Edinburgh Tram developments

[overthewater]

Some of the Roads within Edinburgh City Central are a complete an utter Disgrace, Frederick street for starts and have you seen Haymarket,

 

[overthewater]

The roads around some parts of Edinburgh are a national disgrace, have you seen Haymarket. I'm sorry to say the through traffic from the Gyle to Newhaven will be poor due to the travel times, I would say tram time will be 45mins, your still be quicker taking the car, and the A90 on to Maybury Road.

Personnel Lothian buses are missing a trick here.

At least that roundabout will go back to how it used to be like in the 70s..

 

[Chrism20]

It should never have been changed to a roundabout. Edinburgh went through a phase of removing some of them about a decade ago, it's a shame they didn't remove this one and the one just down from it at the same time. I'm surprised there hasn't been a pile up at them.

Yes I've seen Haymarket and Frederick Street, they need sorted but on the whole I don't think that the roads in Edinburgh are significantly worse than other parts of the country. Both of the two streets mentioned have been redone in the last five years so questions really should be asked as to why they need doing again so soon. A relaid road should be lasting fifteen to twenty years if done correctly with only minor remedial work being done.

Re Gyle to Leith/Newhaven yes it would be quicker taking the car, however not everyone has a car and the Gyle complex has nowhere near enough spaces for everyone. Even if you do get a permit some companies have taken to limiting the number of days you are allowed to park so that everyone gets a turn at being able to park. There are a significant number of people do the Leith to Gyle journey on a daily basis to make the tram an attractive proposition.

 

[Blindtraveler]

At the wrisk of taking the thread off topic I am as my username suggests visually impaired and drive a white stick and as a result am acutely aware of the quality or lack of of roads and footways and would say out of places I go regularly London and Carlisle come out best, Birmingham somewhere in the middle and Edinburgh the worst by miles.

You also notice it when on a bus with their hard suspention and again the results are similar in terms of winners and losers with the only place noted as being as bad being Lancaster.

There is a school of thought that believes the heavy visiter traffic affects it but I would argue Blackpool gets as many as we do and their roads and pavements are a dream.

 

[overthewater]

It should never have been changed to a roundabout. Edinburgh went through a phase of removing some of them about a decade ago, it's a shame they didn't remove this one and the one just down from it at the same time. I'm surprised there hasn't been a pile up at them.

The traffic management of the Central of Edinburgh is also a disgrace, The worse thing there even did was block of half of Charlotte square and moved the bus stops around the corner to opp the Big issues office/where old Wangerburger was. Traffic is backing now, and the trams dont help. Progress is always going backwards.

Yes I've seen Haymarket and Frederick Street, they need sorted but on the whole I don't think that the roads in Edinburgh are significantly worse than other parts of the country. Both of the two streets mentioned have been redone in the last five years so questions really should be asked as to why they need doing again so soon. A relaid road should be lasting fifteen to twenty years if done correctly with only minor remedial work being done.

You have to be kidding? Haymarket was done since 2013? Its like you could make cream on that section next to the tram stops.

Re Gyle to Leith/Newhaven yes it would be quicker taking the car, however not everyone has a car and the Gyle complex has nowhere near enough spaces for everyone. Even if you do get a permit some companies have taken to limiting the number of days you are allowed to park so that everyone gets a turn at being able to park. There are a significant number of people do the Leith to Gyle journey on a daily basis to make the tram an attractive proposition.

My Belief and Lothian has only started to cotton on is there is a demand along the northern half of the route ie Route 200. I think there should have an extra service going an even faster route From Inglestion P&K and Edinburgh Park to Telford road/ Ferry road - Ocean Tem. The trams yes are becoming good but are not the end all of everything.

 

[och aye]

Visuals of potential tram line 1 completion:

A proposed extension of Edinburgh's tram line would cut one of Edinburgh's busiest streets down to one lane for 18 months. The closure of three lanes on Leith Walk would begin when construction on the £165.2m project, if approved, gets under way in 2019. A business case details extending the line by 2.8 miles (4.6km) from York Place to Newhaven.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-41082700

 

[Taunton]

I always thought one of the key benefits of trams was the ability to share roadspace with other vehicles, not to make some gross space grab on a previous public resource, excluding everyone else like a railway.

Especially when, as often in Edinburgh, there isn't a single tram anywhere in sight on the grabbed space, let alone nobody waiting for one.

