Electrification North-West

[Whistler40145]

WatcherZero, if Bolton to Salford Crescent is closed, then only two other routes are available without a reversal, these being via Eccles or Atherton. It would also be possible to run fast to Warrington Bank Quay & reverse. Another lengthy diversion from Manchester Piccadilly/Stockport is via Altrincham & the WCML.


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[Xenophon PCDGS]

Have not recent improvements been carried out on the Atherton line ?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Platform extensions have, I'm not sure if they touched any other infratsructure though.

 

[WatcherZero]

WatcherZero, if Bolton to Salford Crescent is closed, then only two other routes are available without a reversal, these being via Eccles or Atherton. It would also be possible to run fast to Warrington Bank Quay & reverse. Another lengthy diversion from Manchester Piccadilly/Stockport is via Altrincham & the WCML.


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Rochdale would be taking a share of diversions with reversals too I imagine, the alternate diversion would be just too long.

 

[John55]

There are two tunnels at Farnworth. The southbound is a double track tunnel which was a bit small for larger rolling stock so a second single track tunnel was built alongside. This is the current northbound tunnel. To me this suggests there is no need to close both tunnels simultaneously to achieve electrification clearances. In particular the southbound tunnel should be fairly straightforward as the centre of even a fairly small double track tunnel should have pretty good clearances for the OHLE unless something has been done to the tunnel to reduce clearances at some time.

The northbound tunnel will be much more of a problem as being single track there will no doubt be all sorts of issues lowering track, removal and replacement of invert, sorting out drainage etc etc.

So apart from Network Rail's callous disregard for the travelling public why will it be necessary to blockage both lines at the same time? Temporary provision of single line working (slewing between tunnels as work progresses) should allow a proportion of the service to continue via the normal route with some diversions via Atherton or Golborne Jcn.

Both the Atherton and Golborne diversions are not very good as they involve very slow single lead junctions onto the WCML and at Wigan NW requires use of platform 1 in both directions.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Both the Atherton and Golborne diversions are not very good as they involve very slow single lead junctions onto the WCML and at Wigan NW requires use of platform 1 in both directions.

Is Golbourne Junction single lead?

Anyway, Wigan NW shouldn't be too bad as AFAIK nothing is booked to use p1 - only those running on / off the Hindley line. The only trouble would be crossing over the Up to the Down.

 

[John55]

Is Golbourne Junction single lead?

Anyway, Wigan NW shouldn't be too bad as AFAIK nothing is booked to use p1 - only those running on / off the Hindley line. The only trouble would be crossing over the Up to the Down.

The only trouble is crossing over the up to the down! Exactly

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The only trouble is crossing over the up to the down! Exactly

There's only 3tph plus freight southbound there though - it shouldn't be a massive, massive issue to plan.

 

[John55]

There's only 3tph plus freight southbound there though - it shouldn't be a massive, massive issue to plan.

Indeed but if you don't need to do it don't do it. It is only a short time since NR spent a fair sum to take out the crossing moves at the south end of Wigan from the terminal platforms towards St Helens and Liverpool so it is clearly undesirable.

I am not sure how well the WCML timetable works with significant numbers of 75mph DMUs but the NR position on Liverpool-Wigan-Preston services has for some time been only 1 per hour until 100mph trains are available.

 

[Railman01]

I presume that during the Bolton to Salford Crescent blockade, services to Preston will be diverted via Eccles?


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Presumably the scotch services will already be running using the Chat Moss, WCML, Wigan route anyway. The Vic, Picc, Airport to Preston and the North will run via the Atherton line and Chat Moss route. After that it's anybody's guess. The sure thing being bus replacement from Bolton to Manchester. Hopefully Northern and TPE will be putting on shuttle services between Bolton and Wigan, Preston and Clitheroe.

 

[Whistler40145]

I expect the replacement buses will be all stations & a limited stop between Bolton & Manchester?

During the Bolton to Euxton Jn blockade, it might be quicker for a bus shuttle to operate from Chorley to Wigan than Chorley to Bolton/Manchester?


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[callum112233]

Platform extensions have, I'm not sure if they touched any other infratsructure though.

There was some track renewal work back in october for about 10 days between Wigan and Manchester. Not sure which parts were renewed, though i'm sare they did a stretch in the Walkden area because there was once a rough stretch of track there. I think it was probably old jointed track.

 

[Whistler40145]

How long will it take Network Rail to connect the wiring at e.g. Euxton Junction from the Manchester line?

I presume that any work done will take place during the night?


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[Whistler40145]

Has Network Rail recently installed a OHLE Mast at Huyton Junction?

If yes, how is the work progressing on the Chat Moss line?

Also, is the current closure of the Huyton to Wigan line for OHLE preparation work?


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[John55]

Has Network Rail recently installed a OHLE Mast at Huyton Junction?

If yes, how is the work progressing on the Chat Moss line?

