Possible plans for Edinburgh Waverley station?

[Poolsharks1]

Does anyone know if there is plans to upgrade Edinburgh waverly? I use that station often and its so depressing. They upgraded haymartket along the road and the station is an absolute pleasure to use.

 

[asylumxl]

Edinburgh Waverley has been upgraded... How often do you use it if you hadn't realised?

Having said that, I believe there are plans for works such as platform extensions planned in the future.

 

[Carntyne]

It's just been extensively modernised. Look up when you're next there too. Brand new roof/glass.

New through platforms on the way though I think.

 

[47271]

I agree that it's confusing and busy, but depressing is a word I would've used to describe Waverley ten years ago.

For me there's nothing more depressing than getting on at Haymarket when all the seats have been taken at Waverley.

I think the main work waiting to be done is the extension of platforms 5 and 6, reaĺly no more than sidings at the moment, into the wasted space where the old taxi rank is. They'll be terminating rather than through however I'm sure?

I wish they'd find a more productive use for that bit of tarmac where the short stay car park used to be by the Calton Road exit. A few market stalls on a Friday isn't really it.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I thought there was a plan to demolish the ramp and turn the reconfigured area into another through road? Even without this 2 extra Easten Bays will be a great help and even if not fully used to start with they will be in future. I hope they will be long enough to take a 10 car IEP so that the problem of East Coast workings laying over in a through road is sorted.

 

[47271]

I thought there was a plan to demolish the ramp and turn the reconfigured area into another through road? Even without this 2 extra Easten Bays will be a great help and even if not fully used to start with they will be in future. I hope they will be long enough to take a 10 car IEP so that the problem of East Coast workings laying over in a through road is sorted.

Oh maybe. It would be some job to take that ramp out though.

 

[Blindtraveler]

On Topic, I think the modernisation work as has been done is fine although fail to see how millions of pounds and 18 months of disruption to replace the Historic Waverley Steps with banks of cheep chinese escalaters that never work is progress?
Id have just built the new lifts, put a roof over the old steps, cleaned up the stonework and put some new lighting and CIS in there.

As a contrast the redesigned Market Street Entrance is fantastic and just what was needed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It would be some job to take that ramp out though.

Indeed it would and dont personally think it would be worth it.

 

[najaB]

Does anyone know if there is plans to upgrade Edinburgh waverly? I use that station often and its so depressing. They upgraded haymartket along the road and the station is an absolute pleasure to use.

Uhm... do you use the same Waverley that I use? There's nothing depressing about it - the only thing I can think of that needs some work is probably a good cleaning of the waiting room walls and ceiling (it would be great to see that artwork in its full glory) and possibly some new furniture.

I believe the current buildings by platform 12 (the CS lounge) will be replaced as part of the platform works as well.

 

[Grumpy]

On Topic, I think the modernisation work as has been done is fine although fail to see how millions of pounds and 18 months of disruption to replace the Historic Waverley Steps with banks of cheep chinese escalaters that never work is progress?

.

Funny how we have different views. Perhaps that's because I've only been when the escalators are working. In my view putting the escalators in has been the best investment anywhere on the UK rail network in recent years. A real boon especially if you are in middle age or older and/or have bags to carry. I don't know if any usage figures have been published but from my observations I reckon at least half the passengers leaving the station now use the escalators.

 

[edwin_m]

Having been a regular user in 1978-1981 I can say with confidence that it is far better now without the years of soot encrusting everything and a bunch of 101 power cars and the odd class 27 constantly pumping out more. The main problem I have as an occasional visitor today is that there are so many more platforms and the signage to find the correct one is far from perfect.

I believe the next stage of expansion is to re-open east end platforms 5 and 6 and extend these back along what is currently an unused taxi road south of the main building to end near the footbridge. These will each be long enough to hold a SET set. There is a further idea to extend these further and link with western platforms 12 and 13 but as stated that would involve removing the southern access ramp and big changes to the roof.

 

[90019]

Funny how we have different views. Perhaps that's because I've only been when the escalators are working.

I use Waverley Steps pretty frequently (though a bit less so in the last couple of months), and most of the time there is at least one escalator not working.
They're also so painfully slow that it's considerably quicker to just walk up the stairs.

 

[Altnabreac]

I agree that it's confusing and busy, but depressing is a word I would've used to describe Waverley ten years ago.

For me there's nothing more depressing than getting on at Haymarket when all the seats have been taken at Waverley.

I think the main work waiting to be done is the extension of platforms 5 and 6, reaĺly no more than sidings at the moment, into the wasted space where the old taxi rank is. They'll be terminating rather than through however I'm sure?

