Electrostar GTR cascade

[ScotGG]

So many last minute changes seem to be happening with this scheme - late 2017, then late 2016, then some said it was off, then back on, then 377/1 to 377/5s. Any idea what led to this change and whether it changes timeframes?

 

[Class 466]

36 377/1s won't come over.

23 377/5s move over- starting with 377501-508 on Thursday.

Potential for some 377/1s later on to fill the 13 unit gap between the original offer and the current one.

 

[physics34]

Surely Southern could find better use for the 5s being Dual Voltage..... and also the doors separating 1st class.

 

[agerj001]

I think thats a good plan TBH. Not much livery change needed.

 

[Class 466]

Surely Southern could find better use for the 5s being Dual Voltage..... and also the doors separating 1st class.

Southern only need about 10 DV units to cover the MK services as 8 cars. What difference does doors between FC make?

 

[158722]

Surely Southern could find better use for the 5s being Dual Voltage..... and also the doors separating 1st class.

Perhaps there is some surprise announcement on the way - like sticking the wires up from Ashford to Hastings or to Uckfield...!

 

[SF-02]

13 less than planned for Southeastern then. And given 8 is a like for like swap its not going to do much for Metro overcrowding. Lewisham station is not going to cope for long without all trains being 8 on Vic routes and 10/12 on others.

 

[physics34]

Southern only need about 10 DV units to cover the MK services as 8 cars. What difference does doors between FC make?

Southern 1st class punters often moan that there are no doors separating first and standard class on the older units.

 

[tsr]

Regarding 377s when the guard makes announcements I often struggle to hear from the coach they are being made is this normally the case ?

I've noticed this as well. I would imagine that this is to prevent feedback from occurring when the guard is using the PA.

Perfectly normal. It is indeed to reduce feedback. However, this also has the side effect of not letting the conductor (or OBS) know that the PA has the fault where the chime sounds but no speech audio is fed through from that particular handset, which is an occasional problem. Pros and cons seem to crop up with every such system!

 

[Class 466]

13 less than planned for Southeastern then. And given 8 is a like for like swap its not going to do much for Metro overcrowding. Lewisham station is not going to cope for long without all trains being 8 on Vic routes and 10/12 on others.

8 in time for this timetable change. There will be more before may and changes will be made on an STP basis.

Only 13 less if no other units come over from SN.

 

[adc82140]

A bit of idle thinking here...

Are the Class 379s DV capable? I know they were ordered for AC only routes, but would it be just a case of fitting pickup shoes to the fleet, or would something more major be required? If it's an easy job they'll be available in the next 5 years and could increase capacity for one of the electrostar operators south of the Thames.

 

[agerj001]

8 in time for this timetable change. There will be more before may and changes will be made on an STP basis.

Only 13 less if no other units come over from SN.

Next big surprise, 20 class 365s coming down to SE

 

[387star]

Explains why no seat covers changed

Southeastern don't go for AstroTurf or whatever that green material is

 

[JonathanH]

So 377/1s and 5s to southeastern? That leaves southern short.

Don't 700s go onto London Bridge to Horsham services in the near future once the 319s are replaced on Thameslink? That frees up 377s. To all intents and purposes, it is the switch of services between Southern and Thameslink that has brought the DOO issue to the fore.

 

[Sunset route]

Don't 700s go onto London Bridge to Horsham services in the near future once the 319s are replaced on Thameslink? That frees up 377s. To all intents and purposes, it is the switch of services between Southern and Thameslink that has brought the DOO issue to the fore.

The new berthing sidings at Horsham are virtually ready to go and should be open in the new year and it's our understanding that GTR want to use them as soon as possible since they are paying for them.

 

[atomicdanny]

Next big surprise, 20 class 365s coming down to SE

That's something I'd love to see again - 365s on Southeastern (although before they were with Connex - but better than a 375 anyday - but that's my own opinion )

 

[lookingforit35]

but better than a 375 anyday

Perhaps any day other than a warm summer one, when an air-conditioned journey home is very much appreciated.

