Edinburgh Tram developments

92002

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St Andrews Square would be the closest tram stop to Waverley. Picardy Place tram stop is going to be located in the middle of a roundabout, so it's quite hostile for pedestrian access, unless you enjoy waiting at traffic lights.
If you know your way into Waverley from the top end of Leith Walk, to the Eastern entrance it's quite an easy trip with using lifts to the station. So quite User friendly. Not so much if you use the stairs. So Picardy Place could be an interchange too. St Andrews Square to Waverley is just as challenging an interchange.
 
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devon_metro

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If you know your way into Waverley from the top end of Leith Walk, to the Eastern entrance it's quite an easy trip with using lifts to the station. So quite User friendly. Not so much if you use the stairs. So Picardy Place could be an interchange too. St Andrews Square to Waverley is just as challenging an interchange.

Good point, although the Calton Road entrance isn't the most obvious. The gradient up to Leith Street is quite severe too.

The roundabout has been removed. The tram stop will be built right here, metres away from the current York Place tram stop: https://goo.gl/maps/iG2kHVzqur4CQjDT6

It's an enlarged roundabout / gyratory. Fact is, to access the tram platforms you need to cross a road from all directions and none of the pedestrian crossing timings are particularly good if you're on foot. No doubt they'll be even worse once the tram gets priority at the junctions.
 
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Good point, although the Calton Road entrance isn't the most obvious. The gradient up to Leith Street is quite severe too.



It's an enlarged roundabout / gyratory. Fact is, to access the tram platforms you need to cross a road from all directions and none of the pedestrian crossing timings are particularly good if you're on foot. No doubt they'll be even worse once the tram gets priority at the junctions.
From my experience the lights when crossing into and out of the middle (where the tram stop will be) are often faster, I think it’s the way the signals work out as they’re not equally balanced between each street due to the traffic flows. No doubt when trams start they’ll be given priority over the traffic meaning that’ll disrupt the flow even further.
 

JamboCommuter

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I'm surprised the Picardy Place stop hasn't been renamed 'St James Quarter'.

I believe the new St James Quarter Shopping /Leisure centre is due to open in phases from June this year so will be fully open when the tram line is up and running.

Picardy Place although well known to Edinburgh citizens is a relatively short street of no great relevance.

The tram stop will be only a 5 minute walk from the new shopping mall.
 

HamBuoy

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I'm surprised the Picardy Place stop hasn't been renamed 'St James Quarter'.

I believe the new St James Quarter Shopping /Leisure centre is due to open in phases from June this year so will be fully open when the tram line is up and running.

Picardy Place although well known to Edinburgh citizens is a relatively short street of no great relevance.

The tram stop will be only a 5 minute walk from the new shopping mall.
It does leave open the possibility of St James Quarter paying TfE to 'sponsor' the stop in future to rename it St James Quarter.
 

duncanp

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It does leave open the possibility of St James Quarter paying TfE to 'sponsor' the stop in future to rename it St James Quarter.

Rather like the tram stop in Birmingham outside New Street Station which is named Grand Central (for New Street Station) rather than New Street Station (for Grand Central shopping centre)

Still, it is good to see the trams in Edinburgh expanding.

As a former student at Heriot-Watt University, I think there is some value in a branch off the existing line at Bankhead to run up to the Calder Road, and then on to the Park & Ride at Hermiston and Riccarton Campus. I would have thought that these two locations would generate a significant amount of traffic for the trams, especially if it connects with the trains at Edinburgh Park, which would avoid the long slog on the bus to Haymarket in order to catch a train.
 

overthewater

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Didn't the St James centre Give the trams an interest free loan to help pay for the line to be extended down leith walk?
 

OmniCity999

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Didn't the St James centre Give the trams an interest free loan to help pay for the line to be extended down leith walk?
As i understand it:

The only financial interests St James Quarter have in the extension are for public realm works between the new tram stop and John Lewis. Specifically outside St Mary's and on the West side of Leith Street.

The same situation with any other larger businesses along the route inc. Scottish Water, Scottish Gas, Scottish Power, Virgin, BT (and other utilities owners), Ocean Terminal & Forth Ports.
 
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dm1

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From my experience the lights when crossing into and out of the middle (where the tram stop will be) are often faster, I think it’s the way the signals work out as they’re not equally balanced between each street due to the traffic flows. No doubt when trams start they’ll be given priority over the traffic meaning that’ll disrupt the flow even further.
In many places it's standard practice to set pedestrian signals leading to a tram stop to green as a tram arrives (the logic being that pedestrians would otherwise cross on red in order not to miss the tram once they have seen it, so it is safer to give them green)
 

overthewater

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As i understand it:

The only financial interests St James Quarter have in the extension are for public realm works between the new tram stop and John Lewis. Specifically outside St Mary's and on the West side of Leith Street.

The same situation with any other larger businesses along the route inc. Scottish Water, Scottish Gas, Scottish Power, Virgin, BT (and other utilities owners), Ocean Terminal & Forth Ports.

The only ref I can find come from a few years ago now:



Last week, Edinburgh council announced a business case to extend trams to Leith, estimated to cost £80m. Proposed funding for the line is expected to come from the St James Centre developer.
 

OmniCity999

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The only ref I can find come from a few years ago now:

I had read that, but was led to believe it didnt go ahead? and that it was being covered by Lothian and public money.

