Elf and safety gone crazy?

[mailman]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ine-couple-tended-railway-flowers-decade.html

So, I throw this to the unwashed masses...is this yet another example of elf and safety madness or is the station master justified stopping these old codgers from doing the same thing they have been doing for the last decade while a elf a safety assessment is carried out?

Or...is the story bollocks?

Mailman

 

[lyesbkz]

Or...is the story bollocks?

Well it does say 'dailymail.co.uk'

 

[moonrakerz]

Well I am glad to see the H & S brigade doing their job properly !

Apart from this highly dangerous practice of climbing a ladder there are several other extremely dangerous practices here.

"the plants, which hang over six feet off the ground" Many local authorities have removed hanging baskets from their towns due to the large numbers of Council Tax payers who have been killed by these highly dangerous objects falling from on high.
Has a safety analysis been carried out on the types of plants that are used in these planters ? There are number of common "garden" plants which, although looking highly decorative, can be toxic to humans or other types of animal life, either by contact or by ingestion.
Should the lady not be wearing safety glasses ?
Her lightweight brown slip-on shoes would offer no protection whatsoever to her feet if one of these planters (or the ladder !) were to fall.
No safety helmets either..............tut, tut........

I am amazed that this couple have been allowed to get away with this incredibly hazardous activity for so long !!!!!

:roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:

A word to this SWT man - how about sorting out your overbearingly rude staff and cleaning up your act as a RAILWAY operator first - instead of picking on a couple trying to do for nowt what you are incapable of doing !

Still, I suppose it shows complete fairness - treat everyone, passenger or not with the same arrogance.

 

[NSEFAN]

Health and safety is usually a turn of phrase for "we don't want responsibility for looking after you", which is a valid concern for any company to have in this age of "free legal advice". H&SE find the situation particularly frustrating, as it makes them look like a bunch of idiots!

At the bottom of the article, it says that the safety risks are being assessed, so hopefully common sense will prevail.

 

[ex-railwayman]

As has been mentioned, as the couple are pensioners and volunteers and NOT railway staff, how can they fall under the remit of staff procedures and H & S policy.

I didn't see any H&S staff watching me climb up my mini stepladder to change my living room lightbulb yesterday, do you think I've broken any laws......

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.

 

[Domeyhead]

There are two problems at work here, and I don;t blame the station manager for either of them.
1) Firstly the increasingly rigid and inflexible top down operational management used by many companies make the manager personally liable to all kinds of disciplinary action if he fails to carry out rigid instruction to the letter whether it makes sense in a specific situation or not. So why should the poor blocke risk his career over a few hanging baskets
2) H&S itself is usually more relaxed than the ridiculous risk averse interpretations made by distant functions such as HR, who simply adopt a pointless "let's not risk it" approach rather than actually go and read the bloody Act itself.

THe solution to both the above is the introduction of a standard legally binding local waiver whereby an individual can agree to waive both his or her right to claim against another organisation (in this case SWT) in the event of an accident and secondly to provide a small level of indemnity (say £50k) insurance at low cost designed specifically for local low risk actions.

THe above is simple and it is possible. THe only reason nothing happens is because the H&S averse corporate departments causing the problem are so distant from the impact their poor management is having.

....Plus of course the greedy parasitic ambulance chasing compo industry that sustains the current mess.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Well, if nothing else it is a complete non-story. They have been asked so stop using the ladder while safety checks are carried out, this is a legal requirement of firms to ensure the safety of the passengers and staff. Odds are, provided it is safe, they will be allowed to do so again.

Journalists can get on their high horses all they want while sitting in their cushy offices, but regulations like these have stopped a lot of risky practices and probably saved lives.

 

[starrymarkb]

What do Elves have to do with anything?

On a more serious note, the Ambulance chasers are forever hassling our customer services whenever a bus is involved in a fender bender (because usually that is all that has happened, a dent in the bus - no-one hurt but a mass of calls from Personal Injury people)

 

[OuterDistant]

Well it does say 'dailymail.co.uk'

Yep. I stopped reading at that point

 

[Captain Chaos]

The problem isn't H+S.

The problem is the fear of litigation proceedings being made. No company wants to get sued so common sense goes out of the window to protect the company from a claim.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

As has been mentioned, as the couple are pensioners and volunteers and NOT railway staff, how can they fall under the remit of staff procedures and H & S policy.