 

[physics34]

Don't 700s go onto London Bridge to Horsham services in the near future once the 319s are replaced on Thameslink? That frees up 377s. To all intents and purposes, it is the switch of services between Southern and Thameslink that has brought the DOO issue to the fore.

seeing as the /1s are no longer going to southeastern then yeh southern will have more stock. The London Bridge to Horsham, London Bridge to Brighton, London Bridge to Littlehamptn/East Grinstead 377s will all be there to strengthen metro services as will be the 377/7s which will no longer be needed on the West London Line.

 

[Class377/5]

seeing as the /1s are no longer going to southeastern then yeh southern will be have more stock. The London Bridge to Horsham, London Bridge to Brighton, London Bridge to Littlehamptn/East Grinstead 377s will all be there to strengthen metro services as will be the 377/7s which will no longer be needed on the West London Line.

You assume and you shouldn't assume.

 

[physics34]

You assume and you shouldn't assume.

if you have any more info, please share

 

[Class377/5]

if you have any more info, please share

Well the Thameslink 377s are already on SE duties so the plan is rather than return 6x TL 377 for SN 377 (requiring at least 4 moves) is to keep some TL 377s on SE services and change things later as the SE 377 will all cycle through Selhurst meaning it can be changed over time.

Its a simple soluation to getting the units in the right place at the right time.

 

[physics34]

Well the Thameslink 377s are already on SE duties so the plan is rather than return 6x TL 377 for SN 377 (requiring at least 4 moves) is to keep some TL 377s on SE services and change things later as the SE 377 will all cycle through Selhurst meaning it can be changed over time.

Its a simple soluation to getting the units in the right place at the right time.

ok cool.

 

[ScotGG]

Southeastern gets a TFL takeover blocked and a reduction of trains coming over. Seems about right for the franchise. The DfT do little for it.

 

[Class377/5]

Southeastern gets a TFL takeover blocked and a reduction of trains coming over. Seems about right for the franchise. The DfT do little for it.

Where is the reduction of trains? Can you please supply some info to your claim?

 

[ScotGG]

From Class 466, who works for SE I believe:

"36 377/1s won't come over.

23 377/5s move over- starting with 377501-508 on Thursday."

Possibility of more later but that means trusting the DfT. And very few SE passengers do.

Didn't the Thameslink franchise back in 2014 state that 25 would come over? That went up to 36 once crowding and growth became clear. Now down to 23 confirmed.

 

[Class377/5]

From Class 466, who works for SE I believe:

"36 377/1s won't come over.

23 377/5s move over- starting with 377501-508 on Thursday."

Possibility of more later but that means trusting the DfT. And very few SE passengers do.

Didn't the Thameslink franchise back in 2014 state that 25 would come over? That went up to 36 once crowding and growth became clear. Now down to 23 confirmed.

Well what he states is actually untrue. 501-508 were still Thameslink on Friday's so he's got some facts wrong (or you have misquoted him).

Considering its always been the plan to have 377/5 'transfer' initially anyway so again people are jumping the jump.

Note as well the DfT stated 25x 377 were to move over to SE by December 2017, a year away yet. The 30 odd figure has never been official by the way just insider talk.

And your figure of 23 is not officially confrimed either.

So stop jumping to conclusions all the time based in info you don't actually have.

 

[Class 466]

Just to confirm. 377501-508 transferred from GTR to SE on Sunday. They are now part of the SE fleet and will be rebranded within the coming months. They are maintained by GTR at Selhurst, but are only going to be used on SE routes.

 

[387star]

Just to confirm. 377501-508 transferred from GTR to SE on Sunday. They are now part of the SE fleet and will be rebranded within the coming months. They are maintained by GTR at Selhurst, but are only going to be used on SE routes.

Selhurst is temporary?

When you say rebranded the full works ?

New seat covers ?

 

[Class377/5]

Just to confirm. 377501-508 transferred from GTR to SE on Sunday. They are now part of the SE fleet and will be rebranded within the coming months. They are maintained by GTR at Selhurst, but are only going to be used on SE routes.

For now. Final cascade is dependant on 700s running on Southern routes.

 

[387star]

For now. Final cascade is dependant on 700s running on Southern routes.

So no.more 377 released for a long time then !