Emergency brake spontaneously being appllied

[TUC]

My daugher was travelling on a Northetn service yesterday and told me it has come to a sudden, sharp halt mid-journey. The guard apologised and said that the 'emergency brake' had spontanously been applied. Does anyone have any thoughts as to the posdible cause? Is it most likely to be a train malfunction or some other reason?

 

[Surreytraveller]

Any number of reasons. Train may have lost interlock (someone leaning on a door maybe), driver may have missed the AWS or DSD, a REC call may have gone out, loss of brake pressure, pass com.

 

[LCC106]

In addition, guard accidentally putting brake handle into emergency or operating compressor speed up switch by accident in the dark...

 

[trainmania100]

Do driver get slap on wrist for going into the emergency brake setting or is there no way of knowing

 

[pompeyfan]

Do driver get slap on wrist for going into the emergency brake setting or is there no way of knowing

Depends on the reason behind the emergency brake being applied, if the safety system (TPWS) trips then that is quite a big incident, if it’s a missed AWS/DSD then it’s a please don’t do it again, on other occasions drivers are actively told to use it during poor railhead conditions if the driver doesn’t believe the train will stop as expected at a signal or station. Stock depending if emergency is applied by driver/guard or passcom there’s no way to over rule it and the train will come to a stand in a bit of a heap.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I have been on trains with a full emergency brake application. It is quite exciting, but only afterwards when you know you have stopped without colliding with anything! That is always the worry-that the driver has seen an obstruction and thrown the emergency brake on! Probably the least likely scenario, but always a worry!

 

[driver9000]

Do driver get slap on wrist for going into the emergency brake setting or is there no way of knowing

The brake is a tool to be used. I have never had any come back from using Emergency.

 

[driver9000]

On the Northern diesel fleet around 19 items are tied into the brake control wire which will apply the brake. It could any one of those things from a Passcomm being pulled, missing a whisper quiet vigilance alarm, coupler pins momentarily losing contact if in multiple, an MCB trip.....numerous causes. It happens from time to time.

An REC being received won't cause a spontaneous brake application..

 

[trainmania100]

The brake is a tool to be used. I have never had any come back from using Emergency.

Thanks I'm always getting penalised in traitn simulator for emergency brake setting , thanks for confirming

 

[pompeyfan]

Thanks I'm always getting penalised in traitn simulator for emergency brake setting , thanks for confirming

It’s not meant to be used willy nilly, braking should be done progressively and smoothly, the driver shouldn’t ever need to use emergency, but it’s there for if the situation calls for it, it is a last resort

 

[driver9000]

Thanks I'm always getting penalised in traitn simulator for emergency brake setting , thanks for confirming

If you're using it regularly then you will be spoken to. As Pompeyfan says it's a last resort.

Work on your technique to avoid having to use it.

 

[thejuggler]

Had similar on a Northern Pacer. Once sorted the guard reminded passengers the red handle in the toilet was not the flush!

Also had an emergency stop when OHL power failed.

 

[Monty]

Thanks I'm always getting penalised in traitn simulator for emergency brake setting , thanks for confirming

However if you are continously resorting to the emergency brake to stop in time at stations and red signals then yes a driver would find themselves with a lot to answer for..

 

[DanDaDriver]

On some stock with “Enhanced” emergency braking, you’re supposed to report it to maintainance control as they get a bit panicky about wheel flats etc.

 

[Llama]

An REC being received won't cause a spontaneous brake application..

It should do if the driver is competent!

 

[dk1]

It should do if the driver is competent!

I'm never sure whether to put it straight into emergency or make a more subtle stop. I've usually done the latter if not in a very busy area.

 

[DanDaDriver]

I'm never sure whether to put it straight into emergency or make a more subtle stop. I've usually done the latter if not in a very busy area.

We were always told straight to emergency, but a lot of people always say they would opt for full service. I suppose you can judge it depending on how fast and where you are.

100mph+ on a curve and I’m zeroing it straight away though!

 

[Dieseldriver]

It should do if the driver is competent!

Its not a spontaneous emergency brake application though, it's a driver initiated emergency brake application.

