ and try buying a ticket from Bridge of Allan to Edinburgh Airport. Once you collect the ticket it actually gives you a BEA-HYM ticket with no onward tram (price is the same as BEA to HYM).

Goodness knows why it thinks it's a good idea to take you past the tram interchange at EDP all the way to Haymarket for the 15 minute run back on the tram...

 

[Altnabreac]

And without these trains crossing over there would be a huge imbalance between the Fife lines and the southern pair. The Fife lines carry 7 tph (1ABD, 1DUN, 1Perth,4 Fife suburban). The Southern pair carry 13-14 (2 Stirling, 4Queen st high, 4 Queen Street LL, 2 Shotts, 1 XC every two hours, 1 from Carlisle, either TPE or VT). Once the 8-coach trains fill up in a few years, and they need to move to 6tph as originally planned, then the Chord will be essential. It's desirable already - there's a coach from Glasgow to Edinburgh airport every half hour.

Completely agree. I think everyone is agreed that Dalmeny Chord will definitely happen in CP6. It is the key to unlocking a lot of capacity and speed benefits. Sending 4tph of the 6tph that currently runs through Winchburgh (probably 2tph Stirling and 2tph Glasgow) makes timetabling at Newbridge Junction much easier with 6tph crossing on the flat instead of 10tph.

You also remove flat crossings west of Haymarket and reduce interaction with Shotts and TPE services as well by using the north lines more.

I can remember when Edinburgh Park first opened it had similar criticisms (expensive, serves field in middle of nowhere, not enough services stop there).

Now you have a thriving office development, increased service levels and best part of a million entries and exits a year.

Once Dalmeny Chord opens and the International Business Gateway is in full swing, Edinburgh Gateway will be a thriving hub and everyone will praise the foresight that saw it built with plenty of capacity for the future.

In the meantime the usual suspects will moan. I'm all in favour of ambitious future proofed infrastructure personally.

 

[najaB]

You must walk awful slow.

Not really. Just under a mile in ten minutes is pretty average.

 

[thenorthern]

Edinburgh Gateway is too close to South Gyle for a start.

I don't see how the station was ever going to work as many nearby places such as Livingston already have a rail link to Edinburgh so why would someone drive to Edinburgh Gateway when they could get the train from Livingston.

Edinburgh is a very car dependent city compared to Glasgow in my opinion as many parts of the city doesn't have any rail connections.

 

[najaB]

... so why would someone drive to Edinburgh Gateway when they could get the train from Livingston.

That is most definitely not the market that Edinburgh Gateway was intended to capture.

 

[InOban]

Edinburgh Gateway is too close to South Gyle for a start.

I don't see how the station was ever going to work as many nearby places such as Livingston already have a rail link to Edinburgh so why would someone drive to Edinburgh Gateway when they could get the train from Livingston.

Edinburgh is a very car dependent city compared to Glasgow in my opinion as many parts of the city doesn't have any rail connections.

Actually it's a very bus-dependent city. Fortunately its bus company still largely belongs to the local authorities, and is regularly voted as Britain's best.

However the growth of longer-distance commuting, from North Berwick, Fife, Bathgate and Falkirk is making rail increasingly important.

 

[mark-h]

South Gyle is, as I recall, up a side road. However it does have the advantage that the shopping centre is the terminus for a variety of bus routes to all parts.

Gateway to Gyle shopping centre is easier than from South Gyle.

 

[El Blanco]

Completely agree. I think everyone is agreed that Dalmeny Chord will definitely happen in CP6. It is the key to unlocking a lot of capacity and speed benefits. Sending 4tph of the 6tph that currently runs through Winchburgh (probably 2tph Stirling and 2tph Glasgow) makes timetabling at Newbridge Junction much easier with 6tph crossing on the flat instead of 10tph.

You also remove flat crossings west of Haymarket and reduce interaction with Shotts and TPE services as well by using the north lines more.

I can remember when Edinburgh Park first opened it had similar criticisms (expensive, serves field in middle of nowhere, not enough services stop there).