 

[Mathew S]

I always thought one of the key benefits of trams was the ability to share roadspace with other vehicles, not to make some gross space grab on a previous public resource, excluding everyone else like a railway.

Especially when, as often in Edinburgh, there isn't a single tram anywhere in sight on the grabbed space, let alone nobody waiting for one.

Experience in Manchester has certainly shown that segregation from traffic is better. Both for the trams (more robust service) and road traffic (some drivers in GM still don't get how to handle trams, even though they're 25 years old!).

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[Taunton]

I'm sure the shopowners in Shandwick Place who were bankrupted by the non-accessibility to their premises for an extended period during Edinburgh's construction would have a different view.

 

[Mathew S]

I'm sure the shopowners in Shandwick Place who were bankrupted by the non-accessibility to their premises for an extended period during Edinburgh's construction would have a different view.

Yeah, that's happened during the 2CC works in Manchester. Not underestimating the problems caused, but you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs...

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[edwin_m]

I always thought one of the key benefits of trams was the ability to share roadspace with other vehicles, not to make some gross space grab on a previous public resource, excluding everyone else like a railway.

Especially when, as often in Edinburgh, there isn't a single tram anywhere in sight on the grabbed space, let alone nobody waiting for one.

They can share roadspace with general traffic if necessary but practically every tramway and even "rapid transit" bus services try to avoid doing so whenever possible, otherwise the journey becomes slow and unreliable.

The benefit of a tramway over a railway is that pedestrians and vehicles can cross the tramway fairly freely without needing level crossings or grade separation.

But it is true that most city centre tramway sections in the UK, with the exceptions of Manchester and possibly Croydon, are used far less intensively than their continental equivalents.

 

[asylumxl]

I always thought one of the key benefits of trams was the ability to share roadspace with other vehicles, not to make some gross space grab on a previous public resource, excluding everyone else like a railway.

Especially when, as often in Edinburgh, there isn't a single tram anywhere in sight on the grabbed space, let alone nobody waiting for one.

Ignoring the grammar of the last sentence, the teams are so unwanted they're almost full or full the majority of the time...

I can't comprehend why they might want to make the tram a more reliable, attractive option than a bus or driving. No logic there at all.

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[Adlington]

Edinburgh city council approved the outline business case for extending the city’s tram line from York Place to Leith and Newhaven on September 21. Tendering will now begin to find a potential contractor, before a final decision is taken in late 2018 whether to proceed.

The 4·6 km eastern extension was originally to have been built as the part of the first line, but was subsequently descoped when the project ran late and over budget. Now designated Phase 1A, it is provisionally budgeted at £165·2m. Construction is expected to take three years, followed by around four months of testing.

http://www.metro-report.com/news/ne...ng-to-begin-for-edinburgh-tram-extension.html

 

[Blindtraveler]

Good news for all the tram appologists, terrible news for the majority of residents and businesses who are opposed to it.

 

[Adlington]

The City of Edinburgh Council says

councillors will not make a final decision on taking the tram to Newhaven until autumn 2018 [...] we can't proceed with work to take trams down to Newhaven unless we're 100% certain we've rigorously scrutinised the business case and taken on board crucial lessons from the first phase.

 

[takno]

Good news for all the tram appologists, terrible news for the majority of residents and businesses who are opposed to it.

Has there been a recent survey to back that up? The only thing I can think of is the election, where a large majority of seats were won by parties who broadly supported the extrension. As with most things in local politics I've heard it presented as the obvious truth, but against a backdrop of the vast majority of people being largely indifferent either way. Sure, nobody on Leith walk is wild about having more work happen, but it's pretty much situation normal down there. The last few months have been chaos caused by the contractor going bust halfway through some works that didn't provide much benefit at all, and the current chaos is in order to build a giant toley-shaped hotel by the side of the road. At least with the trams they'll get some trams out of it.

 

[asylumxl]

Some people in Edinburgh just like to have a good moan.

They complain the tram goes nowhere useful and when they plan to extend it somewhere useful, they complain about the disruption. I think the level of disruption is also exaggerated, as in my (plentiful) experience of using Leith Walk, it'll only cause real disruption at certain times of day.

It seems empirical evidence won't sway the objectors either, whom claim the trams are carting fresh air all day, when even a small amount of usage of them will show it's definitely not the case.

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[ModernRailways]

It seems empirical evidence won't sway the objectors either, whom claim the trams are carting fresh air all day, when even a small amount of usage of them will show it's definitely not the case.