 

[Dieseldriver]

We were always told straight to emergency, but a lot of people always say they would opt for full service. I suppose you can judge it depending on how fast and where you are.

100mph+ on a curve and I’m zeroing it straight away though!

I've received quite a few RECs and on those occasions I've either been stationary in a platform or barrelling along at a high linespeed! At any high speed I wouldn't mess about, straight into emergency unless I can see an obvious reason why that would be a bad idea.

 

[driver9000]

It should do if the driver is competent!

It won't cause a spontaneous brake application as the OP is describing.

 

[Chrisgr31]

Having spent many years commuting on the Uckfield Line without experiencing an emergency brake application a couple of years ago we went through a phase of lots of them. Initially the train crew blamed them on the passenger alarm being activated and we came to a halt in a number of interesting places, including the fast up line between Norwood Junction and New Cross in the rush hour twice. It wasnt until before were going south and came to a halt before New Cross and the train wouldnt reset that someone seemed to conclude it was an actual fault, and we were all kicked off once we had crawled in there. I believe they then identified there was a fault on the units, guessing they were all the same age so the fault came at about the same time. I have now again had several years with no emergency stops.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Do driver get slap on wrist for going into the emergency brake setting or is there no way of knowing

The only time a driver would get a slap on the wrist, is if a safety system has intervened because the driver has failed to control their train. Otherwise, erring on the side of safety will always be the correct way forward (or to stop!)

 

[Controller1701]

I'm never sure whether to put it straight into emergency or make a more subtle stop. I've usually done the latter if not in a very busy area.

I always thought the clue was in the name, i.e Railway EMERGENCY call.

Paul

 

[dk1]

I always thought the clue was in the name, i.e Railway EMERGENCY call.

Paul

Yeah I get that bit. Doesn't always seem appropriate to end in such a heap. Every incident is different.

 

[Eccles1983]

It's not your place to know what the emergency is when the call comes through.

Failing to put it in emergency is silly. It could be a broken rail ahead of you or a crossing that has failed. The download will condem you if something happens and you didn't throw it all in.

My penneth worth.

 

[bionic]

REC has got to be straight to emergency. I mean, why would you risk it? If you tried to get out of a tunnel and ended up hitting the person who's just walked into it at the other end how would you explain that? Chuck it straight in and ask questions later.

 

[theageofthetra]

REC has got to be straight to emergency. I mean, why would you risk it? If you tried to get out of a tunnel and ended up hitting the person who's just walked into it at the other end how would you explain that? Chuck it straight in and ask questions later.

Absolutely spot on.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Had a 90 mph collision with some stupidly stored sleepers in the 4ft at West Byfleet one morning - a 12 car formation of 8 VEP / 4 REP.

Most violent stop ever - as the brake pipes were sheared off and the units virtually stood on their noses. I really thought we were derailed.

Using considerable care - we got the train moved - partly braked (and isolated) into Woking in about 15 mins at very low speed. In today;s railway the job would have been stopped probably for a couple of hours.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Had a 90 mph collision with some stupidly stored sleepers in the 4ft at West Byfleet one morning - a 12 car formation of 8 VEP / 4 REP.

Most violent stop ever - as the brake pipes were sheared off and the units virtually stood on their noses. I really thought we were derailed.

Using considerable care - we got the train moved - partly braked (and isolated) into Woking in about 15 mins at very low speed. In today;s railway the job would have been stopped probably for a couple of hours.

I had something similar happen on a Gatwick Express not long after they were introduced... up express, charging through Clapham Junction at linespeed ( not so many other trains in the way in those days! ) when all of a sudden it literally ground to a halt within about half its own length. Stood there for a few minutes with fitters running around all over the place before setting off again to Victoria.

Turned out a brake pipe had come apart...

I've also experienced a full emergency stop from 186mph on a TGV Atlantique about half way between Paris Montparnasse and Le Mans back in summer 1992.

 

[Bungle965]

I've also experienced a full emergency stop from 186mph on a TGV Atlantique about half way between Paris Montparnasse and Le Mans back in summer 1992.

I've seen a video on Twitter of a TGV emergency stop, boy they can stop quick.
Sam