Edinburgh to Machynlleth via Durham?

[Mike Mach]

Hi,

bought an offpeak return from Machynlleth to Edinburgh (stated route: Crewe).

I'm going there via Wolverhampton, Crewe, Carlisle, but I wanted to retun via some friends in Durham. When I picked up the ticket at Machynlleth station, the lad there told me that it didn't entitle me to do so.

I've checked with the National Routeing Guide on the ATOC website, and I don't agree with him. This was, however, the first time I've ever tried to use the Routeing Guide, so I may well be doing something wrong. As far as I can tell, there are two possible route maps between Edinburgh and Machynlleth that would take me via Durham (namely BD+LY+NE or BD+TP+NE, i.e. via York and Manchester). Both will bring me through Crewe.

Am I right in thinking this? Or have I missed something?

All help gratefully received! Thanks.

 

[Bellwater]

It wouldn't be valid unless you went to the booking office at Edinburgh and paid an excess fare.

I remember Edinburgh - Man Airport tickets had two fares: Via Crewe and York. the York fare is higher, and would apply to Mach as well.

 

[Mike Mach]

Thanks for that.

So even if my return journey via the East Coast line does ultimately go via Crewe, the ticketing restriction means that I must use the West Coast route yes?

If that's the case, anyone have an idea how much of an excess fare I'd be liable for?

Cheers.

 

[First class]

Thanks for that.

So even if my return journey via the East Coast line does ultimately go via Crewe, the ticketing restriction means that I must use the West Coast route yes?

If that's the case, anyone have an idea how much of an excess fare I'd be liable for?

Cheers.

I'd imagine the routeing guide will prohibit you starting on ECML and making any of the journeys below.

(Unless someone can confirm whether it would be valid via York, Leeds, Preston, Crewe, Shrewsbury or even York, Leeds, Settle, Carlisle, Preston, Crewe, Shrewsbury)

 

[yorkie]

It wouldn't be valid unless you went to the booking office at Edinburgh and paid an excess fare.

I remember Edinburgh - Man Airport tickets had two fares: Via Crewe and York. the York fare is higher, and would apply to Mach as well.

This is not correct advice.

The only fare available is route Crewe, and the ticket is priced by CrossCountry. It is perfectly acceptable to travel via York, Manchester and Crewe.

Edinburgh (EDB)-Manchester Airport (MIA) is completely different to Edinburgh (EDB)-Machynlleth (MCN), and there is no Route Crewe for that flow (it would certainly seem odd!). The options for EDB-MIA are Carlisle and York. This is rather different than Crewe.

You can't try to remember a routeing of a ticket from A to B and then say that it applies to A to C!

Edinburgh-Machynlleth Group is valid on the following maps:
BD+CG+FC
BD+LY+NE
BD+MM+FC
BD+TP+NE
BD+ZZ
CA+BS+FC
CN+CE+ER

Any route that you can find on any of those map combinations that goes through both Durham and Crewe would be valid and would be an option available to the OP on his return leg.

 

[tony_mac]

As far as I can tell, there are two possible route maps between Edinburgh and Machynlleth that would take me via Durham (namely BD+LY+NE or BD+TP+NE, i.e. via York and Manchester). Both will bring me through Crewe.

Am I right in thinking this? Or have I missed something?

No, that's fine.
If you look for a fare on the EastCoast website and specify via Durham, then it suggests that you travel via Crewe and gives you the 'route Crewe' fare.

If you can, book with seat reservations, just to save you some possible hassle if the guard thinks that the route doesn't look right.

 

[yorkie]

Thanks for that.

So even if my return journey via the East Coast line does ultimately go via Crewe, the ticketing restriction means that I must use the West Coast route yes?

No. Route Crewe means you have to go via Crewe, it does not mean you have to go through a random station that is on a particular route. The previous poster was confused with Carlisle. This ticket is not routed via Carlisle, so there is no requirement to use the West Coast route.

If that's the case, anyone have an idea how much of an excess fare I'd be liable for?

Cheers.

There isn't an applicable excess for EDB-MCN, but to give you an idea how it would work, with the EDB-MIA example the options are Carlisle (£58.00) and York (£82.00), the difference in fares is £24. To excess the return portion only, that is half the difference, ie £12.

 

[clagmonster]

The route Crewe part means that you must take a permitted route via Crewe. Bellwater, in the Manchester Airport example, the possible routes are York and Carlisle, no route Crewe or any permitted. The route Carlisle would not be valid on the ECML (unless Newcastle-Carlisle is a permitted route).

Going through the routeing guide working, Machynlleth and Edinburgh are both routeing points.
Routeing permissions from Machynlleth to Edinburgh are: BD+CG+FC BD+LY+NE BD+MM+FC BD+TP+NE BD+ZZ CA+BS+FC
CN+CE+ER.

BD+CG+FC gives:
Machynlleth-Shrewsbury-Crewe-WCML-Carstairs-Edinburgh
Can also deviate via any, some, or all ofManchester, the Cumbrian coast, the GSW and Glasgow.

