Edinburgh Tram developments

[b55ailsa]

I don't know where to put this post in new on forum so forgive if wrong place. I used to work on the trams as a conductor
Here's my experience this is honest as they come review

First off it was ok but you need thick skin. You need to stand ground.

1. Benefits they were ok. Perk box via hsf. But that's standard though in most jobs Free travel if you stay in Edinburgh and Lothians or even visiting Edinburgh.

2. Work life balance. Forget it you could be working anytime from 04:30 to 00:30 on your feet all time during busy times.

3. Rest stops Being the conductor and if your needing to go to toilet you only got airport but if your running late forget that as they use the airport for catch up. You got the depot or Haymarket. But you need to ask if you can leave the tram to go to these toilets how demeaning as it's a human right

4. It's a driver orientated company you get no help from management or TL. For example they expect you to get onfare fares if no-one pays but of they refuse to do so you can't make them pay.
They expect you to have the luggage on the trams luggage racks bit you can't enforce the rules passenger to put luggage away if the refuse. But you still get in trouble by management or TL if they come on the tram and see luggage everywhere.

5. Work colleagues. It's a cliques environment. Certain drivers and VMAs no naming names but if they don't like you makes it hard for you. They even spread lies about you. there attitude stinks and expect personal attacks against you if you stand up to them. They knows who they are worse of all they are a mental health ambassador too This same goes for couple of Tsa too they don't care about you. They will grass you in for anything while they will do the same they know who they are as they are backstabbing. So as I said it's a cliques and backstabbing culture with some work colleagues.

6. Passenger. You do get to build a report with them but beware youths especially when they get on at balgreen or saughton as they might cause trouble.

7. Career progression. If your face fits you will get any job you want. They say it's fare and you can build up the ladder bit it doesn't happen. If it doesn't you should look elsewhere for a job.

8. If you want a job on the railway is ScotRail it the easiest way into it but again it a elements of luck to get there.

Now why I left. Mostly with comment 7. But also I was attacked at Murrayfeild at a rugby game. I used reasonable force but because i pushed a passenger back they saw that as an assault on a passenger. They would rather you get punched and who knows maybe worse than protect yourself. Now the pay

Just let's say depending on your job role as mines was a conductor it was less than 20k (might have went up but when I was there top rate was 19600 a year)

If you want to work for the trams I'm not stopping you But as said this is my view of the company I feel there's better jobs out there and lot better payed.

 

[Butts]

I don't know where to put this post in new on forum so forgive if wrong place. I used to work on the trams as a conductor
Here's my experience this is honest as they come review

First off it was ok but you need thick skin. You need to stand ground.

1. Benefits they were ok. Perk box via hsf. But that's standard though in most jobs Free travel if you stay in Edinburgh and Lothians or even visiting Edinburgh.

2. Work life balance. Forget it you could be working anytime from 04:30 to 00:30 on your feet all time during busy times.

3. Rest stops Being the conductor and if your needing to go to toilet you only got airport but if your running late forget that as they use the airport for catch up. You got the depot or Haymarket. But you need to ask if you can leave the tram to go to these toilets how demeaning as it's a human right

4. It's a driver orientated company you get no help from management or TL. For example they expect you to get onfare fares if no-one pays but of they refuse to do so you can't make them pay.
They expect you to have the luggage on the trams luggage racks bit you can't enforce the rules passenger to put luggage away if the refuse. But you still get in trouble by management or TL if they come on the tram and see luggage everywhere.

5. Work colleagues. It's a cliques environment. Certain drivers and VMAs no naming names but if they don't like you makes it hard for you. They even spread lies about you. there attitude stinks and expect personal attacks against you if you stand up to them. They knows who they are worse of all they are a mental health ambassador too This same goes for couple of Tsa too they don't care about you. They will grass you in for anything while they will do the same they know who they are as they are backstabbing. So as I said it's a cliques and backstabbing culture with some work colleagues.

6. Passenger. You do get to build a report with them but beware youths especially when they get on at balgreen or saughton as they might cause trouble.

7. Career progression. If your face fits you will get any job you want. They say it's fare and you can build up the ladder bit it doesn't happen. If it doesn't you should look elsewhere for a job.

