Edinburgh to Glasgow

[caliwag]

Quite a lot of discussion about 'speeding up' the timetable, but they will be no faster than 27 top n tailed rakes of mk2s in the 70s. However, anyone please got a steam days TT. Ideally I'd like the best timings for the Scottish Directors' days...50s I guess. Toram Beg, the infamous commentator on efficient steam driving, talked glowingly of his driving days on unmodified Directors on the line.
Just curious about how 60 years of, so-called, improvements have knocked minutes off this intense route. Cheers, Jim

 

[gordonthemoron]

weren't mk2 rakes operated push-pull?

 

[caliwag]

You are right in class 47 days, but before that it was T+T 27s...could have been Mk1s I guess. Thanks.

 

[gordonthemoron]

This is what made me think that

 

[caliwag]

Indeed, remember it well. however just seen a copy of Locomotive magazine on 26/27s, or whatever it's called, in Smiths and the front cover depicts a pair of 27s T+Ting a rake of Mk 2s

 

[4SRKT]

The 27s were push-pull. There was a loco at each end, but they were driven from one end only. This is different from top and tail.

 

[High Dyke]

The 27s were push-pull. There was a loco at each end, but they were driven from one end only. This is different from top and tail.

I remember seeing T&T 27s passing through Corstorphine whilst visiting friends in the area. It was sometime during the late 70s or early 80s.

Just found a photo on the wobbly web. http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/811656

 

[PaxVobiscum]

I'm trying to remember whether it was the 27+27 or the 47+DVT loco services which were advertised as "Glasgow to Edinburgh in 43 minutes" although I suspect that "Edinburgh" might have meant "Haymarket."
I note it currently takes 45 minutes GLQ - HYM.

 

[PHILIPE]

I once had a 27 + 37 Combo

 

[4SRKT]

I once had a 27 + 37 Combo

Any blue star loco could do the deed on this AFAICR. The standard formation though was a 27/2 (ETH fitted) loco at one end and a 27/1 with back-up boiler to heat the dual heat stock if the ETH wasn't working.

The only other application of a two-loco push-pull operation back then that I can think of is the NIR Enterprise which had a Hunslet/EE 1,350 hp loco at each end of a rake of mk 2s. Except at times of slack demand when a DBSO or DBFO would be used instead of one of the locos.

 

[flymo]

There is a 1948 Timetable online at Timetable World

A little earlier than you might like but interesting nonetheless.

 

[caliwag]

Many thanks Flymo...excellent stuff

 

[AJP62]

From memory of using them when the 27s were used the trains were half hourly and the on the hour one was non stop Queen St - Haymarket and vv, the other Queen St, Falkirk High then Haymarket so were quicker than now.

Definately early MkIIs as they were specially wired for push pull so no other carriages could be used. Usually a BSO, FK and 4 TSOs I think.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Quick comparison from the timetables that I have:

1978 (all-line timetable, 27s):
47 mins for the hourly fastest one: xx00 from Edinburgh, xx04 Haymarket, xx47 Glasgow QS
The xx30 Edinburgh also stopped at Falkirk High, and made it into Glasgow QS at xx19 for 49 mins

1985 (ABC rail guide, 47s):
45 mins for the xx00 from Edinburgh, xx45 into GQS
46 mins for the xx30, arriving xx16

2005 (all-line timetable, 170s or 158s??):
every 15 mins, Edinburgh-Glasgow
xx00 arr xx50 (calling Haymarket, Falkirk High, Croy)
xx15 arr xx06 (calling Haymarket, Linlithgow, Polmont, Falkirk High)
xx30 arr xx20 (calling Haymarket, Falkirk High, Croy)
xx45 arr xx36 (calling Haymarket, Linlithgow, Polmont, Falkirk High)
for a 50 or 51 mins regular timing, which is more or less the same today.

But as the 15-min level of service is basically turn-up-and-go, you could argue that average journey times are quicker so long as you came to the station at a random time.

 

[caliwag]

Interesting, thanks. I have now received a copy of Toram Beg's 'Enginemen Elite' and have realised that he was probably driving the D11/2s on Edinburgh to Glasgow runs in the 1920s as they were introduced in Scotland 1924 (rebuilt to his annoyance in 1938)...TB started with the NB in 1910, and perhaps 10 years to become a driver!!
I posted the query on the LNER encyclopedia forum and that prompted some interesting answers! Thanks to all who have contributed.

 

[eastwestdivide]

To add to the story, that 1948 timetable linked above has a fastest time of 1 hour dead (one train only), a few others around the 1h05-1h10 mark, but a frequency far less than half-hourly.

But 1948 wouldn't necessarily be a good year for fast steam times, with ongoing recovery from WW2 I'd expect.

 

[caliwag]

To continue and to further answer my own question, I've found a 1939 LNER timetable on my shelves. The fastest appears to be the 16.03 non stop, arriving Queen Street at 17.01 including a restaurant car! which is pretty swift. So if Toram Beg is to be believed, he perhaps shaved that to 48 minutes with a new Director (D11/2) in the mid to late 20s.
OK lots of wild assumptions there and perhaps a bit anal, but interesting even 70+ years ago with far a heavier train!
Incidentally others with a stop at Haymarket and Polment took about 63 minutes.

 

[Blindtraveler]

wouldnt mind a restaurant on the E and G these days but I dont suppose a 170 is the best place for one. A facinating little thread none the less as this line has got to one of my highest for milage with the north WCML, HML and Waverley>Inverkeithing and Dundee to Aberdeen near runners up