Electrification in the NorthWest

Discussion in 'Infrastructure & Stations' started by 43106, 19 Apr 2015.

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  1. 43106

    43106 Member

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    In about September 2012, the Government announced a £9bn investment program of electrification. Some of the lines mentioned were...
    1) Preston to Blackpool North,
    2) Preston to Manchester Piccadilly, and...
    3) Liverpool to Manchester Piccadilly

    I assumed that 2) was via Bolton & Chorley and 3) was via Warrington Central.
    However, on a recent trip between Edinburgh & Liverpool, I had a few surprises. I saw a 350 (livery unknown, as it was obscured by a 156) at Waverley on 13/4/12. I assumed it was extra stock for the Edinburgh - Bathgate - Glasgow route. (I also saw a 92 there, which was new to me). The line from Springs Branch Junction had been wired up, AND I saw a 319 on the line, though my Preston - Liverpool train was a 156.
    On the way back on 15/4/15, it was still a 156 to Preston, but this time, I noticed a 350 doing a TPE Manchester - Glasgow service. I then discovered this service now goes via Wigan. I did try to look at Euxton Junction to see if the Chorley line had been wired up, but I missed it. I caught a TPE 350 to Edinburgh, which I found preferable to the 'normal' 175. This confirmed that the 350 I saw 2 days earlier was in TPE livery.
    This exercise raises a couple of questions, namely...
    1) Is the Manchester - Bolton - Chorley - Euxton line to be (or has been) electrified?
    2) The electrification between Manchester & Wigan (route unknown) and Springs Branch were never announced at the time. Is/was there a reason for this?
    3) The Manchester - Scotland TPE services go via Wigan, rather than Chorley. Is this going to be permanent, or will they switch back via Chorley?
    4) The 350's used by TPE - were they cascaded from another TOC, or were they obtained separately?
    Sorry this s a bit long-winded. I created this thread, as It didn't fully fit into the Manchester to Preston and/or Liverpool threads.
     
  2. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    They were obtained separately - see this thread if you want the blow-by-blow details.
     
  3. telstarbox

    telstarbox Established Member

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    The TPE 350s are brand new.
     
  4. kjhskj75

    kjhskj75 Member

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    No, 3 is via Chat Moss (Newton-le-Willows)
    Will be but not yet.
    It follows the Chat Moss route to Golborne, then via WCML.
    They will switch back
     
    Last edited: 19 Apr 2015
  5. snowball

    snowball Established Member

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    The rumours have swung back and forth over whether they will switch back. The latest is that they will. I think there was something about it in the specs for the next franchise period?

    Yes. Bridge alterations are in progress. The current official date for completion of electrification is the end of 2016 though there are rumours it will not be met.

    Different sections of route in the NW were authorised at different times - ask the politicians. Anything authorised before the change of government in 2010 was put on hold and restarted a year or so later. Liverpool to Wigan via St Helens is recently completed along with Liverpool to Earlestown. Bolton to Wigan is likely in a few years but is possibly not yet fully authorised. Manchester to Wigan via Atherton not yet on the cards.
     
  6. QueensCurve

    QueensCurve Established Member

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    It is really a series of infill electrfications: Deansgate to Parkside, Earlstown to Edgehill, Huyton to Springs Branch Jn, Deansgate to Euxton and Preston to Blackpool.

    The route via Bolton is the last part to be wired since it is the most difficult (Farnworth tunnels).

    I would expect them to revert to the Chorley/Bolton route when electrified.

    10 units were procured specifically for this route.
     
  7. 43106

    43106 Member

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    Thanks for your responses. A few errors on my part...
    - it was 185's that did Manchester - Scotland services, not 175's,
    - for some reason, I still have it in my mind that there are 2 main line services between Liverpool and Manchester that are electric - I was wrong - the line through Warrington Central isn't,
    - although I didn't mention it, I was assuming that the TPE re-routing via Wigan was using the line through Hindley. I know of Golborne Junction, but I DIDN'T know there was a triangular set of junctions there. That explains a lot.
    As a side issue, the 350's are more suited to the WCML (especially Shap & Beattock) than the 185's - they're also 1 coach bigger, which helps a lot. Their acceleration is good too, especially compared to a 185, HST or a 390.
    Thanks all.
     