8. If you want a job on the railway is ScotRail it the easiest way into it but again it a elements of luck to get there.

Now why I left. Mostly with comment 7. But also I was attacked at Murrayfeild at a rugby game. I used reasonable force but because i pushed a passenger back they saw that as an assault on a passenger. They would rather you get punched and who knows maybe worse than protect yourself. Now the pay

Just let's say depending on your job role as mines was a conductor it was less than 20k (might have went up but when I was there top rate was 19600 a year)

If you want to work for the trams I'm not stopping you But as said this is my view of the company I feel there's better jobs out there and lot better payed.

Did you at least get a "paid rest" during a lot of the pandemic ?

Conductor's were rare as "hen's teeth" for a large part of that enabling free travel for the unscrupulous

 

[b55ailsa]

Did you at least get a "paid rest" during a lot of the pandemic ?

Conductor's were rare as "hen's teeth" for a large part of that enabling free travel for the unscrupulous

My own circumstances I found alternative employment via an old job through pandemic but we were on furlough as I couldn't afford only 80% wages. I don't know about others but being single and having a flat etc to pay for bills to pay and day to day expenses I had to find other employment

 

[InOban]

This sounds like very poor management. This information should go past them to the holding company (is it still TIE?). Of course since it is majority owned by the Council, you could speak to a local Councillor.

As regards point 3, there will be rest facilities at the Newhaven terminal.

 

[Vespa]

Interesting comments talking about the things people don't see.

I've done public facing roles even in transport museum environment you do get cliques and challenging passengers and my other job was similar until I moved over to driving 7.5t wagons it was great ! No public and no cliques to deal with as I'm on my own most of the time.

 

[Ex-controller]

I don't know where to put this post in new on forum so forgive if wrong place. I used to work on the trams as a conductor
Here's my experience this is honest as they come review

First off it was ok but you need thick skin. You need to stand ground.

1. Benefits they were ok. Perk box via hsf. But that's standard though in most jobs Free travel if you stay in Edinburgh and Lothians or even visiting Edinburgh.

2. Work life balance. Forget it you could be working anytime from 04:30 to 00:30 on your feet all time during busy times.

3. Rest stops Being the conductor and if your needing to go to toilet you only got airport but if your running late forget that as they use the airport for catch up. You got the depot or Haymarket. But you need to ask if you can leave the tram to go to these toilets how demeaning as it's a human right

4. It's a driver orientated company you get no help from management or TL. For example they expect you to get onfare fares if no-one pays but of they refuse to do so you can't make them pay.
They expect you to have the luggage on the trams luggage racks bit you can't enforce the rules passenger to put luggage away if the refuse. But you still get in trouble by management or TL if they come on the tram and see luggage everywhere.

5. Work colleagues. It's a cliques environment. Certain drivers and VMAs no naming names but if they don't like you makes it hard for you. They even spread lies about you. there attitude stinks and expect personal attacks against you if you stand up to them. They knows who they are worse of all they are a mental health ambassador too This same goes for couple of Tsa too they don't care about you. They will grass you in for anything while they will do the same they know who they are as they are backstabbing. So as I said it's a cliques and backstabbing culture with some work colleagues.

6. Passenger. You do get to build a report with them but beware youths especially when they get on at balgreen or saughton as they might cause trouble.

7. Career progression. If your face fits you will get any job you want. They say it's fare and you can build up the ladder bit it doesn't happen. If it doesn't you should look elsewhere for a job.

8. If you want a job on the railway is ScotRail it the easiest way into it but again it a elements of luck to get there.

Now why I left. Mostly with comment 7. But also I was attacked at Murrayfeild at a rugby game. I used reasonable force but because i pushed a passenger back they saw that as an assault on a passenger. They would rather you get punched and who knows maybe worse than protect yourself. Now the pay

Just let's say depending on your job role as mines was a conductor it was less than 20k (might have went up but when I was there top rate was 19600 a year)

If you want to work for the trams I'm not stopping you But as said this is my view of the company I feel there's better jobs out there and lot better payed.

Surely you should’ve been given a personal needs break some time during your shift? That’s a legal requirement.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The bags on racks rule on the trams is one I’ve never understood. If it’s any suitcase I can totally get it but if it’s my own smallish rucksack I really don’t see what benefit it is being on the rack, not to mention I then can’t see it either. It was the little things like this that put me off using the tram altogether and I haven’t used one now in well over a year.