Now you have a thriving office development, increased service levels and best part of a million entries and exits a year.

Once Dalmeny Chord opens and the International Business Gateway is in full swing, Edinburgh Gateway will be a thriving hub and everyone will praise the foresight that saw it built with plenty of capacity for the future.

In the meantime the usual suspects will moan. I'm all in favour of ambitious future proofed infrastructure personally.

Allied to this, you have the planned new homes at Maybury (1,400) and the Garden District development (3,500) if these ever get off the ground.

I use this station every day. In peak times it is well utilised, not least with staff going to/from RBS Gogarburn. and the early morning flight departures. One of the disadvantages with the station is that it competes with the very good 747 bus service from Inverkeithing station for passengers from Fife and beyond. So if you are coming from Dunfermline (for example) and you have to change at Inverkeithing for a Gateway train, you may find it is faster (outside of the road rush hour), cheaper (marginal) and more convenient (no change of vehicle and get dropped off right at the terminal) to jump on the bus instead of the train.

 

[route:oxford]

One of the disadvantages with the station is that it competes with the very good 747 bus service from Inverkeithing station for passengers from Fife and beyond.

The 747 bus which is free to pensioners...

My brother's boss (just turned 60) uses it to commute to work instead of the train now. It's shocking really. £80K a year and he gets a free ride to work for at least the next 6 years.

Still, at least that's one less commuter who needs to stand from Fife in the morning.

 

[InOban]

Which why the ScoGov is proposing to raise the age for the bus pass, not before time.

 

[najaB]

Word has got out! It looks like people are going to be left on the platform unable to board the 1613 Edinburgh to Dundee service.

 

[Ginaro]

Completely agree. I think everyone is agreed that Dalmeny Chord will definitely happen in CP6.

Assume that means electrifying up to the Forth Bridge at the same time - do you know what that section is like in terms of structures needing cleared?

Once Dalmeny Chord opens and the International Business Gateway is in full swing, Edinburgh Gateway will be a thriving hub and everyone will praise the foresight that saw it built with plenty of capacity for the future.

In the meantime the usual suspects will moan. I'm all in favour of ambitious future proofed infrastructure personally.

Indeed - if you aren't going to create an underground station and the chord is delayed, then you might as well get on with building the station anyway so people can make use of it in the meantime.

 

[El Blanco]

Word has got out! It looks like people are going to be left on the platform unable to board the 1613 Edinburgh to Dundee service.

This is the same every day. Lot of people finish at RBS Gogarburn at 16:00. Walk to Edinburgh Gateway is 15-20 mins, plus there are two buses just after 16:00. Lot of the times the train is a 2-car unit too.

 

[najaB]

This is the same every day. Lot of people finish at RBS Gogarburn at 16:00. Walk to Edinburgh Gateway is 15-20 mins, plus there are two buses just after 16:00. Lot of the times the train is a 2-car unit too.

It was indeed a two-car unit, however a fair percentage of the people on the platform had luggage with them.

 

[El Blanco]

It was indeed a two-car unit, however a fair percentage of the people on the platform had luggage with them.

And this is on a day where Gogarburn is empty - they follow the UK Bank Holidays there.

 

[Class 170101]

there's a coach from Glasgow to Edinburgh airport every half hour.

But is it busy or just carrying fresh air?

 

[och aye]

Slightly off topic, but given the increasing numbers of people using the airport, does anyone think a new EARL 2.0 could happen in the next 10-15 years?

 

[najaB]

Slightly off topic, but given the increasing numbers of people using the airport, does anyone think a new EARL 2.0 could happen in the next 10-15 years?

Edinburgh Gateway + Tram + Dalmeny Chord = EARL.

 

[EISL]

Slightly off topic, but given the increasing numbers of people using the airport, does anyone think a new EARL 2.0 could happen in the next 10-15 years?

Options for a heavy rail link to the airport were discussed in 2007 when EARL was cancelled. This website presented a couple of options that were designed to meet the objections that the Scottish Government put forward at the time:

https://www.eisl.org.uk