  8. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Established Member

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    The junction at Parkside towards Lowton/Golborne Jns at the start of the North Union Railway is one of the oldest in the country, and dates from 1832.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Union_Railway

    The initial Liverpool-Manchester electrification was announced by Andrew Adonis in 2009 and specifically mentioned the connection with the WCML at Golborne to allow electric working from Manchester to Scotland.
    Further announcements added Manchester-Bolton-Euxton Jn, Huyton-Wigan and Preston-Blackpool (and more recently Lostock-Wigan and Oxenholme-Windermere).
    Liverpool-Manchester is now operational, Liverpool-Wigan started services recently, Victoria goes live very soon.
    The Bolton route is being electrified now and should be finished by Dec 2016.
     
  9. DJH1971

    DJH1971 Established Member

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    Although there are rumours that the Bolton route could be delayed by 12 months.
     
  10. Joseph_Locke

    Joseph_Locke Established Member

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    Rumours from whom? I'd hope that I'd heard that one, and I haven't?
     
  11. snowball

    snowball Established Member

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    Probably based on this. That's what my similar remark was based on.

    Of course it's possible that the only real fact behind that is the delayed approval for the Ordsall Chord.
     
    Last edited: 20 Apr 2015
  12. Starmill

    Starmill Established Member

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    Neither a 185 or a 350 are suited - at all - to Manchester to Glasgow or Edinburgh. Where did you get that notion from!? Also, if a 390's acceleration curve is below a 350s at any point, it can't be by much and probably isn't for long!
     
  13. Joseph_Locke

    Joseph_Locke Established Member

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    Phase 4* (via Bolton) is still on course for Dec 2016 - just because CS5 has gone back that doesn't mean all the schemes within it will as well. Chord, Phase 3 and Phase 5 will almost certainly miss Dec 2016 now but each of those is late for a different reason.

    * as in JTI and Electrification
     
  14. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Established Member

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    I suppose thoughts now turn to what to do with an electrified Manchester-Bolton-Preston route without the Blackpool extension for a spell during 2017.
    At first sight, only the Hazel Grove-Preston service could go electric (plus the return of the Manchester-Scotland TPE service).
    Some innovative solutions involving changing at Preston will emerge I expect, as mooted for Liverpool. ;)
    There should be plenty of 319s by then.
     
    Last edited: 20 Apr 2015
  15. bluenoxid

    bluenoxid Established Member

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    Potentially run some of the Blackpools fast through the corridor and split other services. When will the Wigan to Lostock extension be electrified (and could that diesel service extend from Wigan to Blackpool.
     
  16. Senex

    Senex Established Member

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    The 350s and the 185s are both what the Germans would call Regional Express designs rather than Inter-City designs. They are fine for fast outer-suburban services out of London, but altogether the wrong stock for long-distance high-speed work like Manchester to Scotland (over distances significantly greater than London to Manchester). The Siemens product for that sort of work would be some variant of the ICE3 design. (But British politicians and civil servants would never let us mere provincials have anything like that for non-London services, regardless of how strong the market was.)
     
  17. thealexweb

    thealexweb Member

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    185 cars are 23m long, 350/4s are only 20m long. A 350/4 only has 17 more seats than a 185. Their has not really improved the overcrowding situation. Written by someone who frequently travels between Edinburgh and Bolton.
     
    Last edited: 20 Apr 2015
  18. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    I *believe* that it's been posted in other threads that LM's 350s are quicker than 390s to around 90mph or so but that the Pendolino then catches and passes it. I may be mis-remembering though.
     
  19. DJH1971

    DJH1971 Established Member

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    That's what I was referring to.
     
  20. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    It was this thread that I had read it in.
     
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