 

[Vespa]

The bags on racks rule on the trams is one I’ve never understood. If it’s any suitcase I can totally get it but if it’s my own smallish rucksack I really don’t see what benefit it is being on the rack, not to mention I then can’t see it either. It was the little things like this that put me off using the tram altogether and I haven’t used one now in well over a year.

The tram goes to Edinburgh airport AND the crack is for their suitcases, It's a plus for those going to the shopping centre along the way too.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The tram goes to Edinburgh airport AND the crack is for their suitcases, It's a plus for those going to the shopping centre along the way too.

But for somebody like me who would use the tram for a less than 10 minute journey a rule like this is totally ridiculous. It does not compromise safety keeping it on your person. Suitcases yes, my small rucksack no.

 

[HamBuoy]

Page 151

https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/documents/g6429/Public%20reports%20pack%2008th-Dec-2022%2010.00%20Transport%20and%20Environment%20Committee.pdf?T=10

 

[Vespa]

But for somebody like me who would use the tram for a less than 10 minute journey a rule like this is totally ridiculous. It does not compromise safety keeping it on your person. Suitcases yes, my small rucksack no.

I don't make the rules, its just my observation, I have seen it used for large and small suitcases.

 

[och aye]

Council to look at extending the tram line.

Council reveals latest thinking on new tram extension from Granton to Dalkeith

Trams could go via Edinburgh’s Orchard Brae instead of Roseburn

www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com

Edinburgh trams: Hopes government could fund new tram route from Granton to Dalkeith

Plans for another extension of Edinburgh’s tram line, linking Granton to Dalkeith through the city centre, are set to be considered by the council early next year.

And instead of taking over the Roseburn cycle path as part of the tram route, council leaders signalled they were now interested in running the trams via Orchard Brae.

The proposed north-south extension is central to plans for a “mass rapid transit corridor” to reduce congestion and streamline public transport across south-east Scotland to meet the needs of the region’s growing population. If approved it would double the length of the existing line, including the new section through Leith which is due to open in the spring. And the council said it will make the case for it to be considered as a piece of national infrastructure, meaning the Scottish Government would meet the cost.
Under the latest expansion plans, trams could go from Granton to Dalkeith via Orchard Brae.

As work on the Newhaven line nears completion, city councillors will be presented with a new public transport action plan setting out options for a line from Granton to the city centre and then towards the Royal Infirmary and Edinburgh BioQuarter. Potential future tram routes beyond this, included in a map published by the council, show extensions to link up with Sherrifhall park and ride, Newcraighall and Shawfair train stations and as far as Dalkeith. However, expansion of the network beyond the city’s boundary is likely to be many years off, with current estimations indicating the Granton to BioQuarter line would not be open until at least 2032. This would likely be completed by one contractor in two phases – Granton to city centre and city centre to BioQuarter – although it is not yet known which would come first.

In Edinburgh’s original tram plan, before the project was scaled-back amid huge delays and soaring construction costs, the second phase was intended to deliver a new track from from the city centre to Granton via Roseburn, Ravelston and Craigleith.

However, transport chiefs are now eyeing-up a “preferred” alternative route through Orchard Brae and Crewe Toll, turning right at the end of Princes Street instead of continuing to Haymarket, as this would serve more residential areas. But it would pose serious challenges of its own for engineers as it’s unlikely tracks could be laid over The Dean Bridge.

Transport convener Scott Arthur said: "No decision has been made yet, but people do see the cycle route as being the default, whereas councillors will have to make more of a decision on that. Roseburn is attractive because it’s a former railway line, but there are accessibility issues there, whereas this newer route goes right through residential areas and may connect better for people. Orchard Brae would be more complex but could bring more benefits.
Hide Ad

“We’ll listen to residents on which route we should pick but we’re committed to delivering the biggest ever expansion of public transport in Edinburgh. We’re making the case to the Scottish Government for this being a piece of national infrastructure. And that means they start to think about funding it and that’s really important.”

No estimate has been given for the cost of the proposed expansion. Construction of the initial tram line was marred by controversies after the total price reached £776m – more than double the original estimate of £375m. A public inquiry sparked by the failures, which is still to release its findings eight years after it was first announced, has also gained notoriety for its £13m price tag – the same as the Chilcot Inquiry into the Iraq War.

 

[Butts]

They need to reduce the fare to the Airport ???

