Edinburgh Tram developments

[eoff]

Seriously, how can a dedicated airport bus with - IIRC - few stops be compared to a tram whose primary purpose is not airport transport from Waverley (if it were, the bus would not run anymore).

Honestly, from anywhere outside of Edinburgh this whole topic is more than surreal.

It is true that the tram has a few more stops.
Those in Edinburgh have taken a keen interest in this comparison for a very long time. Here is an example from the Internet Archive..

Edinburgh trams ‘will be as quick as buses’

TRAM chiefs in the capital have insisted that the new service should be as speedy as the airport express bus – despite claims it could be eight minutes slower.

web.archive.org

 

[edwin_m]

The question recently arose as to the time the tram and bus take for journeys to the airport. My experience on Tuesday at a non-busy time was

Airport bus 100 departs 0631 from South St David's St (delayed 1m by bus driver chatting with someone at the stop, likely another employee)
Tram passes bus as it waits for red light to turn on to Princes St.
Bus came to halt at airport stop outside departures at 0654 (short delay caused by getting in the road barrier)
(I go and talk to the checkin staff and then go to the tram stop to see the tram arrive, I had been watching its progress on the app)
The same tram came to a halt at the airport opening doors at 07:02:35 (half a minute early).

How would that comparison fare at busier times of day? Presumably the bus is more at risk of traffic delays.

 

[takno]

How would that comparison fare at busier times of day? Presumably the bus is more at risk of traffic delays.

Not noticeably. I've never seen a journey where the tram would have been faster, and only one or two where the tram was within 5 minutes of the bus. The trouble is that the tram is stuck in there with the rest of the traffic on the busy sections, and it has a longer route, more stops and a number of really slow curves to get round. In terms of getting to the airport it really has absolutely nothing going for it.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Not noticeably. I've never seen a journey where the tram would have been faster, and only one or two where the tram was within 5 minutes of the bus. The trouble is that the tram is stuck in there with the rest of the traffic on the busy sections, and it has a longer route, more stops and a number of really slow curves to get round. In terms of getting to the airport it really has absolutely nothing going for it.

I find the tram is very often standing room only all day too, even in the off-peak. I think the vehicles have relatively few seats for their length because they have so many doors and vestibules.
Whereas I've never seen the 100 with passengers standing out of necessity before.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Whereas I've never seen the 100 with passengers standing out of necessity before.

That’s probably partly because they try to avoid standing on the 100 at all. It’s not unknown for you to be told to sit down if you get up too early prior to the stop.

 

[computerSaysNo]

That’s probably partly because they try to avoid standing on the 100 at all. It’s not unknown for you to be told to sit down if you get up too early prior to the stop.

Ah, I didn't know that. Presumably though if all the seats were taken they wouldn't stop you getting on and standing.

 

[Scotrail314209]

The 100 usually has standees on the early 03:00, 03:30 and 04:00 departures to the Airport due to the fact they hit the peak flight times for the morning.

I wonder if every 15 minutes between 03:00 and 04:00 would help avoid this.

The standees are mainly due to people having heavy luggage and not wanting to leave it unattended.

The only annoying thing is, it leads to people blocking the exit door with their big cases, as I did once see a lady trip over someone’s case and fall out onto the pavement.

 

[eoff]

How would that comparison fare at busier times of day? Presumably the bus is more at risk of traffic delays.

I don't have a good feel for this, I expect both to be slower and the bus more so but it would take quite a few journeys to get a feel for it. At busy times I would most likely be switching between a train and tram connecting at Haymarket, Edinburgh Park or Gateway to avoid using a bus/tram for the Haymarket to St Andrews Square part. The other part of my journey would be to/from Waverley.

The advent of the trams has definitely increased my choices though and I'm keen to try further afield when the new lines start.

 

[Siemens Trains]

I don't have a good feel for this, I expect both to be slower and the bus more so but it would take quite a few journeys to get a feel for it. At busy times I would most likely be switching between a train and tram connecting at Haymarket, Edinburgh Park or Gateway to avoid using a bus/tram for the Haymarket to St Andrews Square part. The other part of my journey would be to/from Waverley.

The advent of the trams has definitely increased my choices though and I'm keen to try further afield when the new lines start.