Maybe one for an FOI request...
 

devon_metro

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In many places it's standard practice to set pedestrian signals leading to a tram stop to green as a tram arrives (the logic being that pedestrians would otherwise cross on red in order not to miss the tram once they have seen it, so it is safer to give them green)

Based on the current light timings and where the tram would likely fit into those phases, I think it's unlikely pedestrians are going to have any ability to dash over to the island on the green man, at least at the Broughton Street junction.
 

och aye

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Rather like the tram stop in Birmingham outside New Street Station which is named Grand Central (for New Street Station) rather than New Street Station (for Grand Central shopping centre)

Still, it is good to see the trams in Edinburgh expanding.

As a former student at Heriot-Watt University, I think there is some value in a branch off the existing line at Bankhead to run up to the Calder Road, and then on to the Park & Ride at Hermiston and Riccarton Campus. I would have thought that these two locations would generate a significant amount of traffic for the trams, especially if it connects with the trains at Edinburgh Park, which would avoid the long slog on the bus to Haymarket in order to catch a train.
There was a report that came out suggesting a link to Heriot-Watt as a long-term extension. I agree with you, a line out from Edinburgh Park station > Hermiston Park & Ride > Heriot-Watt research campus > Heriot-Watt University > Curriehill station (?) would be very useful for students and staff who live off campus. Heriot-Watt does have detached vibe from the city about it due to its location.

It does leave open the possibility of St James Quarter paying TfE to 'sponsor' the stop in future to rename it St James Quarter.
Do you know if the owners of the Ocean Terminal are paying a "sponsorship" for the tram stop outside their shopping centre?
 

fgwrich

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There was a report that came out suggesting a link to Heriot-Watt as a long-term extension. I agree with you, a line out from Edinburgh Park station > Hermiston Park & Ride > Heriot-Watt research campus > Heriot-Watt University > Curriehill station (?) would be very useful for students and staff who live off campus. Heriot-Watt does have detached vibe from the city about it due to its location.


Do you know if the owners of the Ocean Terminal are paying a "sponsorship" for the tram stop outside their shopping centre?

I wonder if the whole Sponsorship of Tram stops may now be off the table after the "Intu Trafford Centre" business in Manchester. Unless a more plainer form of sponsorship is chosen?
 

OmniCity999

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I wonder if the whole Sponsorship of Tram stops may now be off the table after the "Intu Trafford Centre" business in Manchester. Unless a more plainer form of sponsorship is chosen?
I'm not aware of the issue you mentioned in Manchester, but surely it should just go something like this:

The sponsor would pay a fee, in return the stop would possibly be named after them and they provide any advertisement material. This means the stop and surrounding infrastructure is still in keeping with the rest of the infrastructure, which is all maintained by the operator or their contractors. The contract would then run for 1,3 or 5 years, being reviewed regularly. The sponsor and operating company would also make sure the deal is fair on both sides. I.E. The stop would be named after the sponsor and contain related advertising material, in return (in Edinburgh's case) maybe St James Quarter would advertise the tram regularly and the tram company would have a modest presence inside St James Quarter in some way. Maybe ticket sellers, advertising, a lounge (like the Airport) or office space/staff welfare space of some sort, maybe staff discounts at food outlets.

Surely the best way to do it?
 

NotATrainspott

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I remember a fair bit of excitement after the trams were launched about the possible value of sponsorship. Qatar Airways were the first sponsor, if I remember correctly. Then, a few years later, the actual value of the sponsorship was revealed in the Edinburgh Trams accounts. It was only a tiny fraction of what was hoped.

I doubt that the St James developers would be interested in sponsoring the Picardy Place stop given that it's not really any closer to their centre than the St Andrew Square one is. This is a very densely packed area of the city centre where there are a lot of attractions. It's not like an out of town retail park where there's no other reason to visit.
 

fgwrich

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I'm not aware of the issue you mentioned in Manchester, but surely it should just go something like this:

The inns and outs of it were mentioned in this thread, after Intu, sponsors of the Intu Trafford Centre tram stop, folded. Would TfE want the risk if a similar situation occurs to either the operators of Ocean Terminal or St James? Perhaps they could have sponsorship on the tram stops, as you see at some railway stations, than adding in a commercial name / brand?

 

Ceat0908

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The inns and outs of it were mentioned in this thread, after Intu, sponsors of the Intu Trafford Centre tram stop, folded. Would TfE want the risk if a similar situation occurs to either the operators of Ocean Terminal or St James? Perhaps they could have sponsorship on the tram stops, as you see at some railway stations, than adding in a commercial name / brand?

Edinburgh airport tram stop and Rbs gogarburn have advertisements on them. Edinburgh airport though, is a sponsorship from Transport for edinburgh and just eat bikes.... so not sure if that is actually making them any money. Rbs gogarburn stop did have Rbs advertisements on them. Not sure if it does now as it is possibly the least used tram stop on the line at the moment.

I remember a fair bit of excitement after the trams were launched about the possible value of sponsorship. Qatar Airways were the first sponsor, if I remember correctly. Then, a few years later, the actual value of the sponsorship was revealed in the Edinburgh Trams accounts. It was only a tiny fraction of what was hoped.

I doubt that the St James developers would be interested in sponsoring the Picardy Place stop given that it's not really any closer to their centre than the St Andrew Square one is. This is a very densely packed area of the city centre where there are a lot of attractions. It's not like an out of town retail park where there's no other reason to visit.
The Qatar sponsorship ended up making them very little money because their was some sort of dispute.
 

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