I have been in Florence , Italy where the single fare to the Airport is Euro 1.50 for about the same length of Journey.

Perhaps if they got rid of the Conductors they could afford to do this ?

The fine in Florence for no ticket is 250 Euros

 

[devon_metro]

They need to reduce the fare to the Airport ???

I have been in Florence , Italy where the single fare to the Airport is Euro 1.50 for about the same length of Journey.

Perhaps if they got rid of the Conductors they could afford to do this ?

The fine in Florence for no ticket is 250 Euros

The airport charge is set by the airport, not the trams. Besides, the best way of getting between the city centre and the airport is the 100 bus (with the exception of during the Higland Show in June). The tram takes such a tedious route round the houses for it to be a true airport service.

 

[davetheguard]

The airport charge is set by the airport, not the trams. Besides, the best way of getting between the city centre and the airport is the 100 bus (with the exception of during the Higland Show in June). The tram takes such a tedious route round the houses for it to be a true airport service.

Can't say I've used either, because I tend to use the train if travelling to Scotland.

But I don't really understand a transport policy, where you spend millions building transport infrastructure (good!) and then price people off it!

 

[takno]

Can't say I've used either, because I tend to use the train if travelling to Scotland.

But I don't really understand a transport policy, where you spend millions building transport infrastructure (good!) and then price people off it!

From the airport's point of view they are reducing charges to their most powerful customers (the airlines), and piling as much cost as possible on the less powerful passengers. The public transport charges have to be seen in the context of the expensive paid drop-off points, the extra charges to taxis, and the premium they charge car-park and car hire operators to use the airport.

Certainly the airport operator should be stopped from doing this, partly by being fined for too many of their passengers arriving by car, and partly because it's an appalling anti-consumer practice. That's definitely a central government problem though, not something the council can fix.

 

[roadierway77]

Council to look at extending the tram line.

Council reveals latest thinking on new tram extension from Granton to Dalkeith

Trams could go via Edinburgh’s Orchard Brae instead of Roseburn

www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com

Edinburgh trams: Hopes government could fund new tram route from Granton to Dalkeith

Going via Orchard Brae seems silly to me - yes it would serve more residential areas, but using the Roseburn path would be far easier and likely far cheaper and avoid the headache of crossing the Water of Leith at the Dean Bridge, and Queensferry Street is congested enough as it is. Plus using the Roseburn path has the benefit of creating a proper 'active travel corridor', serving Craigleith Retail Park, and would be relatively easy to incorporate into the current service pattern by extending the future Newhaven-Haymarket services

 

[InOban]

The issue is that the Roseburn section has become an increasingly important walk and cycle route.

I'm not sure why it should be difficult to put trams on Queensferry Road across the Water of Leith, the OHLE poles will replace the existing street lights as they are on Leith Walk.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I very much doubt the government will give them any more money and if it's anything like the last couple of times that won't stop them. They will just mortgage the city for yet another generation to pay off. And I can't help wondering with the growth of electric buses if the time 4 building more light rail infrastructure is now not at an end, I mean you can divert an electric bus in 3 minutes. It would take you minimum three years to even think about diverting a tramway in future

 

[K.o.R]

The airport charge is set by the airport, not the trams. Besides, the best way of getting between the city centre and the airport is the 100 bus (with the exception of during the Highland Show in June). The tram takes such a tedious route round the houses for it to be a true airport service.

See also: Manchester Metrolink.

 

[clc]

Buses can’t match trams for capacity and speed.

 

[takno]

Buses can’t match trams for capacity and speed.

They can if you use single deckers and drive slowly enough

 

[scotrail158713]

Buses can’t match trams for capacity and speed.

In Edinburgh they do though - both the tram and Airlink 100 are approximately 30-35 minutes (traffic dependent) between the airport and Princes Street.

 

[The exile]

I very much doubt the government will give them any more money and if it's anything like the last couple of times that won't stop them. They will just mortgage the city for yet another generation to pay off. And I can't help wondering with the growth of electric buses if the time 4 building more light rail infrastructure is now not at an end, I mean you can divert an electric bus in 3 minutes. It would take you minimum three years to even think about diverting a tramway in future

Which is of course one of the things likely to reassure people planning their future round the use of public transport. A bus service can be rerouted and become less useful at the drop of a hat - trams and trains are much more likely still to be there in 6 months’ / a year’s or even ten years’ time.