Certainly can work out well in terms of journey time if you're lucky - or if planned meticulously. And that's the problem. I can't imagine many people opting for another train following their arrival at Waverley then changing to a tram at Haymarket, Edinburgh Park or Gateway stations. Then the ticketing complexities or high cost when changing to the TfE bus or tram services or buying an airport-inclusive train ticket would put most people off.
Living locally I'm reasonably aware of these alternatives but I'd usually take my own car, private hire or taxi when travelling to Edinburgh Airport.

 

[Blindtraveler]

As far as I'm concerned the biggest issue by far with the actual cost of the tram fare to the airport is that if it's more than one person travelling together then from many destinations a taxi becomes a much more viable option. I should imagine this is particularly acute from the new financial district at Edinburgh park and gyle not to mention the royal bank headquarters

 

[SteveP29]

Going via Orchard Brae seems silly to me - yes it would serve more residential areas, but using the Roseburn path would be far easier and likely far cheaper and avoid the headache of crossing the Water of Leith at the Dean Bridge, and Queensferry Street is congested enough as it is. Plus using the Roseburn path has the benefit of creating a proper 'active travel corridor', serving Craigleith Retail Park, and would be relatively easy to incorporate into the current service pattern by extending the future Newhaven-Haymarket services

Correct IMO

Going via Orchard Brae seems silly to me - yes it would serve more residential areas, but using the Roseburn path would be far easier and likely far cheaper and avoid the headache of crossing the Water of Leith at the Dean Bridge, and Queensferry Street is congested enough as it is. Plus using the Roseburn path has the benefit of creating a proper 'active travel corridor', serving Craigleith Retail Park, and would be relatively easy to incorporate into the current service pattern by extending the future Newhaven-Haymarket services

I also think the incline on the south end of Dean Bridge is too steep for trams to negotiate.
It's certainly steeper than the turn onto St Andrews Square from York Place/ Queen Street

 

[InOban]

The old trams used to climb the Mound !
And anyway I think that Orchard Brae is much steeper than the either side of the Dean Bridge

The final rails joining the existing tram route to the extension were welded in last week, completing major infrastructure work. Unfortunately due to the recent weather there is a delay in finally reopening the full length of Leith Walk with road works to be completed after the seasonal break.

 

[och aye]

Video of McDonald Road tram stop

 

[InOban]

Services will terminate at the West End for 7 days from 23rd January while the OHLE is connected between York Place and Picardy P,lace to allow test trams to access the extension.

 

[ld0595]

When are the first tests along the extension expected? Early February then?

 

[Scotrail314209]

When are the first tests along the extension expected? Early February then?

I’d hope not, there’s still a lot of work to be done at about the Newhaven end of the route (walked past today)

Not a lot, but still a lot of stuff (like repaving the tarmac and stuff). Mostly cosmetix

 

[ld0595]

I’d hope not, there’s still a lot of work to be done at about the Newhaven end of the route (walked past today)

Not a lot, but still a lot of stuff (like repaving the tarmac and stuff). Mostly cosmetix

Ah fair enough, I've not actually been down as far as Newhaven since April last year so didn't realise there was more still to do.

 

[InOban]

My understanding is that the tracks and stops are complete but there is a lot to do on terms of paving etc. Also some bits of the concrete has cracked and is being dug out and replaced. If you search for Trams to Newhaven you will know as much as I do.

 

[Mal]

Is there any word as to when Leith Walk will be open fully yet?

 

[zwk500]

My understanding is that the tracks and stops are complete but there is a lot to do on terms of paving etc. Also some bits of the concrete has cracked and is being dug out and replaced. If you search for Trams to Newhaven you will know as much as I do.

Latest newsletter available here: https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/tramst.../680/21-december-2022-project-newsletter-pdf-

Summary paragraph is:

Trams are scheduled to be operational in Leith and Newhaven by Spring 2023. To date 100% of track slab has been laid, and over 9,000 metres of communication and utility ducting has been installed. Main construction works are complete on 7 new tram stops. We've also installed 215 OLE poles, 100% of the total along the route, and have strung 2,723m of overhead cabling, 60% of the total. Over 4,300m of drainage infrastructure has also been installed.

The last line is: "The Trams to Newhaven project remains on schedule to be operational by Spring 2023"

Is there any word as to when Leith Walk will be open fully yet?