I wish they'd find a more productive use for that bit of tarmac where the short stay car park used to be by the Calton Road exit. A few market stalls on a Friday isn't really it.

I thought there was a plan to demolish the ramp and turn the reconfigured area into another through road? Even without this 2 extra Easten Bays will be a great help and even if not fully used to start with they will be in future. I hope they will be long enough to take a 10 car IEP so that the problem of East Coast workings laying over in a through road is sorted.

Uhm... do you use the same Waverley that I use? There's nothing depressing about it - the only thing I can think of that needs some work is probably a good cleaning of the waiting room walls and ceiling (it would be great to see that artwork in its full glory) and possibly some new furniture.

I believe the current buildings by platform 12 (the CS lounge) will be replaced as part of the platform works as well.

The current planned work is to extend three platforms: 5, 6 and 12.

As already mentioned 5 and 6 are the east facing bays that are little more than headshunt sidings at present between platforms 4 and 7 to the south east of the station. They will both be extended all the way down the old taxi road to around where the lift is to the overbridge / where the taxi pick up point used to be. They will both be long enough to take IEPs so London - Edinburgh services can terminate in them without blocking one of the through platforms.

Platform 12, the southernmost west facing bay will be extended eastwards by demolishing the old Scotrail First Class Lounge and BTP buildings. It will terminate around the bottom of the ramp just before the escalator to the bridge, leaving level access to platforms 7 and 11 available from the main concourse past the foot of the escalator.

Platform 12 would be able to take 8 x 23m trains leaving only Platforms 13 and 18 out of the west facing bays as too short to accommodate the new Glasgow - Edinburgh stock.

You can see some of this confirmed here:

Improving capacity by creating space for longer trains

Ten-carriage trains are being introduced on Scotland’s East Coast routes, and eight-carriage trains on the Edinburgh to Glasgow route via Falkirk. To accommodate these longer, high-capacity trains, we’ll be extending platforms 5, 6 and 12. This work is due to start in July 2016 and to be completed by December 2017.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/6403.aspx

But I have also had it explained to me by a reliable source.

In future if required you could link the new platforms 5 and 6 to platform 12 and an extended platform 13 by demolishing the ramp but it wouldn't actually add that much extra capacity and would make connections trickier as platforms 6, 7, 11 and 12 would no longer have level access from the rest of the station and you would need to rebuild the mezzanine access to the station to reflect this extra passenger flow.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Some further digging has found the actual planning applications submitted to Edinburgh City Council here a couple of weeks ago:
https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.go...s.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=NXADCLEWJ4E00

And proving that reliable sources don't know everything the platform location plan here shows that the escalator will be being relocated slightly:
https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.go..._LBC-03__PROPOSED_PLATFROM_LAYOUT-3222315.pdf

Otherwise the plan is pretty much as I described above.

The document also gives explicit platform lengths for the 3 new platforms:
Platform 5 278m
Platform 6 278m
Platform 12 196m

So Platform 12 can comfortably take a 184m long 8 car AT200 and 5 and 6 will take a 260m long 10 car IEP.

 

[sheff1]

On Topic, I think the modernisation work as has been done is fine although fail to see how millions of pounds and 18 months of disruption to replace the Historic Waverley Steps with banks of cheep chinese escalaters that never work is progress?
Id have just built the new lifts, put a roof over the old steps, cleaned up the stonework and put some new lighting and CIS in there.

Every time I have used Waverley since the upgrade (at least once a month) the escalators have been working and have prevented me arriving on Princes St gasping for breath . Lifts would not be able to cope with the volume of people using that exit.

They're also so painfully slow that it's considerably quicker to just walk up the stairs.

I agree they are very slow. Even so, at my age, it is not considerably quicker to walk up the steps !

 

[PaulLothian]

Some further digging has found the actual planning applications submitted to Edinburgh City Council here a couple of weeks ago:
https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.go...s.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=NXADCLEWJ4E00

Following the link (very interesting stuff there) shows this:
http://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov...-04__PROPOSED_FRANGIBLE_PLATFORMS-3222321.pdf

Can anyone advise about the concept and purpose of a 'Frangible Platform'? New one for me!

 

[jopsuk]

Following the link (very interesting stuff there) shows this:
http://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov...-04__PROPOSED_FRANGIBLE_PLATFORMS-3222321.pdf

Can anyone advise about the concept and purpose of a 'Frangible Platform'? New one for me!