Also, is the current closure of the Huyton to Wigan line for OHLE preparation work?


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No, NR has not installed an OHLE mast at Huyton Junction (unless they took it away before lunchtime today!).

However I did notice the first complete mast base between Newton le Willows and Kenyon Junction this afternoon with many others in various states of construction in the area.

Yes, lots of bridges in various states of demolition and rebuilding.

 

[Whistler40145]

Oops, sorry. Another 'Senior Moment'!


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[Whistler40145]

Will the power provided from the OHLE be sufficient to allow Pendolinos to work under their own power on diversionary routes e.g. Liverpool Lime Street to Warrington Bank Quay via Earlestown, Preston to Crewe via Eccles & Bolton or Manchester Piccadilly to Warrington Bank Quay via Eccles?

Also, will pairs of 86/6s or 90s be permitted to run from Garston FLT to Crewe via Manchester Piccadilly if the route via Runcorn is shut?


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[John55]

Will the power provided from the OHLE be sufficient to allow Pendolinos to work under their own power on diversionary routes e.g. Liverpool Lime Street to Warrington Bank Quay via Earlestown, Preston to Crewe via Eccles & Bolton or Manchester Piccadilly to Warrington Bank Quay via Eccles?

Also, will pairs of 86/6s or 90s be permitted to run from Garston FLT to Crewe via Manchester Piccadilly if the route via Runcorn is shut?


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One of the justifications for electrifying the L&M route was to allow diversions so I should hope so!

More seriously Network Rail are doing a lot of work on the power supplies for the 25kV network in the North West in the near future including a new grid supply point which is just south of Preston I believe. As part of this upgrade I have seen a reference to fitting Auto-Transformer style power supply to the L&M as part of phase 2 (Liverpool - Earlestown/Wigan so there should be plenty of power available.

Rather more important for Ditton than Garston as most intermodals go from there these days.

 

[Whistler40145]

Thanks for that. So we can look forward to Pendolinos working under their own power when diverted.


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[WatcherZero]

Phase 1 and 2, Manchester-Liverpool it will use the existing WCML power supply, for the Manchester-Preston stretch a new power supply will be built at Lostock.

 

[John55]

Phase 1 and 2, Manchester-Liverpool it will use the existing WCML power supply, for the Manchester-Preston stretch a new power supply will be built at Lostock.

My understanding is that the existing WCML supply is being completely redone as part of the Euston - Carlisle auto-transformer upgrade . The new supply point at Lostock (thank you) is part of that upgrade and the installation/conversion of the L&M to AT will follow the WCML change-over.

From the CP4 Delivery Plan update of March 2012;

"The programme will support the North West electrification programme by provision of the required AT infrastructure from Weaver Junction to Wigan Springs Branch Junction along the WCML and from Winwick Junction to Liverpool Edge Hill."

 

[pemma]

Are platforms 13 and 14 at Piccadilly long enough for Pendolinos?

And if the crews will need knowledge of Chat Moss for diversionary purposes, will there be a limited number of services booked that way for crew knowledge?

 

[table38]

Are platforms 13 and 14 at Piccadilly long enough for Pendolinos?

Quail says "13 carriages" so I guess so!

 

[John55]

Are platforms 13 and 14 at Piccadilly long enough for Pendolinos?

And if the crews will need knowledge of Chat Moss for diversionary purposes, will there be a limited number of services booked that way for crew knowledge?

I've done Lime St to Crewe via Newton le Willows and Piccadilly on a Pendolino often enough so no problems there.

 

[Whistler40145]

AFAIK when Liverpool to Euston Pendolinos are dragged via either Warrington Central or Chat Moss, they don't call at Manchester Piccadilly?


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[Whistler40145]

Where are the Feeder Stations located on the WCML & associated lines in the North West?


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[LNW-GW Joint]

NHowever I did notice the first complete mast base between Newton le Willows and Kenyon Junction this afternoon with many others in various states of construction in the area.

I counted about 20 mast bases today, complete with bolts and screws ready for the masts, followed by a series of "rabbit holes" in the embankments which no doubt are the first sign of excavation under way.
They start a little way east of Parkside Jn, and extend to the east of the short tunnel/bridge in Kenyon Cutting, more on the north side than the south.

Nothing new visible across Chat Moss itself, but I'm not sure what to look for here as the OLE structures are said to be different over the Moss.
The Moss is probably significantly drier than it was in 1829, with all the clearance and drainage works since, to say nothing of the M62.

At St Helens Junction the old Clock Face line overbridge has finally been removed, but there is still a footbridge over the line at this point.

 

[Whistler40145]

I did witness whilst on the 20:41 Liverpool Lime Street to Wigan NW via St Helens Junction service that work was taking place near Parkside Junction


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[ole man]

I was watching Granada Reports tonight and it looks like behind the presenters is a viaduct that looks like it's had a new portal installed, where is it?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

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