At the bottom is this little note:

Two-way traffic will be reintroduced at the Foot of the Walk junction between Great Junction Street and Duke Street during w/c 19 December 2022. The project had planned to reintroduce two-way traffic the length of Leith Walk at the same time. However, the cold weather has meant we have been unable to place concrete and lay road surfacing materials. Two-way traffic the length of Leith Walk is now planned for January 2023

 

[Mal]

Latest newsletter available here: https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/tramst.../680/21-december-2022-project-newsletter-pdf-

Summary paragraph is:

The last line is: "The Trams to Newhaven project remains on schedule to be operational by Spring 2023"

At the bottom is this little note:

That's great! Many thanks.

 

[eoff]

Are there any plans for reasonable running times? Yet again I got caught out by the app telling me there were trams to 'CITY' just before 11pm only to be told that the tram was only going to the depot. There can't be many major airports where the tram service shuts so early.
In toulouse where I just came from the last tram is at 2358.

 

[zwk500]

Are there any plans for reasonable running times? Yet again I got caught out by the app telling me there were trams to 'CITY' just before 11pm only to be told that the tram was only going to the depot. There can't be many major airports where the tram service shuts so early.
In toulouse where I just came from the last tram is at 2358.

Europe has always been better about having public transport later at night in cities. Mind you, for a city like Edinburgh I'd have thought trams could run from the airport at least as far as Haymarket until midnight or so. On a separate note, how many major airports (and that is slightly pushing it for Edinburgh) are connected by tramway at all, let alone as their main Public transport connection?

 

[Dunnyrail]

Europe has always been better about having public transport later at night in cities. Mind you, for a city like Edinburgh I'd have thought trams could run from the airport at least as far as Haymarket until midnight or so. On a separate note, how many major airports (and that is slightly pushing it for Edinburgh) are connected by tramway at all, let alone as their main Public transport connection?

Well Manchester for a start, but would agree may not be many people’s 1st choice except at the moment with the awful service provided by TPE and NR.

 

[takno]

Are there any plans for reasonable running times? Yet again I got caught out by the app telling me there were trams to 'CITY' just before 11pm only to be told that the tram was only going to the depot. There can't be many major airports where the tram service shuts so early.
In toulouse where I just came from the last tram is at 2358.

2248 does seem like a pretty poor finish time from an airport, but it's fairly normal time from the other places the tram serves. I guess when there's a regular bus all night run by the same people costing less and taking less time, then the incentive to run empty trams about the place starts to disappear a bit

 

[zwk500]

Well Manchester for a start, but would agree may not be many people’s 1st choice except at the moment with the awful service provided by TPE and NR.

Good point with Manchester though - don't the trams normally run through the night (I accept it's a tad busier than Edinburgh)?

2248 seems an exceptionally early finish time when there are a significant number of flights apparently booked to arrive later than 2230:

(EDI Arrivals) Edinburgh Airport Arrivals

(EDI Arrivals) Track the current status of flights arriving at (EDI) Edinburgh Airport using FlightStats flight tracker

www.flightstats.com

Including a 2255 which appears to be a 5-way codeshare for a connection out of Heathrow (BA1464 also has American, Finnair, Japanair and Qatar Airways flight numbers).

 

[eoff]

2248 does seem like a pretty poor finish time from an airport, but it's fairly normal time from the other places the tram serves. I guess when there's a regular bus all night run by the same people costing less and taking less time, then the incentive to run empty trams about the place starts to disappear a bit

That's a good point, typically at that time I'm only going part-route and not to a place that has both a bus and tram stop.
I think tourists tend to go for the tram in any case.

 

[Dunnyrail]

Good point with Manchester though - don't the trams normally run through the night (I accept it's a tad busier than Edinburgh)?

2248 seems an exceptionally early finish time when there are a significant number of flights apparently booked to arrive later than 2230:

(EDI Arrivals) Edinburgh Airport Arrivals

(EDI Arrivals) Track the current status of flights arriving at (EDI) Edinburgh Airport using FlightStats flight tracker

www.flightstats.com

Including a 2255 which appears to be a 5-way codeshare for a connection out of Heathrow (BA1464 also has American, Finnair, Japanair and Qatar Airways flight numbers).

Tram service frequency

tfgm.com

 

[zwk500]

Tram service frequency

tfgm.com

Did they used to run a limited service through the night, or have I got it confused with something TPE did?

 

[computerSaysNo]

The Edinburgh tram is not the main public transport to and from the airport. The number 100 bus is, which operates 24/7.
The tram is a City service which just happens to terminate at the airport (I know it's not, but it might as well be, as (a) it operates an indirect route from the airport into Edinburgh, (b) it stops more frequently than the bus into Edinburgh, (c) it runs less frequently than the bus at certain times of day).