BD+LY+NE gives:
Machynlleth-Shrewsbury-Crewe-Manchester-Halifax group (the group stations list is a mess, so I couldn't tell you what this consists of)-Leeds-York-ECML-Edinburgh
Possible deviations are Huddersfield, Selby and the Durham coast.

BD+MM+FC gives
Machynlleth-Shrewsbury-Crewe-Manchester-Bolton-Blackburn-Hellifield-Settle-Carlisle-Edinburgh.
Can also go the the GSW and/or Glasgow.

BD+TP+NE gives:
Machynlleth-Shrewsbury-Crewe-Manchester-Huddersfield-Leeds-York-ECML-Edinbrurgh
Machynlleth-Shrewsbury-Crewe-Preston-Blackburn-Halifax-Bradford-Leeds-York-ECML-Edinburgh

BD+ZZ
Machynlleth-Shrewsbury-Crewe then sleeper north

CA+BS+FC
Machynlleth-Shrewsbury-Wolverhampton-Crewe-WCML-Edinburgh
Can go via Glasgow if desired.

CN+CE+ER gives absolutely nothing via Crewe.

 

[John @ home]

bought an offpeak return from Machynlleth to Edinburgh (stated route: Crewe).

All the walk-on fares Machynlleth - Edinburgh are route Crewe.

I'm going there via Wolverhampton, Crewe, Carlisle, but I wanted to retun via some friends in Durham. When I picked up the ticket at Machynlleth station, the lad there told me that it didn't entitle me to do so.

The lad is wrong. The technical stuff is:

Machynlleth is a member of Machynlleth Group Routeing Point.
Edinburgh is a Routeing Point.
Maps for Machynlleth - Edinburgh are on maps BD+CG+FC, BD+LY+NE, BD+MM+FC, BD+TP+NE, BD+ZZ, CA+BS+FC and CN+CE+ER.
BD+LY+NE allows, among other thinngs, Edinburgh - York on map NE, York - Crewe via Halifax on map LY, then Crewe - Machynlleth via Wem on map BD.
BD+TP+NE allows, among other thinngs, Edinburgh - York on map NE, York - Crewe via Huddersfield on map TP, then Crewe - Machynlleth via Wem on map BD.
Note that if you travel on either of these map combinations, you can't return via Wolverhampton.

As far as I can tell, there are two possible route maps between Edinburgh and Machynlleth that would take me via Durham (namely BD+LY+NE or BD+TP+NE, i.e. via York and Manchester). Both will bring me through Crewe. Am I right in thinking this?

You're absolutely right!

It wouldn't be valid unless you went to the booking office at Edinburgh and paid an excess fare.

I remember Edinburgh - Man Airport tickets had two fares: Via Crewe and York. the York fare is higher, and would apply to Mach as well.

This is inaccurate. Edinburgh - Manchester Airport has route Carlisle and route York, not route Crewe.

 

[yorkie]

BD+TP+NE gives:
Machynlleth-Shrewsbury-Crewe-Manchester-Huddersfield-Leeds-York-ECML-Edinburgh

Good work. This is what I would consider the most sensible route to take!

 

[323235]

It wouldn't be valid unless you went to the booking office at Edinburgh and paid an excess fare.

I remember Edinburgh - Man Airport tickets had two fares: Via Crewe and York. the York fare is higher, and would apply to Mach as well.

I don't believe that would come into it as Edinburgh - Mach has one fare, Route:Crewe as explained.

Common sense tells us that the shortest route would be via the WCML so that is obviously permitted. For the other permitted routes we look to the routing guide as the OP has correctly done.


[Edit : Not an Error,Just the way the routing guide works]Routing Guide Error: Edinburgh-Mach maps have been put in, in the wrong direction of travel i.e. duplicating Mach-Edinburgh.

Once we've got round this one.

BD+LY+NE
Mach-Crewe-Manchester-Leeds-York-Edinburgh

BD+TP+NE
Mach-Crewe-Preston-Blackburn-Leeds-York-Edinburgh

There are other's but these are the one's that are particularly relevant to the OP

 

[Mike Mach]

Brilliant!

Thanks for that. Nice to know I can do it the way I want to.

It was the first time I'd used the National Routeing Guide, so wasn't too sure if I was missing something important.

 

[tony_mac]

Routing Guide Error: Edinburgh-Mach maps have been put in, in the wrong direction of travel i.e. duplicating Mach-Edinburgh.

You can use them either way round - it is normal for them to be duplicates.

 

[323235]

You can use them either way round - it is normal for them to be duplicates.

I've not noticed the duplicate thing before.

Not that it mattered anyway, as it's obvious the valid routes would be the same in both directions.

 

[Bellwater]

The route Crewe part means that you must take a permitted route via Crewe. Bellwater, in the Manchester Airport example, the possible routes are York and Carlisle, no route Crewe or any permitted. The route Carlisle would not be valid on the ECML (unless Newcastle-Carlisle is a permitted route).

Carlisle then... it was a WCML station beginning with C!

 

[yorkie]

Mike, you have an email (I can't send you a PM until you have posted 5 posts).