Looking a where it is (ie beyond the buffer stops) it'll be an energy absorbing section designed to break if a train comes in far too fast

 

[PaulLothian]

Following the link (very interesting stuff there) shows this:
http://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov...-04__PROPOSED_FRANGIBLE_PLATFORMS-3222321.pdf

Can anyone advise about the concept and purpose of a 'Frangible Platform'? New one for me!

Have now answered my own question!
Page 57 here: http://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/standards/GIGN7616 Iss 2.pdf

Guidance on Interface between Station Platforms, Track and Trains
Page 57 of 84
Appendix B Frangible Decking at Terminal Stations
G B.1 Introduction
G B.1.1 At stations categorised as national hub (Category A) and regional hub (Category B) stations, there are some platform / concourse areas that become particularly congested for short times during peak periods. This is often the case where fully loaded passenger trains arrive at terminal stations within a short period of time and there is congestion whilst queuing to exit automatic ticket gates. In a number of cases to provide additional space for such situations a 'frangible' type of decking over the track forming the slide path behind the buffer stop has been installed (see Figure G 5).
G B.1.2 A frangible type of decking is formed from a number of decking units supported by beams. When impacted by a buffer stop the beams guide the decking units and allow them to move freely and smoothly with the buffer stop. The decking units provide a solid platform surface for people.
G B.1.3 Where this arrangement exists buffer stops are fitted with impact brackets that are capable of applying the impact loads to the decking units. These comprise of fabricated plates welded to the rear flange of the buffer stop structure at the height required to contact with and collect the decking units as they move with the buffer stop.
G B.1.4 GC/RT5033 requires energy absorbing buffer stops to be provided at terminal or bay platforms. The key requirement is that buffer stops are to be designed to arrest the full range of trains between the heaviest and lightest using a track, without risk of serious injury to people on the train. It is important that the performance of the buffer stop is not to be materially affected by the use of a frangible type of decking, so that any greater risk of serious injury to people on the train is avoided.
G B.1.5 A frangible type of decking has only been used at national hub and regional hub stations. It is likely that the use of such a system can only be justified if the safety benefits arising from having increased passenger space are greater than the safety disbenefits arising from the very unlikely event of a train impacting the buffer stop, and subsequently connecting with the frangible decking units. The factors to consider in this justification could include:
a) The safety benefits arising from having increased passenger space.
b) The safety disbenefits arising from the very unlikely event of a train impacting the buffer stop and causing movement of the decking units with passengers still on them.
c) How close the decking units will be to the buffer stop impact bracket. The greater the distance between the buffer stop impact bracket and the nearest decking unit, the less likely it is that the decking units will be affected in the event of a minor buffer stop impact.
d) If access to the area can be limited to only the busiest times, for example by cordoning off the area.

Doesn't look as if the area in question will be lightly used, so I rather hope they can put the other mitigation features into place!

 

[Blindtraveler]

I assume the Eccesse fares will have a new home built for it? On the escalater thing Im with 90019 here. As an asside the 2 16 person lifts that were installed are well used. The escalaters should have been LU/TFL Spec.

The new East Facing bays are great news. Dunno what I think to relocating those escalaters though.

 

[jopsuk]

When is this work projected to start? Presumably moving the escalators is one of the first tasks?

 

[Blindtraveler]

Jul 2016. Wouldnt surprise me if escalater move happened earlier. Are they being moved far?

 

[Altnabreac]

I assume the Eccesse fares will have a new home built for it? On the escalater thing Im with 90019 here. As an asside the 2 16 person lifts that were installed are well used. The escalaters should have been LU/TFL Spec.

The new East Facing bays are great news. Dunno what I think to relocating those escalaters though.

The excess fares can stay as it is underneath the ramp. It's only the southern half of the building where the 1st class lounge was that has to be demolished.

The escalators are moving to be parallel to the Market Street Footbridge with the bottom access being broadly by the front entrance of the main ticket hall. Pretty much where Millie's Cookies is now.

 

[John07]

Every time I have used Waverley since the upgrade (at least once a month) the escalators have been working and have prevented me arriving on Princes St gasping for breath . Lifts would not be able to cope with the volume of people using that exit.

I agree they are very slow. Even so, at my age, it is not considerably quicker to walk up the steps !

It's usually quicker to use the lift.

 

[47271]

Very interesting plans on the CEC Planning Portal, thanks for getting the link.

Part of what is identified as 'Scotrail Offices' on the demolition plan is a rather attractive original conservatory type structure that I hope will be relocated rather than destroyed.