I didn't see any H&S staff watching me climb up my mini stepladder to change my living room lightbulb yesterday, do you think I've broken any laws......

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.

If you're volunteering for an organisation then the employer must ensure your health and safety, as they would an employee. HASAWA s3&4.


Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

 

[Wyvern]

As has been mentioned, as the couple are pensioners and volunteers and NOT railway staff, how can they fall under the remit of staff procedures and H & S policy.

They are still expected to have permission from the TOC or Network Rail, depending on which part of the station they are working on. Usually there is a some sort of adoption scheme, whereby the adopters (volunteers) have a short safety course, and learn what they can and cannot do.

As an example at Belper, volunteers under the EMT adoption scheme (if there were any) could keep the platform tidy but they couldnt go on the banks to weed them as they are Network Rail territory.

 

[andykn]

The problem isn't H+S.

The problem is the fear of litigation proceedings being made. No company wants to get sued so common sense goes out of the window to protect the company from a claim.

And nowadays the lawyers themselves are afraid of being sued if they are wrong so it's easier for them to say "no".

If you asked a lawyer today about setting up a business carrying people at over 100 mph on narrow metal rails using dangling overhead live cables or live metal rails you'd have no chance getting it approved.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Well, if nothing else it is a complete non-story. They have been asked so stop using the ladder while safety checks are carried out, this is a legal requirement of firms to ensure the safety of the passengers and staff. Odds are, provided it is safe, they will be allowed to do so again....

Ah yes, but in this case, when the company allow them back, the squeeky clean paper can claim a 'moral victory' over the 'evil corporations' who 'defy common sense' and 'have had to back down' over 'the row'. :roll:

 

[GadgetMan]

She said

And when I’m up there I hold the boxes so there is no danger. I only go up three or four times a year

He said

Let us get on with it. It’s perfectly safe. I will stand by the ladder every time Janna goes up there if it makes them happy, but don’t stop us from doing something we love.

Reading between the lines, it sounds as though the new manager has witnessed the ladder being used without it being tethered or held by another person. If that was indeed the case then he does have a point. However a quiet word may have been the easier way to go.

 

[Flamingo]

Why am I reminded of the Falsetto case?

 

[themiller]

If a manager is competent to assess the task as risky he is also competent to carry out the requisite "safety investigation". This means that, in the case of this issue, the manager was either not competent to assess risk or did not want the responsibility of making a decision. If the work is of short duration and infrequent as is suggested here the manager should have let the couple continue and got a formal assessment done before their next visit. The assessment does not have to be written if the risks are minor. Looking at the picture the only improvement in safety would have come from a brief talk about footing the ladder correctly (about 2 minutes max.).

 

[Smudger105e]

But the Working at Height Regulations have to be adhered to, and the seems to be the assumption that the Manager is competent in these Regulations, and all those listed below.

The latest Working At Height Regulations came into force during 2005.

Here is how the legislation will affects the use of ladders.

Essentially the message is clear and precise...

* Ladders are legal and are not banned in the workplace
* Ladders can be used for access, egress and to work from
* If it's right to use a ladder, use the right ladder
* Use the right ladder safely

The use of portable ladders in industry in UK is currently controlled under a number of legal items including:

* Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974
* Construction (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1996
* Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999
* Manual Handling Regulations 1992
* Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) Regulations 1992
* Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations 1998
* Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992

A good read about Working at Heights can be read here...

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg401.pdf

Although I know that a number of Rail Operators have made the decision that ladders can only be used for access and egress, and must not be worked from. If anyone has to work at heights they require that a purpose built platform or portable scaffold is used, and then you need training to use that!

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

I'm at Weymouth often enough and I'm sure there are other people (and me) that can take over. It's not that dangerous, and they could re-enforce the ladder (attach to the side and floor every time climbing here is done before taking it all down afterwards) and re-enforce the plant pots and plants in general.
There are ways around it, and SWT are usually the best at this kind of thing. We could always tweet spam @SW_Trains if things get out of hand!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

We could always tweet spam @SW_Trains if things get out of hand!

What an idiotic suggestion :roll:

 

[Captain Chaos]

I would not suggest tweeting spam to South West Trains. Idiotic suggestion! What could that possibly achieve?