Eireann looking to offload Mk3 intercity coaches

[Woody]

"State railway company Iarnrod Eireann is to sell off dozens of trains left languishing in a railway 'graveyard' in Dublin.

The last of the iconic 80s orange and black intercity trains are to disappear forever after the company said yesterday it was hoping to sell or lease them. They are likely to end up in the UK.

The rail company is seeking offers to buy or lease 82 Mark III passenger coaches built between 1984 and 1986."

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...offload-iconic-intercity-trains-14918542.html

Opportunity knocks I think for some "value for money TOC.Certainly Xcountry could do worse than replacing its dreadful Voyager fleet with re-bogied Irish Mk3s.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Finally something official. It seems for a while now there have only been rumours and speculation about what might happen to them.

Shame there is no money or inclination to reserve some for future hourly Enterprise services

 

[mrcheek]

does anybody have any links to pictures of these, for those of us who arent familiar with Irish railways?

also, the article seems kinda vague. are they talking about carriages only, or are they selling off locos as well?

 

[MCR247]

They aren't HST coaches, they worked with loads of locos I think, often 081s?

 

[455driver]

They are mark 3 coaches and worked with generator vans. The coaches would need new bogies and elecrical systems altering to make them compatible with our ETS supply, all done at the same time as a heavy refurbishment, oops I mean "refresh".
Nothing that can't be done if there is the will!

Watch politics get in the way and these coaches end up in New Zealand or somewhere.

Am I the only one that thinks how sad it is that we will (hopefully) be buying back coaches we built for Ireland after they have been withdrawn!

Is there any reason that mark 3s cannot be mounted on B4 (or any other) bogie rather than build more BT10s.

 

[Csalem]

does anybody have any links to pictures of these, for those of us who arent familiar with Irish railways?

also, the article seems kinda vague. are they talking about carriages only, or are they selling off locos as well?

Some pictures of the carriages, along with Mark 2s, when they were in service can be found here:
http://www.railsceneireland.fotopic.net/c1192170.html

And some more recent shots of them stored here:
Dundalk:
http://www.railsceneireland.fotopic.net/p65415986.html

North Wall in Dublin:
http://www.railsceneireland.fotopic.net/p63483201.html

And Waterford:
http://www.railsceneireland.fotopic.net/p66027948.html

There are also some in Inchicore Works in Dublin. It is just the carriages for sale, so far.

 

[jopsuk]

It seems to me that they wouldn't go the effort of putting them on the market (as opposed to just scrapping them) if they hadn't already had some level of serious approach- bureaucracy would then require that they are offered on the open market. There's also not too many places that high platform, relatively narrow bodied stock is suitable- obviously as mentioned there's been the mark 2s that were bought and VERY heavily refurbed by NZ.

So, wonder who's been been fishing? They do, of course, come with powered plug doors.

 

[route:oxford]

It seems to me that they wouldn't go the effort of putting them on the market (as opposed to just scrapping them) if they hadn't already had some level of serious approach- bureaucracy would then require that they are offered on the open market. There's also not too many places that high platform, relatively narrow bodied stock is suitable- obviously as mentioned there's been the mark 2s that were bought and VERY heavily refurbed by NZ.

So, wonder who's been been fishing? They do, of course, come with powered plug doors.

You can be sure that someone is interested in them. I'd put money on DB Regio with First being a close 2nd.

I suspect there may be the potential for getting the stock at a heavily discounted price *if* the purchaser were to express an interest in having the stock rebuilt/refurbished and new bogies manufactured in Eire.

 

[jopsuk]

What would First be after them for- conversion to HST trailers to lengthen their fleet? Lounge and Seated cars for the Scotrail sleepers? I know about the DB Regio/Chiltern possible interest.

 

[route:oxford]

What would First be after them for- conversion to HST trailers to lengthen their fleet? Lounge and Seated cars for the Scotrail sleepers? I know about the DB Regio/Chiltern possible interest.

Pure speculation on my part, but I was thinking that as *First Group* already own a dozen Class 43 locos outright...

Purchasing 48 of these coaches to be made up into 2+8 sets and equipping them with SDO during the re-fit/re-wire/re-furbish/re-bogie would give them their own set of go-almost-anywhere 125mph stock that was extremely versatile, very leasable and good for another decade.

DB Regio are probably thinking the same thing (if they can obtain the traction)...

Perhaps East Coast too... Whenever I board the "Highland Chieftan" on a Sunday from an unmanned station in Scotland, there is always a member of Network Rail staff present. Must cost a fortune to send staff around the Scottish Countryside by car simply to dispatch slam-door stock (if that's what they are there to do).

 

[yorksrob]

You can be sure that someone is interested in them. I'd put money on DB Regio with First being a close 2nd.

I suspect there may be the potential for getting the stock at a heavily discounted price *if* the purchaser were to express an interest in having the stock rebuilt/refurbished and new bogies manufactured in Eire.

Yes indeed. It's interesting that our own powers that be have made sure that we don't have a unified railway industry to take adventage of such an offer.

 

[jopsuk]

There is something a little embarrassing, mind, about the British mainland system buying up Ireland's cast offs

 

[route:oxford]

There is something a little embarrassing, mind, about the British mainland system buying up Ireland's cast offs

Oh no, it's worse than that.

It's probably going to be the German government buying Irelands cast-offs to meet the needs of the British mainland system.