Those escalators (which seem less rickety than the ones on the Waverley Steps, which I agree are often broken down) only went in a year or so ago and now they're about to move them!

I still think that it's a shame that the dead area at the foot of the steps from the Calton Road footbridge can't be used more productively as part of the plans, but that too could be turned into platforms should demand continue to grow.

As an aside on that space, the old short stay car park, up until quite recently you could still drive into and park in the old mailbag handling depot before it was demolished as part of the last set of works. Most of the mechanism and signage was still there around you, quite a museum piece!

 

[najaB]

Part of what is identified as 'Scotrail Offices' on the demolition plan is a rather attractive original conservatory type structure that I hope will be relocated rather than destroyed.

In the application they state that it is not an original building:

Part of the Scotrail First Class Lounge – this is not an original building (Photo 1). The rear of the remaining part of the lounge will be reinstated with a cladding material.

 

[47271]

In the application they state that it is not an original building:

Just got to that doc now and fair enough, if they say so, but it looks like it has some historical significance. It can't be more recent than 1920s by the look of it.

Unlike the building in photo 3, Waverley really will be the better for the driving of a railway line through that!

 

[edwin_m]

Following the link (very interesting stuff there) shows this:
http://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov...-04__PROPOSED_FRANGIBLE_PLATFORMS-3222321.pdf

Can anyone advise about the concept and purpose of a 'Frangible Platform'? New one for me!

I'm getting "document unavailable" on that one.

Is a "Frangible Platform" something that allows the buffer stop to slide back into the platform if a train hits it? If so there are some at St Pancras and Manchester Piccadilly.

 

[me123]

Does anyone know if there is plans to upgrade Edinburgh waverly? I use that station often and its so depressing. They upgraded haymartket along the road and the station is an absolute pleasure to use.

Huh?

It's anything but depressing. It's got period charm. It's now much more light and airy than it was before all the work. You seem to have missed it, but it's been rare that there's not been at least some work going on at Waverleyin the last 10 years, probably because it's such a large station. And it's still ongoing - I need not repeat the platform extension works above.

It's busy, but that applies to any major rail station. People seem to find it confusing (I don't, but it's a common claim). But otherwise I do not understand why you think it would need a major refurbishment. I really don't think Haymarket is all that much better than Waverley.

 

[najaB]

I'm getting "document unavailable" on that one.

Is a "Frangible Platform" something that allows the buffer stop to slide back into the platform if a train hits it? If so there are some at St Pancras and Manchester Piccadilly.

Use the link in Altnabreac's post, all the documents are linked from there. Yes, the frangible platform allows shorter buffer overruns by using energy absorbing rather than solid platform construction. Similar to the use of EMAS runway overruns to provide the necessary safe stopping area when there isn't enough room for full-length runway overruns.

 

[306024]

Huh?

It's anything but depressing. It's got period charm. It's now much more light and airy than it was before all the work. You seem to have missed it, but it's been rare that there's not been at least some work going on at Waverleyin the last 10 years, probably because it's such a large station. And it's still ongoing - I need not repeat the platform extension works above.

It's busy, but that applies to any major rail station. People seem to find it confusing (I don't, but it's a common claim). But otherwise I do not understand why you think it would need a major refurbishment. I really don't think Haymarket is all that much better than Waverley.

A fine station. After a long journey from London you feel you have arrived somewhere really significant. Sure it is big and takes some navigating, but that is part of the appeal.

Operationally it is interesting with the mix of services, and it has one of the best waiting rooms anywhere - the Halfway House, halfway up the stairs on the castle side.

 

[HowardGWR]

A fine station. After a long journey from London you feel you have arrived somewhere really significant. Sure it is big and takes some navigating, but that is part of the appeal.

Operationally it is interesting with the mix of services, and it has one of the best waiting rooms anywhere - the Halfway House, halfway up the stairs on the castle side.

I agree. I haven't been there for 40 years, but remember that feeling of having arrived in a foreign country (I certainly could not understand a word they were saying, but I expect the same would have applied in Newcastle).

We took tea in the Waverley Hotel (note spelling OP ) - very pleasant.

 

[jopsuk]

Use the link in Altnabreac's post, all the documents are linked from there. Yes, the frangible platform allows shorter buffer overruns by using energy absorbing rather than solid platform construction. Similar to the use of EMAS runway overruns to provide the necessary safe stopping area when there isn't enough room for full-length runway overruns.

EMAS is more like sand drags on sidings (or on escape slips on steep roads)- areas that are otherwise unused. The Frangible Platforms are dual role- both energy absorbing AND more circulation space