See also: Manchester Metrolink.

Unlike Edinburgh, Manchester Airport has a rail link for the quickish transit direct to the city centre

 

[roadierway77]

The issue is that the Roseburn section has become an increasingly important walk and cycle route.

I'm not sure why it should be difficult to put trams on Queensferry Road across the Water of Leith, the OHLE poles will replace the existing street lights as they are on Leith Walk.

I don't see why the cycle/walk path could be retained, hence creating an active travel corridor - yes it would require a lot of work, but converting the path to tram would require extensive work to bridges etc anyway, as it looks like most them would not be wide enough for tram tracks.

In my opinion Queensferry Road is just too congested for trams. It's a narrow street and can often get clogged up full of buses and pedestrians, and even if you were to withdraw a couple of Lothian routes from that road, you still have the issue of all the Stagecoach/Citylink expresses stopping there, alongside the 43 and 13. And I feel like there would be opposition to putting trams on the Dean Bridge - some would be bound to complain about the visual impact and noise pollution (though it really wouldn't be much greater, if at all more than how it as at the moment). Plus the bridge is grade A listed so it may not even be possible to put trams over it at all.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Plus the bridge is grade A listed so it may not even be possible to put trams over it at all.

I highly doubt the council would be planning this is as the preferred route if this prevented it. As much as it’s daft in our eyes this is more than likely to be the route that they pick. The council are obsessed with bikes now so I can’t see them investing in all of the works needed on the Ferry Road/Roseburn Path.

Wasn’t this line single track back in BR days anyway? I’m sure it was.

 

[davetheguard]

Which is of course one of the things likely to reassure people planning their future round the use of public transport. A bus service can be rerouted and become less useful at the drop of a hat - trams and trains are much more likely still to be there in 6 months’ / a year’s or even ten years’ time.


Unlike Edinburgh, Manchester Airport has a rail link for the quickish transit direct to the city centre

Absolutely spot on. Since de-regulation, bus routes can disapear seemingly overnight. And council-subsidised ones are not much better with all the budget cuts from central government. This is the reason why I would never live anywhere without a railway station, or in this case, a tram stop.

 

[takno]

In my opinion Queensferry Road is just too congested for trams. It's a narrow street and can often get clogged up full of buses and pedestrians, and even if you were to withdraw a couple of Lothian routes from that road, you still have the issue of all the Stagecoach/Citylink expresses stopping there, alongside the 43 and 13.

While I agree with this, it's absolutely nothing compared to the issues with fitting the trams up South Bridge, which is barely wide enough for 4 lanes even with narrow pavements already jammed with pedestrians, is inescaply a route for longer distance buses, and is lined with shops and tenements that don't have any rear access for deliveries. The whole north-south line is a complete fantasy which will fall apart in detailed planning.

 

[eoff]

The question recently arose as to the time the tram and bus take for journeys to the airport. My experience on Tuesday at a non-busy time was

Airport bus 100 departs 0631 from South St David's St (delayed 1m by bus driver chatting with someone at the stop, likely another employee)
Tram passes bus as it waits for red light to turn on to Princes St.
Bus came to halt at airport stop outside departures at 0654 (short delay caused by getting in the road barrier)
(I go and talk to the checkin staff and then go to the tram stop to see the tram arrive, I had been watching its progress on the app)
The same tram came to a halt at the airport opening doors at 07:02:35 (half a minute early).

 

[Austriantrain]

The question recently arose as to the time the tram and bus take for journeys to the airport. My experience on Tuesday at a non-busy time was

Airport bus 100 departs 0631 from South St David's St (delayed 1m by bus driver chatting with someone at the stop, likely another employee)
Tram passes bus as it waits for red light to turn on to Princes St.
Bus came to halt at airport stop outside departures at 0654 (short delay caused by getting in the road barrier)
(I go and talk to the checkin staff and then go to the tram stop to see the tram arrive, I had been watching its progress on the app)
The same tram came to a halt at the airport opening doors at 07:02:35 (half a minute early).

Seriously, how can a dedicated airport bus with - IIRC - few stops be compared to a tram whose primary purpose is not airport transport from Waverley (if it were, the bus would not run anymore).

Honestly, from anywhere outside of Edinburgh this whole topic is more than surreal.