 

[caliwag]

Anyone know if they have captive toilets?

 

[Newportmuscles]

No, the toilets are the same bog standard straight to the track

 

[455driver]

Pure speculation on my part, but I was thinking that as *First Group* already own a dozen Class 43 locos outright...

First already own 5 complete (2+8 ) HSTs

 

[route:oxford]

First already own 5 complete (2+8 ) HSTs

I wasn't sure about the rolling stock and obtained the details of the power-cars from the 125 Group website which lists...

43092, 43093, 43094, 43097, 43098, 43122, 4153, 43154, 43155, 43158, 43194, 43198

As being owned outright by First.

Ah well, maybe they'd be interested in sponsoring a bid and refurbish of 8 as part of a larger bid by DB Regio.

 

[Polarbear]

As much as I would like to see the IE MK3's re-used, I do wonder how much scope there is for their use in the UK?

Yes, I know there are many services that are overcrowded, but off the top of my head, I can't think of many instances where the MK3's could be used as a direct replacement for such services.

You could convert them to HST stock, but that depends on whether there are enough spare power cars available to complete the sandwich! Also, there are 82 vehicles up for sale, which works out at around 9 x 9 car sets, not a huge amount to go round.

If not converted to HST stock, there's the issue of motive power. With the 90's, you're limited to 110mph which would cause all sorts of problems on the east coast. Realistically, it's the same with the 67's as at 125mph, they're a tad heavy on the fuel!

Having said all that, maybe form them into 6 car rakes with a DVT at one end, a 67 at the other & stick them on some of the longer cross country runs? 13 sets & some spare vehicles, together with the 5 HST's should sort out mots of XC's capacity woes.

 

[jopsuk]

DB would be interested in them for Chiltern- they have plans involving 67+DVT sets similar to the WSMR sets, though I believe they were/are going to fit powered doors to the chiltern sets. There's already a DVT in Chiltern colours, fitted to work with 67s

 

[Polarbear]

True, but if memory serves me right, Chiltern have access to enough MK3's to run the proposed hourly London - Birmingham service, (through DB Regio).

The IE MK3's do have the advantage of power operated doors which would save the cost of converting UK MK3's.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

You could use them with 90s on the Birmingham to Edinburgh / Glasgow run to release the 221s; the speed differential wouldn't be too much of a problem because you could effectively loop them to allow the faster 390s past at Crewe, Preston or Carlisle for example.

 

[Nightrider]

Pity they couldn,t be used to turn the Belfast/Dublin route into an hourly service each way

 

[mumrar]

No, the toilets are the same bog standard straight to the track

Bog standard! I'm guessing that was unintentional

 

[route:oxford]

Have there been any announcements concerning expressions of interest re: the sale?

 

[Csalem]

Not that I've heard. Chiltern seem to be modifying their own Mark 3s so probably do not need ours.

 

[williamn]

According to the Railway Magazine they are now conisdering them for use on an enhanced Dublin / Belfast service.

 

[jamesontheroad]

At least one mk. 3 generator van has been refurbished and repainted in Enterprise colours, and was on test in a DeDeitrich Enterprise set last month. Regardless of supplementing the existing Enterprise fleet with mk. 3s for hourly service, I believe the plan is to use the generator vans to increase the power supply and therefore engine reliability.

As I've said before, although a mixed fleet might be a bit of an issue, I think the way forward might be to use one half of the fleet for a dedicated "North-West Enterprise" - Dublin - Belfast - Derry at least twice a day, slotted in around the existing Enterprise to create an hourly or clockface timetable. Even with the new roads, Dublin - Derry is a stinker of a trip and the PSO plane service is a joke.

Hell, if anyone's going to take that seriously, then Belfast - Dublin - Cork should be revisited. After all, that drive takes the best part of a day and the flight is now operated by these terrible little commuter props!

 

[daikilo]

At least one mk. 3 generator van has been refurbished and repainted in Enterprise colours, and was on test in a DeDeitrich Enterprise set last month. Regardless of supplementing the existing Enterprise fleet with mk. 3s for hourly service, I believe the plan is to use the generator vans to increase the power supply and therefore engine reliability.

As I've said before, although a mixed fleet might be a bit of an issue, I think the way forward might be to use one half of the fleet for a dedicated "North-West Enterprise" - Dublin - Belfast - Derry at least twice a day, slotted in around the existing Enterprise to create an hourly or clockface timetable. Even with the new roads, Dublin - Derry is a stinker of a trip and the PSO plane service is a joke.

Hell, if anyone's going to take that seriously, then Belfast - Dublin - Cork should be revisited. After all, that drive takes the best part of a day and the flight is now operated by these terrible little commuter props!

Totally agree. UK rail has shown that if frequency is increased to hourly or better and with competitive timings then traffic will switch from air/road to rail. The stock is available, it would be sad not to use it.

 

[Csalem]

Them being used on an hourly service has been around for about two years now. The problem is it requires funding from two governments. One of them has seen its budget cut, and the other has nearly bankrupted the country so it is unlikely to happen for a while.

 

[route:oxford]

Them being used on an hourly service has been around for about two years now. The problem is it requires funding from two governments. One of them has seen its budget cut, and the other has nearly bankrupted the country so it is unlikely to happen for a while.

Any scope for an Open-Access operator in Ireland?