I still find this a funny reason, since these people must not be using the trams. Every occassion I've been to Edinburgh the trams are always well-loaded throughout the day, even into the night after 9pm.

I do wonder if the people that claim all of this are expecting the trams to be full and standing all day long? And anything less is seen as a failure. Maybe they're trying to compare it to something like the Tube or Metrolink?

 

[jopsuk]

It seems empirical evidence won't sway the objectors either, whom claim the trams are carting fresh air all day, when even a small amount of usage of them will show it's definitely not the case.

People make the same claims about Cambridge Guided Busway, when the reality is people being left behind at peak times

 

[NotATrainspott]

The Council are acutely aware that the road network won't be able to handle the increase in buses necessary with all of the population increases planned for the city. The only way forward is to invest in a higher-capacity transport system, and that means a street running light metro. Edinburgh is exactly the right scale and density for a tram to work well, while it's too small to justify a tunnelled metro.

 

[JamboCommuter]

Good news for all the tram appologists, terrible news for the majority of residents and businesses who are opposed to it.

Rubbish. The majority of people I know in Edinburgh want the tram extension to go ahead. There are a number of ****-stirrers who regularly bombard the the Edinburgh Evening News with their anti tram agenda (possibly taxi drivers who fear for their livelihood). Meanwhile there are thousands more happy regular tram users whose voice is never heard.

The tram extension will create infrastructure for the planned many new home and job opportunities in the north of the city.

The tram moaners just can't accept that the trams are very popular.

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[Robertj21a]

Good news for all the tram appologists, terrible news for the majority of residents and businesses who are opposed to it.

Sounds like those residents and businesses need to get out and travel around the world a bit more. It would be interesting to understand what are their real concerns (if they know).

 

[Altfish]

Good news for all the tram appologists, terrible news for the majority of residents and businesses who are opposed to it.

Ask them to come to Manchester or Nottingham or Birmingham and see what trams have done for those cities. One recent example...
The Trafford Centre extension in Manchester currently being constructed passes a hotel that has been closed for at least 20-years. The line is not yet open but the hotel has been bought and is to be refurbished and re-opened.
There is no reason trams can't do the same for Edinburgh.

 

[Carntyne]

With the previous works on the route, have the services diversions already been completed, making the track laying simpler?

 

[InOban]

I believe there is still significant work to be done right at the York Place Leith walk junction.

 

[oldman]

From Edinburgh Trams

Customer journeys increased by more than one million to total 6.6 million for the year [2018]. This represented a year on year growth of 19 per cent.

One of the reasons for success is linked [sic] to a new timetable which was launched at the beginning of last year to increase capacity, improve frequency and reduce journey times. The new service sees trams running from every seven minutes and connecting Edinburgh’s airport with the City Centre in under 35 minutes. Trials are now underway to double frequency at peak periods to keep up with the rising demand.

I haven't noticed the reduced journey times. My impression is that trams are not being given such priority along Princes Street as when they started so maybe they have been accelerated on the dedicated part.

They are increasing the single airport fare to £6 (bus staying at 4.50) but holding the return at £8.50 (bus 7.50). Slightly undercutting the bus for city return journeys (3.20 vs. 3.40) but otherwise following Lothian.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Staff have voted for industrial action.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-46350178

 

[Bletchleyite]

Staff have voted for industrial action.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-46350178

"Unite does not want to play Scrooge by interrupting Christmas travel for Edinburgh's citizens

Well, don't, then.

That said, the tram is a relative irrelevance in Edinburgh's great public transport scheme, and I'm sure people will just go by bus instead.

 

[Butts]

Well, don't, then.

That said, the tram is a relative irrelevance in Edinburgh's great public transport scheme, and I'm sure people will just go by bus instead.

You are not taking into account all those people who use it to access Edinburgh Gateway aka "Edinburgh White Elephant"

I did last Tuesday on an outward and inward journey to Rosyth and can confirm said station is still the Rail "Marie Celeste"

 

[kilonewton]

That said, the tram is a relative irrelevance in Edinburgh's great public transport scheme, and I'm sure people will just go by bus instead.

Loadings from Ingliston have always been good whenever I’ve used it.

Also, I’m not generally a supporter of strikes, and the results of ballots tend to be questionable given the usually low turnout, but on this occasion it was an overwhelmingly well supported ballot, and a clear result. There may be some substance to the complaints.